Purchase and Sale of "land"

[V The King]

Examples:

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?s...t&p=1324951

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=50930

I don't think I need to explain why this is absolutely wrong, but I will still offer a statement justifying my outrage:

Simply put, those transactions are nonsensical - arbitrary amounts of funds are used to purchase the land. Since government treasury and spending is not kept track of in CNRP, it results in either of the following: the buyer not having to in fact "pay anything" for the land, or the seller using the "funds" he got from selling the land in order to gain IC leverage.

Such transactions also utterly ignore political, social, demographic (and so on) impact on those living in the land - really, NO ONE is going to act like: "Look, our government decided to sell our country to someone else! We don't follow their culture or speak their language, either!" "cool". They will very likely revolt violently instead - due to a plethora of reasons that do not need to be listed.

Lastly, given the trend that has been initiated, soon every country will have an overseas empire because people are selling colossal swathes of land for pretty much nothing - something completely unrealistic and I'd reckon annoying undesirable.

Honestly, I never had much of an issue when people traded away port cities, it never got really abused. But this time, it got preposterous.

Feel free to comment on the issue.

[Sumeragi]

And why I advocate my GDP formula.

Yes, we can't count trades and stuff, but what are we going to do? Let this happen?

[Il Terra Di Agea]

I partially agree to this. The purchase of land on borders, or in the same continent is sort of fine. I don't really care what people do with this, but t seems a bit unfair to new RPers that nation size chunks of land are popping off the map on a regular basis to be sold to other established nations.

That said, I don't give a damn what people do with their land, just let everyone yell "Imperialism" as loud as they can, and wait for the war to break out.

[Gebiv]

I don't see much of a problem. For sums of money, you don't RP being poorer, you get called out. When I got Switzerland, everyone RP'd a money change.

As for the citizens, CNRP isn't really about people RP'ing what would most likely happen RL.

[Generalissimo]

Land sales are entirely acceptable, provided they are to accommodate new nations and players.

[Sumeragi]

Land sales are entirely acceptable, provided they are to accommodate new nations and players.

The problem is the amount of money involved.

[Generalissimo]

The problem is the amount of money involved.

If a new country could never likely afford the land at their nation level, it can assumed the new entity purchased the land with a majority of their financial holdings. Which is why said nation starts at a third world status, all their money was put toward establishment.

[Sumeragi]

If a new country could never likely afford the land at their nation level, it can assumed the new entity purchased the land with a majority of their financial holdings. Which is why said nation starts at a third world status, all their money was put toward establishment.

I assume that new nations start with a clean slate. The purpose of this topic was at how established nations trade land.

[Justinian the Mighty]

I don't think its that weird for one country to have a colony in another continent. Slavorussia controlled half of India for a few months irl, and nobody seemed to complain.

The spending of the money and nobody keeping track is a problem though, but 100 billion here 250billion there is something a lot of countries with stable economies can probably afford. Of course they'd have to make cutbacks in other areas of their budget.

[Centurius]

I don't think its that weird for one country to have a colony in another continent. Slavorussia controlled half of India for a few months irl, and nobody seemed to complain.

The spending of the money and nobody keeping track is a problem though, but 100 billion here 250billion there is something a lot of countries with stable economies can probably afford. Of course they'd have to make cutbacks in other areas of their budget.

Problem is in above examples we are dealing with developing nations rather than established ones

[mykep]

So? Its what they RP'd...let them RP it.

[JerreyRough]

I think people keep forgetting that this is RP and not real-life.

(For the lesser-thinkers, I'm for selling land, akin to Mykep's position)

Edited March 9, 2009 by JerreyRough

[Triyun]

I'm with Viniland on this, I generally disapprove of colonial holdings except if you are willing to call it what it is, a military occupation.

Especially in the case of monarchial rule. Having a bunch of people with nothing in common with you just adore living under monarchical rule from half way around the world is well, stupid.

Edited March 9, 2009 by Triyun

[Lord Frost]

I am a-ok with selling land. It is well within a RPers right to give/sell land they own, and I encourage the practice.

I find this to be a much better thing to do then setting the would-be-sold land aside for new players. Why?

Very few actual "new players" rp long enough. They show up, make a couple posts, then disappear. We end up with what we have now - huge swathes of unclaimed land.

Selling land off, however, hell even just expanding into unclaimed territory, opens up plot and rp for us players who DO stay. Now instead of the same boring posts about the latest technological achievement, we could RP having to keep a colony, development, riots, revolts, construction, etc etc etc. I did it for East Manchuria

We also need to stop claiming protectorates over unclaimed land. This is something that needs to end. People, if your not going to claim the land, then its not yours. Either take it or don't. Frankly, protectorates get in the way of territorial dispute RPs, even some fun minor wars over land two people would claim. Having protectorates over unclaimed land sets the idea that people have power and control over things they don't even own, and that's just plain stupid

[Sargun II]

We also need to stop claiming protectorates over unclaimed land. This is something that needs to end. People, if your not going to claim the land, then its not yours. Either take it or don't. Frankly, protectorates get in the way of territorial dispute RPs, even some fun minor wars over land two people would claim. Having protectorates over unclaimed land sets the idea that people have power and control over things they don't even own, and that's just plain stupid

Perhaps we don't want Neo Japanese idiots claiming our land and would rather reserve it for somebody with an IQ over 85

I lol at your attempt to make this an OOC insult

Edited March 9, 2009 by Sargun

[Lynneth]

Perhaps we don't want Neo Japanese idiots claiming our land and would rather reserve it for somebody with an IQ over 85

That wasn't nice, Sargun D=

Them Neo Japanese have at least an IQ of 95.

[Vasili Markov]

I like the idea of being able to purchase land.

It gives a believable way for a new player to enter the game or an existing player a believable way of obtaining land of an ally or a neutral without having a war. In real life the USA purchased vast tracts of land off the Russians (The Alaska Purchase) , the French (The Louisiana purchase) & The Mexicans (The Gadsden Purchase). So there is more than an adequate amount of real life examples of this to make it a realistic option in my view.

[Ranather]

I still think GDP is vastly overcomplicated and wholly unnecessary for the simpletonia that is CNRP, but the land thing is getting silly, silly money points aside.

[Subtleknifewielder]

I'm with Viniland on this, I generally disapprove of colonial holdings except if you are willing to call it what it is, a military occupation.

Especially in the case of monarchial rule. Having a bunch of people with nothing in common with you just adore living under monarchical rule from half way around the world is well, stupid.

Except he specifically stated it wasn't miltary in nature, that it would be protected by the person he bought it from.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Perhaps we don't want Neo Japanese idiots claiming our land and would rather reserve it for somebody with an IQ over 85

I lol at your attempt to make this an OOC insult

That wasn't nice, Sargun D=

Them Neo Japanese have at least an IQ of 95.

*S!@#$%*s*

I like the idea of being able to purchase land.

It gives a believable way for a new player to enter the game or an existing player a believable way of obtaining land of an ally or a neutral without having a war. In real life the USA purchased vast tracts of land off the Russians (The Alaska Purchase) , the French (The Louisiana purchase) & The Mexicans (The Gadsden Purchase). So there is more than an adequate amount of real life examples of this to make it a realistic option in my view.

^^this. And that's just the USA. I'm sure there are several such examples elsewhere, too.

Edited March 10, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Sargun II]

You're forgetting that those were all hundreds of years ago.

[Subtleknifewielder]

You're forgetting that those were all hundreds of years ago.

Hardly hundreds. Well, maybe a century ago for the most recent--but the point is these things do have precedents.

[Sargun II]

Hardly hundreds. Well, maybe a century ago for the most recent--but the point is these things do have precedents.

None recent.

At all.

[Subtleknifewielder]

None recent.

At all.

Shh, don't say thatso loudly...people might hear you...

[HHAYD]

Some of the RPers, like me, use a money multiplier. For example, I have $10 million in my IG money reserves, and I multiply it by 100x.

We need to set a rule so nations smaller than be won't be running around with like $300 billion inflated cash, and rather, force them to RP money that is close to their infra/tech levels.