Regarding the Brown Team

[Lennox]

I have made my opinions clear. Read my original posts before it turned into twist words and meaningless posts. NSO is trying to override any disagreement it seems. Desouza, before you go accusing me of dodging questions, it rather hard to have a debate and reply to everyone when it's 4v1 or 5v1. I've replied where I felt replies were most warranted.

You admitted yourself your original posts were incorrect because of your ignorance. While I see you trolling, I still see nothing being accomplished. Most of your posts are baseless, and simply are ineffective. Once you feel like having a decent conversation, let me know. I'm sure as an ally we can have a respectful conversation.

[Kindom of Goon]

Theres little point in making assumptions or speculating about what might happen, actions speak louder than words so lets just wait and see what happens.

I'm confident everyone here wants the best for Brown, which can only be a good thing in the long term.

[Coloradia]

Where have I said I lied? Where have I said I was not speaking for others in that post?

I spoke out originally for my own beliefs that this was not the best choice, poorly timed, and could have been better handled in general. Along with the fact that this seems to push Amber Accords out of the way. I have since been supported by several people, and I know from my previous time in brown alliances of the general feeling towards an alliance that is 2 weeks old and starting a MDP bloc.

[Mussolandia]

It is indeed ironic that the man who speaks for others has been left entirely on his own.

[Coloradia]

You admitted yourself your original posts were incorrect because of your ignorance. While I see you trolling, I still see nothing being accomplished. Most of your posts are baseless, and simply are ineffective. Once you feel like having a decent conversation, let me know. I'm sure as an ally we can have a respectful conversation.

I have admitted to nothing being incorrect. The only ignorance I have had is the fact that where I thought I was debating an NSO member last night, it turns out it was Ivan himself.

[Cairna]

Where have I said I lied? Where have I said I was not speaking for others in that post?

I spoke out originally for my own beliefs that this was not the best choice, poorly timed, and could have been better handled in general. Along with the fact that this seems to push Amber Accords out of the way. I have since been supported by several people, and I know from my previous time in brown alliances of the general feeling towards an alliance that is 2 weeks old and starting a MDP bloc.

A fact, and a speculation on what seems to be don't go all to well together.

[Ivan Moldavi]

Theres little point in making assumptions or speculating about what might happen, actions speak louder than words so lets just wait and see what happens.

I'm confident everyone here wants the best for Brown, which can only be a good thing in the long term.

Indeed. I hope to prove my detractors incorrect.

[Platinum]

Congratulations NSO.

[Lennox]

Where have I said I lied? Where have I said I was not speaking for others in that post?

I spoke out originally for my own beliefs that this was not the best choice, poorly timed, and could have been better handled in general. Along with the fact that this seems to push Amber Accords out of the way. I have since been supported by several people, and I know from my previous time in brown alliances of the general feeling towards an alliance that is 2 weeks old and starting a MDP bloc.

What is this sentiment you speak of?

[Coloradia]

I would hope the same.

This conversation would be done and over with if after my first two posts NSO said "Well, we appreciate your opinion."

That would be free speech. I would be done. Instead Ivan went after me in his reply. Why would I stop after that?

I did not claim NSO was doing anything fishy, I stated that that was the impression given off. Is that a crime? It appears so if it is against NSO.

[Ivan Moldavi]

I would hope the same.

This conversation would be done and over with if after my first two posts NSO said "Well, we appreciate your opinion."

That would be free speech. I would be done. Instead Ivan went after me in his reply. Why would I stop after that?

I did not claim NSO was doing anything fishy, I stated that that was the impression given off. Is that a crime? It appears so if it is against NSO.

I don't appreciate your opinion. Period.

I believe your opinion to be based on some fantasy that you somehow "know" what is best for Brown eventhough you apparently have never actually done anything to push for its betterment, at least nothing noticeable.

If you want to hide behind some definition of "free speech" then you must also accept the consequences of what you speak.

I don't give a damn what "impression" you get from what we and Carpe Diem have done here. Nothing you have stated is relevant, factual or helpful in regards to helping the Brown team grow.

[Coloradia]

What is this sentiment you speak of?

A two week old alliance that when founded was half expected to be in war almost immediately. And had given off the impression that Amber Accords was not for them. Then starts an MDP bloc. Brown really doesn't do anything that would lead to war. The most controversial brown alliance is NSO. Who in brown would then need defense the most? NSO.

That is suspiscious. I have since heard it stated that NSO is considering AA. I hope they do sign. To go for an MDP bloc so soon is suspiscious. And the fact that NSO claims to want to being brown unity is pointless. Brown was unified.

[Gabe Logan]

Yawn. It's natural for anyone to have their suspicions as to long term goals of the NSO. Ivan led a great and powerful alliance and is well known, respected, feared, disliked, and more in these halls. Add the blend of other well known and experienced members the NSO has at our table, and suddenly people are afraid of a 100 man army based on what they know of past events in other alliances and things that having nothing to do with the NSO.

There are those who seek to ally to us because they predict we will become a superpower. There are those who seek to destroy us for the same reasons. There are those that just think we're pretty cool and like hanging with us. Some want to point fingers about baseless claims that have no merit.

He said, she said, who gives a ? If you think you know of the NSO plans for the long term, then you know more than we do. For now, we have short to mid-term goals and those include a strengthening of the Brown sphere and continuing to shore up our internal programs and grow. We happen to be smart enough to know Planet Bob can be vicious and we choose to be as strong as we can for our size....no brainer. The game is about politics. If you're a leader and you can't be a politician and a dignitary, you're probably not going very far.

So what? Our core is a group of talented, experienced players who understand the game. Speculate, conjecture, whatever. Take jabs at us or learn from us. I recommend the latter.

[Ivan Moldavi]

A two week old alliance that when founded was half expected to be in war almost immediately. And had given off the impression that Amber Accords was not for them. Then starts an MDP bloc. Brown really doesn't do anything that would lead to war. The most controversial brown alliance is NSO. Who in brown would then need defense the most? NSO.

That is suspiscious. I have since heard it stated that NSO is considering AA. I hope they do sign. To go for an MDP bloc so soon is suspiscious. And the fact that NSO claims to want to being brown unity is pointless. Brown was unified.

It was only half expected to be at war by people with half a mind. Within 48hrs I had a protectorate agreement with STA. I also had assurances from my friends in NPO and Polar that I had their support. I also had 2 million NS and 600 nukes within that two week timeframe. While we are not a global power we can certainly cause a bit of a sting in the $@! of anyone trying to push us around.

You ramble on like a jealous child. Is that it? Are you jealous? I have seen jealousy a number of times here but I don't actually believe it is warranted, yet.

A mutual defense pact is the most basic military treaty in the Cyberverse. I know, I wrote the first one. How is seeking a mutual defense pact on any level, from an alliance 1 day old or 1 year old suspicious? That is just asinine.

[Coloradia]

I don't appreciate your opinion. Period.

I believe your opinion to be based on some fantasy that you somehow "know" what is best for Brown eventhough you apparently have never actually done anything to push for its betterment, at least nothing noticeable.

If you want to hide behind some definition of "free speech" then you must also accept the consequences of what you speak.

I don't give a damn what "impression" you get from what we and Carpe Diem have done here. Nothing you have stated is relevant, factual or helpful in regards to helping the Brown team grow.

I do not claim to know what is best for brown, nor do I know that a God exsts. I believe God exists though, and in the same way I believe that I should act when I see something I do not think to be best for brown. I do not know what is best, but it is still possible to notice something awry.

Ok then, what are the consequences? Being threatened with war?

My opinions have been relevant, of course not factual, I would have to have access to your head ot know whether it is truly for the reasons I have shown it could be, Helpful? Who knows, if NSO got into a war a month from now and brown alliance hadn't signed. Then yes it would be helpful.

[Lennox]

A two week old alliance that when founded was half expected to be in war almost immediately. And had given off the impression that Amber Accords was not for them. Then starts an MDP bloc. Brown really doesn't do anything that would lead to war. The most controversial brown alliance is NSO. Who in brown would then need defense the most? NSO.

That is suspiscious. I have since heard it stated that NSO is considering AA. I hope they do sign. To go for an MDP bloc so soon is suspiscious. And the fact that NSO claims to want to being brown unity is pointless. Brown was unified.

We actually are involved in Amber Accords. We were told you did not have to sign to be a part of it. Already our nations have signed up on Amber Accord boards (hosted by our friends in Carpe Diem) to be placed into trade circles. We've also begun coordinating efforts to have some NSO trade circle organizers help out with Amber Accords as the staffing there is very small at the moment.

As you are suggesting we are desperate for defense, I suggest you rethink that. By this you are implying we are trying to a slew of treaties to surround ourselves with protection. You are far from right. We seek to sign as few treaties as possible, as it amounts to nothing more than tangling up the already vast MDP web. We chose who we treaty with very selectively. So far we have been extremely impressed by brown, and wish to unify it as a team; not as single treaties.

[Lennox]

I do not claim to know what is best for brown, nor do I know that a God exsts. I believe God exists though, and in the same way I believe that I should act when I see something I do not think to be best for brown. I do not know what is best, but it is still possible to notice something awry.

So because you can't tell right from wrong, you decide to get upset?

[youwish959]

The great one, seriously why are you still offering your opinions? They are obviously not needed, not appreciated, not listened to, not valued, and only shared among cowards.

Edited March 20, 2009 by youwish959

[Coloradia]

1.You ramble on like a jealous child. Is that it? Are you jealous? I have seen jealousy a number of times here but I don't actually believe it is warranted, yet.

2.A mutual defense pact is the most basic military treaty in the Cyberverse. I know, I wrote the first one. How is seeking a mutual defense pact on any level, from an alliance 1 day old or 1 year old suspicious? That is just asinine.

1. I am not jealous of you in any way, shape, or form. You may be one of the most popular or famous CN players ever, but that is meaningless. Actions are what matter, from what I have seen, my opinion of you is neither good nor bad. Suspiscious of your return, wondering what all is going on in your mind, what your grand plan may be if one exists? Yes, I am suspiscious, and I am willing to bet many are.

2. Are you going to attempt to use the fact that you were around since then as a point to support you?

Seeking an MDP may not be asinine, but for someone to sign it without knowing the other party well, that is asinine. And the majority of brown alliances do not know you well.

[Ivan Moldavi]

I do not claim to know what is best for brown, nor do I know that a God exsts. I believe God exists though, and in the same way I believe that I should act when I see something I do not think to be best for brown. I do not know what is best, but it is still possible to notice something awry.

Ok then, what are the consequences? Being threatened with war?

My opinions have been relevant, of course not factual, I would have to have access to your head ot know whether it is truly for the reasons I have shown it could be, Helpful? Who knows, if NSO got into a war a month from now and brown alliance hadn't signed. Then yes it would be helpful.

Yes, because it would be oh so very helpful for the Brown team to have another semi large alliance obliterated and subjugated? That is one of the stupidest things you could have said.

Mutual defense for the Brown team is a deterrent. The mutual defense pact states clearly that only unwarranted hostile actions are considered. If the NSO causes a war there is no harm to the other Brown alliances. If it is subject to an unwarranted attack then far more than the Pact will be called upon to defend it.

If Carpe Diem is subject to unwarranted attack tomorrow the New Sith Order will stand at her side and I believe Carpe Diem would do the same for us. That is what matters.

[Ivan Moldavi]

1. I am not jealous of you in any way, shape, or form. You may be one of the most popular or famous CN players ever, but that is meaningless. Actions are what matter, from what I have seen, my opinion of you is neither good nor bad. Suspiscious of your return, wondering what all is going on in your mind, what your grand plan may be if one exists? Yes, I am suspiscious, and I am willing to bet many are.

2. Are you going to attempt to use the fact that you were around since then as a point to support you?

Seeking an MDP may not be asinine, but for someone to sign it without knowing the other party well, that is asinine. And the majority of brown alliances do not know you well.

For anyone to claim that they do not "know" me from a treaty impact standpoint is to simply be ignorant of history. If I sign a treaty then it will be honored. Any of my past associates, friends or enemies will attest to that.

[Coloradia]

So because you can't tell right from wrong, you decide to get upset?

I have never said that, your comment is typical of NSO posts I have seen though. Nor am I upset, I disagree with Terra Cotta and I said so, the rest has been me fending off attack after attack from NSO.

The great one, seriously why are you still offering your opinions? They are obviously not needed, not appreciated, not listened to, not valued, and only shared among cowards.

Then stop replying to me, as long as I continue to be attacked I will continue to defend myself.

[Coloradia]

Yes, because it would be oh so very helpful for the Brown team to have another semi large alliance obliterated and subjugated? That is one of the stupidest things you could have said.

Any force attacking NSO would likely be large enough that even with the rest of brown it would not make a difference. At that point, yes. Having one alliance obliterated may be better than an entire sphere. In no way was I stupid to say that.

[youwish959]

Then stop replying to me, as long as I continue to be attacked I will continue to defend myself.

We are not attacking you. We simply told you how you were wrong. Your the one who turned it into attacks with your insinuation that we are all sycophants. I would love for this topic to get back on the right track, as it had potential, but we cannot do so obviously until you leave.

[Coloradia]

We are not attacking you. We simply told you how you were wrong. Your the one who turned it into attacks with your insinuation that we are all sycophants. I would love for this topic to get back on the right track, as it had potential, but we cannot do so obviously until you leave.

I did not insinuate NSO is sychophants, in fact there are people in NSO that I respect. To attack me simply for arguing with Ivan would indicate the attacker is a sychophant however, and so I stated that rather clearly.