SSSW18 Surrenders

[denkimon]

But Is MOON? Hell no, they're no better than the Hegemony they fought for last war.

Um...wut? Can you expand here please?

[Vhalen]

OOC: Authors rights don't exist anymore.

(OOC) Yeah, sorry, I didn't realize that had changed.(/OOC)

Ugh...I demand 3 mil in reps from everyone who's posted in this thread since my last post. For aspirin. My aid slots are open.

[Vhalen]

Now that I had a moment longer to think about it, I should reserve the right to have people forward these shipments. I might be able to singlehandedly rebuild some alliances. Maybe I'll get statues and stuff. That might be cool, except for all the posing. Well, maybe it can be a statue of me having a cool refreshing drink and watching some TV. I think I could probably pose for that without too much trouble.

[Overlord Shinnra]

I will tackle these 1 by 1 and unless you have something new to say I expect you will stfu because this thread has gone on way too long.

MOON requested 600 mill in reps? Yes I did. It was a noob mistake and I realized that after the fact. The fact of the matter is that was how things worked back when the current hegemony was running things and i didn't see a need for change til I saw that there was a better way. Noob mistake yes. Trying to kill their alliance via reps, no.

MOON requested an apology in the white peace terms? Originally yes. We felt them to be dishonorable in their non-nuke peace talks as they agreed to it then went back on it at the last second and came out with nuke propoganda which insisted they had never intended to agree with the non-nuke agreement in the first place. They approached us about the non-nuke agreement, not the other way around. Anywho, we are not bitter about taking the nukes as obviously we kicked the *%&^ out of them but hey when you feel something isn't right you demand justice do you not? Anywho we didn't care enough to keep the apology in there and we offered them regular white peace without it so it really doesn't matter.

What did SSSW18 do to deserve terms? The war was already decided when we offered white peace. The answer we were given when we offered white peace was something along the lines of ... no my guys want more war. When they came to us asking for surrender two days later we go a response along the lines of ... we are not doing anymore damage so I guess we need to ask for peace. This implies that they were in it for the war and the damage not really for defending their allies so if were going to suck up and just fight for the damage they can suck up and take the reps (which they did, there is just the trolls that can't).

You claim to be better then the hegemony? No, I don't. I don't care.

[Decedere]

I will tackle these 1 by 1 and unless you have something new to say I expect you will stfu because this thread has gone on way too long.

MOON requested 600 mill in reps? Yes I did. It was a noob mistake and I realized that after the fact. The fact of the matter is that was how things worked back when the current hegemony was running things and i didn't see a need for change til I saw that there was a better way. Noob mistake yes. Trying to kill their alliance via reps, no.

MOON requested an apology in the white peace terms? Originally yes. We felt them to be dishonorable in their non-nuke peace talks as they agreed to it then went back on it at the last second and came out with nuke propoganda which insisted they had never intended to agree with the non-nuke agreement in the first place. They approached us about the non-nuke agreement, not the other way around. Anywho, we are not bitter about taking the nukes as obviously we kicked the *%&^ out of them but hey when you feel something isn't right you demand justice do you not? Anywho we didn't care enough to keep the apology in there and we offered them regular white peace without it so it really doesn't matter.

What did SSSW18 do to deserve terms? The war was already decided when we offered white peace. The answer we were given when we offered white peace was something along the lines of ... no my guys want more war. When they came to us asking for surrender two days later we go a response along the lines of ... we are not doing anymore damage so I guess we need to ask for peace. This implies that they were in it for the war and the damage not really for defending their allies so if were going to suck up and just fight for the damage they can suck up and take the reps (which they did, there is just the trolls that can't).

You claim to be better then the hegemony? No, I don't. I don't care.

If I remember correctly, MooN didn't really do that much damage, LSR, DT, and BH did. Most of my MooN just laid there. While defneding from three LSR and staying out of anarchy until it got nuclear, still not much was done. This kicking the !@#$ out of us, I didn't see it, at least not by you. But, yes the terms are fair, we turned down the first offer because it was ridiculous, and you did try to get everything you could from it. I also do seem to believe that a SSSW18 nation was hit by MooN before we fired on them.

[Ejayrazz]

Really, this thread reached 22 pages?

Really? REALLY?

[Wu Tang Clan]

SSSW18 fought very bravely, and all those that I fought were great people, and worthy opponents. So kudos to SSSW18 on what was a nice war, and a pleasant war for that matter.

To those of you who want to call DT and MOON out of order on these terms, you may be on to something. Why should losing a war be a bad thing? Because you willing pick your allies and therefore must face the repercussions of decisions made by such allies. SSSW18 was a victim of TPF's actions, no doubt. For that I am truly sorry, but it was their decision and therefore this is their consequence. As for the victors, what we are gaining from this war is in fact, little to what we should be gaining. A no-nuke clause was proposed to MOON and then rejected and though a blunder was unjustified. With careful planning we came to the conclusion that for the damage they caused to us and the others that attacked them the best option was to do tech deals. Trust me, this was under careful consideration as the way SSSW18 fought proved to us that stiff terms were not appropriate. If this is not good enough for all of you attacking us in this thread, then so be it. However, this was good enough for them and good enough for us. It benefits both of us, even though some receive more than others. Sorry, but to the victor goes the spoils, even if the spoils were as minimal as they are.

[Posta0]

never mind its not worth it

Edited May 3, 2009 by Maccers The Great

[mdnss69]

What did SSSW18 do to deserve terms? The war was already decided when we offered white peace. The answer we were given when we offered white peace was something along the lines of ... no my guys want more war. When they came to us asking for surrender two days later we go a response along the lines of ... we are not doing anymore damage so I guess we need to ask for peace. This implies that they were in it for the war and the damage not really for defending their allies so if were going to suck up and just fight for the damage they can suck up and take the reps (which they did, there is just the trolls that can't).

Isn't defending allies all about doing damage to an opponent? There is absolutely no point whatsoever in staying in a war when one is taking damage and not giving any. At that point it turns into a turkey shoot instead of helping an ally.

No matter what spin MOON try and put on this now, they are not going to be able to over this glorified tech raping as easily as they thought. 23 pages of endless rhetoric have shown this.

[denkimon]

No matter what spin MOON try and put on this now, they are not going to be able to over this glorified tech raping as easily as they thought. 23 pages of endless rhetoric have shown this.

What spin, what rhetoric and what raping?

The only spin and rhetoric is coming from the whiners who have no real say in an agreement between several sovereign alliances (not just MOON), and the only tech I see changing hands is being paid for...

So take your faux rage and put it where I recommended several pages back.

[James IV]

Isn't defending allies all about doing damage to an opponent? There is absolutely no point whatsoever in staying in a war when one is taking damage and not giving any. At that point it turns into a turkey shoot instead of helping an ally.

No matter what spin MOON try and put on this now, they are not going to be able to over this glorified tech raping as easily as they thought. 23 pages of endless rhetoric have shown this.

Yes, and damaging opponents will naturally have consequences. When it became clear the outcome in the end, terms were given, and respectfully declined on the part of SSSW18. In the end we worked out mutually beneficial tech deals. Hell, because of this I can get to know SSSW18 more by getting a chance to work with them. It is obvious that MOON made a noob mistake, but they learned from it quick. Some of yall whining about the tech deals are the same people who helped set up the in the "hegemony" first place and I really don't see much moral ground from those people to tell sovereign alliances what they can and can't do.

[BamaBuc]

That's once more than many other alliances have offered it in the past in similar scenarios. I don't get why it's a BS policy, if it is one serving it's alliance well, and the only time it comes into play is during war. At least now I suppose future opponents of DT know what to expect.

You misunderstand. I am not saying that it would be a BS policy if it was real. Not in the slightest. I am saying that it's BS because it's not actually DT policy. I don't know why DT gave SSSW18 these terms instead of white peace (and again I have no problem with these terms), but it wasn't because of a policy of only offering white peace once. I can 100% assure you of that. I just don't understand why Myworld lied and said that this is DT policy.

-Bama

[junkahoolik]

may i ask how do these tech deals work?? because for the moment this looks to me like the higher ns nations of sssw18 will be starved of tech for the next months. thank you.

[WarriorConcept]

may i ask how do these tech deals work?? because for the moment this looks to me like the higher ns nations of sssw18 will be starved of tech for the next months. thank you.

I don't think buying tech will be their top tier's priority for a while.

[Wu Tang Clan]

Seriously guys... you've beaten this dead horse so much it's actually starting to cry. If you have any further questions feel absolutely free to take it up in private in the proper channels. But 24 pages of the same question, comments, and answers is a little ridiculous.

Some people don't like it. We get it. Sorry to upset you.

[junkahoolik]

I don't think buying tech will be their top tier's priority for a while.

i was pretty serious when i asked the question. no irony intended. well, i admit, there was some, but i still mostly want to find out the answer.

[Wu Tang Clan]

may i ask how do these tech deals work?? because for the moment this looks to me like the higher ns nations of sssw18 will be starved of tech for the next months. thank you.

It'll work just like every other tech deal. Currently SSSW18 does have an abundance of small nations to sell tech. And just because they're selling tech to us doesn't mean they can't sell to their own alliance. In fact we encourage it, it will help their alliance rebuild. Also, there are many other alliances/nations selling tech.

[junkahoolik]

It'll work just like every other tech deal. Currently SSSW18 does have an abundance of small nations to sell tech. And just because they're selling tech to us doesn't mean they can't sell to their own alliance. In fact we encourage it, it will help their alliance rebuild. Also, there are many other alliances/nations selling tech.

thank you!!

[MaGneT]

Isn't defending allies all about doing damage to an opponent? There is absolutely no point whatsoever in staying in a war when one is taking damage and not giving any. At that point it turns into a turkey shoot instead of helping an ally.

No matter what spin MOON try and put on this now, they are not going to be able to over this glorified tech raping as easily as they thought. 23 pages of endless rhetoric have shown this.

There is no glorified tech $%&@ here.

MOON was attacked by SSSW18, VA and GRAN, in case you weren't aware. (Then again, that wouldn't surprise me)

You misunderstand. I am not saying that it would be a BS policy if it was real. Not in the slightest. I am saying that it's BS because it's not actually DT policy. I don't know why DT gave SSSW18 these terms instead of white peace (and again I have no problem with these terms), but it wasn't because of a policy of only offering white peace once. I can 100% assure you of that. I just don't understand why Myworld lied and said that this is DT policy.

-Bama

DT was unable to enforce its policy in certain areas. You know this as well as I do. I'm not at liberty to discuss that here, but you know where to find me.

[JWConner]

To those of you who want to call DT and MOON out of order on these terms, you may be on to something. Why should losing a war be a bad thing? Because you willing pick your allies and therefore must face the repercussions of decisions made by such allies. SSSW18 was a victim of TPF's actions, no doubt. For that I am truly sorry, but it was their decision and therefore this is their consequence. As for the victors, what we are gaining from this war is in fact, little to what we should be gaining. A no-nuke clause was proposed to MOON and then rejected and though a blunder was unjustified. With careful planning we came to the conclusion that for the damage they caused to us and the others that attacked them the best option was to do tech deals. Trust me, this was under careful consideration as the way SSSW18 fought proved to us that stiff terms were not appropriate. If this is not good enough for all of you attacking us in this thread, then so be it. However, this was good enough for them and good enough for us. It benefits both of us, even though some receive more than others. Sorry, but to the victor goes the spoils, even if the spoils were as minimal as they are.

To those that aren't aware, no treaty with TPF was enacted in this war between SSSW18 or Veritas Aequitas. SSSW18 enacted their treaty with NPO. Please get that right. I'm sick of seeing people blame TPF for our involvement. It's rather ridiculous.

There is no glorified tech $%&@ here.

MOON was attacked by SSSW18, VA and GRAN, in case you weren't aware. (Then again, that wouldn't surprise me)

DT was unable to enforce its policy in certain areas. You know this as well as I do. I'm not at liberty to discuss that here, but you know where to find me.

First off, MOON attacked NPO. SSSW18 attacked MOON. There's a nice chain of events here. MOON isn't the victim by any means. And as far as policies, if you can't enforce them, drop them. They're not policies if you can't enforce them.

[MaGneT]

First off, MOON attacked NPO. SSSW18 attacked MOON. There's a nice chain of events here. MOON isn't the victim by any means. And as far as policies, if you can't enforce them, drop them. They're not policies if you can't enforce them.

That's comedic.

Can you enforce your policy of defending your allies? No, obviously not right now. But it's still your policy, right? Yes.

[JWConner]

That's comedic.

Can you enforce your policy of defending your allies? No, obviously not right now. But it's still your policy, right? Yes.

um, actually, not quite the same. We signed a white peace surrender until this war is over. I'm fairly certain you knew that. And yes, if we so chose to do so, we could enforce our treaties to back them up. There'd be repercussions, but there's nothing stopping us from doing so. If our allies came to us and said, "We need your help now!" there's a good chance we'd do that. But, that being said, our allies know our surrender terms and we're abiding by that.

Nice try though. You almost (well not really) had a convincing retort.

[MaGneT]

Apologies, I didn't word that properly.

What I'm saying is that we would have liked to have enforced our policies across the board, but in some cases we weren't in the position to do so.

This is obviously difficult to explain without disclosing the details, which I cannot do.

[JWConner]

Apologies, I didn't word that properly.

What I'm saying is that we would have liked to have enforced our policies across the board, but in some cases we weren't in the position to do so.

This is obviously difficult to explain without disclosing the details, which I cannot do.

Well ok then. I guess my response would be you shouldn't claim something is policy, then claim you couldn't uphold it before and that you can't explain why you couldn't uphold your policy, but now miraculously you can uphold the policy.

You have to see how that seems a bit sketchy, to put it mildly.

Edited May 3, 2009 by JWConner

[mhawk]

To those that aren't aware, no treaty with TPF was enacted in this war between SSSW18 or Veritas Aequitas. SSSW18 enacted their treaty with NPO. Please get that right. I'm sick of seeing people blame TPF for our involvement. It's rather ridiculous.

I know, just another victim of TPF evil and ruthlessness...