The IC/OOC line

[Electron Sponge]

I find roleplay and roleplayers creepy and weird. I'll mouth out the words and say the right things so my user on here doesn't catch warnings, but the whole taking on a different persona thing is just kinda strange. When I am posting in the "IC" forum, yep it's the same guy that's posting here and the same guy you'd probably want to buy multiple beers for down at the bar. I find the idea that some of these folks are just pretending to be that much of a !@#$% sort of ridiculous anyway, because come on. There's a point where you just can't pretend any longer and they really are that much of a !@#$%.

Should people take things said to them on the Internet so personally? No they shouldn't. People need to grow thicker skins and realize that the person is only saying it because their target isn't standing in front of them to break their jaw. Where I do draw the line as far as these things go is when it starts interfering with discussions on the forum. If it's so out of hand that it starts taking over perfectly valid threads on other subjects then something needs to be done and that's moderation's function. It's precisely what they are here for.

It's been a sort of evolution for me as far as this stuff goes. I used to be a little more uptight about it but I'm sort of in Ivan's boat as far as the out of game harassment thing goes. I've had threatening and harassing phone calls in the middle of the night because of this stupid game in the past and like him I am also not the type to go passing my number around. I really don't see name calling or even outright mockery as a big problem as long as it isn't interfering with the threads on this forum.

Sure, everyone here is a person. Some of these persons need to stop being such whiny little babies and realize it's a big bad world out there and if someone calling you a bad name on the computer is the worst thing that ever happens to you you'll have led perhaps the most charmed and blessed life ever. Get over it, if someone calls you a mean name call them a mean name back or laugh at them for being an Internet Tough Guy. If it gets to the point where they are being overall disruptive to the community, let the mods know because THAT is what they are here to police, not someone making a joke about some stupid personal crap that you told people about in the first place.

Easy solution: keep your personal stuff to yourself. This isn't Dear Abby and it isn't Facebook. It's a game. I don't need to know anything about your personal life. If it's just someone calling you a mean name and you're so butthurt about it that you need to get MOD JUSTICE? Log out, you !@#$%^&.

Just play the game for Christ's sake. The fact we are even having this discussion is pretty damn sad.

[Diogenes]

I have no pity for those who complain about being insulted or called names. If you're insulted by someone, insult them back, or simply ignore them using the ignore features of IRC and the forums. Fight fire with fire and quit trying to push your morality on the whole of the game's members.

I can understand being pissed off if you're harassed in real life or if your real life property is damaged or destroyed. Nonetheless, those actions should not have IC repercussions. If there's supposedly a separation between IC and OOC, then the two should remain seperate regardless of the circumstances. There are better ways to deal with problems of that nature than an attack on the offender's nation or alliance. Either IC and OOC are seperate, or they aren't.

In summary, a number of people need to grow thicker skin.

[Chunky Monkey]

Do I need to go digging for all my old #goonrush logs? You made several "ooc" attacks in those. Funny to see you making a topic like this.

Please, bring up the past as much as possible. If you and youre allies get to write everything off as IC then I do too. Im an $@! in RL and I know it, I bring that here often because its my personality. I never intended to make myself out to something Im not here or anywhere. So, yes, I welcome you to find those logs and post them. I'd be happy to answer up to anything I've said in the past.

[Paradigm]

I find the idea that some of these folks are just pretending to be that much of a !@#$% sort of ridiculous anyway, because come on. There's a point where you just can't pretend any longer and they really are that much of a !@#$%.

Solid observation

[Qaianna]

*snip of a rather decent set of guidelines; their perfection or lack thereof isn't the point of this post*

Of course, people will never abide by these guidelines. So long as they can gain political capital they will continue to divulge their RL information and then turn around and cry foul when it's used against them, all the while using others' RL info against them. Anything you say or do is a potential weapon against you, and if you haven't got the stomach for it slapping you in the face then you shouldn't be doing it. Take it from me, there are more important things to worry about than some fat git 1500 miles away smashing his keys and gnashing his teeth in rage at you.

Thicker skin, tighter lips.

The other side is, of course, those who would make 'political' capital of abusing that sort of thing, including the emotions of their enemies. And most people do have a certain breaking point, which others for either political gain or just for sadistic glee will try to exploit if at all possible. This, and the fact that ICly the closest we can come to a punch is either a cruise missile, or a '/me headbutts Doitzel' as your last line ever in #vox. (And no, I haven't done this yet. I'm assuming their channel is #vox to begin with..) Thus, sometimes it seems the answer to people who try to grow thicker skin is sharper barbs.

As far as characters are concerned, I think most people who wander in (like, say, me) end up 'playing' themselves. It's only been after a few months that I considered making a CN persona. And it's a little late for that (that pesky rule against multis!). So it's just me.

Problems can arise when one of those sort wanders in and sees..well, 'mudslinging' might be putting it kindly.

..wow, I wandered from IC/OOC to insults and so on. At least I kept a little bit of the original discussion here..

[Lyria]

What I have never got is why does it matter if it is IC/OOC? You get insulted in real life, and can't say "OMG OOC ATTACK I SHOOT UR PIXALS!!". Just because this is the internet, we have to watch people's feelings?

because the original setup of the forums was a distinction between the person tapping the keyboard and the ruler they create. the way the forums have been moderated only suggests that there is a desire to keep it that way.

with that in mind, follow doitzel's post.

[FreddieMercury]

I've never really sat comfortable the distinction between "OOC" and "IC". When I think of "IC" I can only think of epic long text walls on the life as Eron the Dragonslayer or whatnot.

I see most people playing as themselves were this a real situation they were put in, that's probably what I enjoy most about Cybernations. The reason why is that-- Unlike our plastic units in Risk-- our nations are something we really do hold value in. People can pass it off "pixels" but there is a distinction between the thousand pixels I can whip up in word and the pixels I watch accumulate over 3 years.

[Earogema]

I've never really sat comfortable the distinction between "OOC" and "IC". When I think of "IC" I can only think of epic long text walls on the life as Eron the Dragonslayer or whatnot.

I see most people playing as themselves were this a real situation they were put in, that's probably what I enjoy most about Cybernations. The reason why is that-- Unlike our plastic units in Risk-- our nations are something we really do hold value in. People can pass it off "pixels" but there is a distinction between the thousand pixels I can whip up in word and the pixels I watch accumulate over 3 years.

Go to Word.

Copy/Paste your nation info.

Save.

Now your pixels are saved forever! You can even edit them yourself! It's like you're really admin!

[FreddieMercury]

Go to Word.

Copy/Paste your nation info.

Save.

Now your pixels are saved forever! You can even edit them yourself! It's like you're really admin!

Aw, it crashed before I can save. It's not showing up in the document recovery, what should I do?

[Earogema]

Aw, it crashed before I can save. It's not showing up in the document recovery, what should I do?

Do it again!

[Il Impero Romano]

Post that sums it up perfectly

Just play the game for Christ's sake. The fact we are even having this discussion is pretty damn sad.

This. However it is important to note that the only reason this thread is here is because some people use the whole "OCC/IC" thing as a scape goat for in game action. I really cant see how anyone can think that name calling and whatnot actually hurts someones feelings so bad that their inherent sense of justice forces them to take action in a computer game (obviously some things cross the line but I don't think anyone on either side of the coin would dispute that).

Fact is, this discussion has to take place because the practice of getting outrageously offended and using information that's entirely unrelated to this game is common when someone does not have a better way to execute their goals...only if they are in a position to do so. Its here and it will take a lot to get rid of. As has been seen quite a few times, someone who on one hand can be morally outraged over someones words can then turn around and do the same thing them selves. Standards applied to some people for saying one thing are not applied to someone else for saying something very smiler strictly because of their position, proving that no one really gives a rats $@! about this fabled line and its really only a tool.

For example:

1.IRON leadership cited telling someone to "go die", or something to that effect, as part of the reason for (continued) EZI.

2.GGA leadership tells someone they can "eat @#$% and die"

...logic says that whoever made comment no. 2 should be listed as EZI, seeing that this is a clear and present in game danger...

Personally I would find that to be ridiculous, but because of this fabricated line it should be applied just as it was in the past if it is a valid cause for extreme action in an online game.

Think that will happen? No.

Edited April 8, 2009 by Il Impero Romano

[Caliph]

When you have more ns on your side.

This. Exactly this.

The side with more NS has consistantly chosen to make a crusade out of some OOC attacks, yet when someone on their side does them those OOC attacks are completely ignored and written off as "well he just had a bad day" or "he's intitled to 1 OOC attack".

This is a hypicritical stance, but hey, those in power now got there because of adopting double standards.

And politics is all about double standards anyway.

[Bob Janova]

People who give out personal info and then complain when it is used against them need to grow thicker skin. Don't tell anyone on the Internet something that you don't want to come out later. But what really pisses me off about the Bilrow situation is that he used 'OOC attacks' as a reason to destroy two alliances (GOONS and GPA – and the GPA weren't even doing anything) and then goes and makes comparable attacks himself and pulls e-lawyering crap about it.

[JayOvfEnnay]

People who give out personal info and then complain when it is used against them need to grow thicker skin. Don't tell anyone on the Internet something that you don't want to come out later. But what really pisses me off about the Bilrow situation is that he used 'OOC attacks' as a reason to destroy two alliances (GOONS and GPA – and the GPA weren't even doing anything) and then goes and makes comparable attacks himself and pulls e-lawyering crap about it.

I couldn't agree with this post more. I brought it up in an earlier topic and it seemed Bilrow ignored it. Because there's nothing you can really say to defend against this statement. It's pretty much 100% truthful. Edited April 8, 2009 by JayOvfEnnay

[Litha Riddle]

Ok, first of all, name calling is not comparible to wishing death, sexual asault and harrassing phone calls.

If you reacted this badly to every single bit of name calling, you probably need to seek counselling.

I mean, so many posters feel free to post with avatars that actually cause seizures, yet they think calling someone a slut is something to be ashamed of? You all need to get a grip.

[Nintenderek]

The ToS requires you to be 13, if I remember correctly. But 13 is still young, and I know of 13 year old players and yes, some of these "attacks" could screw with them.

I know people who have played CN younger than that. They still play, although they are of course older and past the required age now, but the fact remains.

People who give out personal info and then complain when it is used against them need to grow thicker skin. Don't tell anyone on the Internet something that you don't want to come out later. But what really pisses me off about the Bilrow situation is that he used 'OOC attacks' as a reason to destroy two alliances (GOONS and GPA � and the GPA weren't even doing anything) and then goes and makes comparable attacks himself and pulls e-lawyering crap about it.

I agree with this more than anything else in this topic. I could really care less if people are ooc attacking. Sure, it's annoying, but on IRC, you can just kick ban, and on these forums there are moderators. However, when same person can attack an entire alliance for making an aids joke and then help solidify that alliance's disbandment, and then just a couple months later call someone else a slut and say it's okay because it was IC, there is something wrong.

Ok, first of all, name calling is not comparible to wishing death, sexual asault and harrassing phone calls.

I think they all don't belong in CN.

[Kindom of Goon]

I'm with Sponge, this whole thing is just sad. This is a game not a workplace enviroment, people really need to grow thicker skin and just get on with the game.

That being said, anyone who has participated in destroying an alliance because of OOC stuff is in no position to tell others to grow thicker skin.

[Crohl]

I'm with Sponge, this whole thing is just sad. This is a game not a workplace enviroment, people really need to grow thicker skin and just get on with the game.

That being said, anyone who has participated in destroying an alliance because of OOC stuff is in no position to tell others to grow thicker skin.

Guess Sponge isn't in a position to make his comment. Oh my how fast history is forgotten.

[Nintenderek]

Guess Sponge isn't in a position to make his comment. Oh my how fast history is forgotten.

Yes, but Sponge also doesn't make any of those types of OOC attacks, while a certain someone else we all know complained and then three months later made one.

[Crohl]

Yes, but Sponge also doesn't make any of those types of OOC attacks, while a certain someone else we all know complained and then three months later made one.

I guess we're talking about a different Sponge. Exploiting Moo's real life illness to make IC gains? I'd call that pretty disgusting.

[astronaut jones]

But why is it relevant? Why are people getting their panties in a nod over something somebody said to them over the internet? God forbid they get insulted by someone in reallife. God forbid.

Because they can be offended. All cards should be back on the table, as far as I'm concerned. The people who started this OOC "revolution" of sorts have abused their power to the point where, now, the person who everyone rallied around is running around making OOC attacks against other players and playing it off like it's no big thing.

We had a WAR started by TPF based upon strictly OOC actions that no one brought into the game. Enough is enough.

$%&@ all of them. They've abused their power for too long.

Everything is back in play, they don't deserve to hold those cards any more.

[Electron Sponge]

I guess we're talking about a different Sponge. Exploiting Moo's real life illness to make IC gains? I'd call that pretty disgusting.

Oh $%&@ you Crohl, I did no such thing.

[Nintenderek]

I guess we're talking about a different Sponge. Exploiting Moo's real life illness to make IC gains? I'd call that pretty disgusting.

I have not heard of Sponge doing this, but I can say this. I've been on the opposite side of him and the same side as him now. I can assure you he makes no such comments.

[Crohl]

Oh $%&@ you Crohl, I did no such thing.

Did I hit a nerve sponge? I could log dump all the garbage with you and Moldavi, and other backroom trash, but what's the use. Most of us have already seen it. If Moo feels like sharing them he can, but I respect him too much to do that here. You are just as hypocritical as you claim others to be.

[Electron Sponge]

Did I hit a nerve sponge? I could log dump all the garbage with you and Moldavi, and other backroom trash, but what's the use. Most of us have already seen it. If Moo feels like sharing them he can, but I respect him too much to do that here. You are just as hypocritical as you claim others to be.

Yeah, what's the use indeed. Most people who aren't kool aid drinking idiots would see right through it and realize that you were pulling a stunt that is pretty much what this thread is all about - taking the smallest, most minor stuff and blowing it up into a drama bomb to use for your own in-game benefit just because something from outside the game happens to be mentioned in the periphery. That's exactly what happened there and the fact that you guys haven't been able to make any mileage out of it since the threat of NPO and its buddies curbstomping someone over it has ended is very telling. That's not for lack of effort on your parts though. Go ahead and continue to paint me as a hypocrite though, you're wasting your time. I've been remarkably consistent and that's a good reason why most people like me. You guys haven't and that's why you're shedding friends like a longhair cat sheds fur.

By the way, you're the one who's bringing this crap up in a public forum. Who's exploiting what, again?