Gen Lee Posted February 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Ah, I think I see what you're saying Gen Lee. You're measuring wealth in terms of days of bills you can pay. Indeed using this metric having a smaller expense ratio would be better. However, once you have an epic (relative to your size) warchest then what? Sitting on boatloads of cash for the rest of your CN career is no fun. Big nations continue to buy infra not because it is a good investment, but because there is nothing else to spend it on (and to increase the size of their e-peen). are you saying i have a small e-peen? :jihad: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GearHead Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Well if you want to hear the ratio of a nation smaller than yours, then I'll throw mine out there. Sitting at a mere 4.6k infra, with an infra cost reducing guild (broken atm), and LC swapping, I have the following stats (approximately): Taxes: 4,850,000 Bills: 1,330,000 Difference: 3,520,000 Ratio: 27.42% Looks like I have the smallest e-peen of them all, but the sexiest ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDave Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 To me it seems that the ratios are significantly more favourable to nations who haven't passed the 12 and 15K infra jumps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli73 Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 Yes...but if you already have a war chest that is satisfactory, then only thing that you should worry about is the net income and not this ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskull Posted February 14, 2009 Report Share Posted February 14, 2009 the 12 and 15K infra jumps. Sorry to be pedantic, but there actually is no 12k jump, only 8k and 15k. There did, however, used to be a negative jump (infra upkeep reduction) at 12k, but that went away almost a year ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairman Cao Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 (edited) How meaningful is it to measure war effectiveness in terms of bill-days payable though? If bills were the majority of wartime expenditure then fair enough someone with a low ratio would have the advantage, but in general the costs of daily replacing tanks, aircraft, nukes, navy (?) let alone infra at the end of it all will be so great that the advantage will lie with whoever has the best profit margin relative to their size and therefore has the biggest warchest to begin with. Edit: I should say some compromise between the two, depending on the relative contributions of daily bills and other wartime costs. Edited February 15, 2009 by Chairman Cao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Stukov II Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Sorry to be pedantic, but there actually is no 12k jump, only 8k and 15k. There did, however, used to be a negative jump (infra upkeep reduction) at 12k, but that went away almost a year ago. I'm pretty sure there isn't a 15k jump either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Rupert Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 I'm pretty sure there isn't a 15k jump either. Having just crossed it this evening, yeah there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vladimir Stukov II Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Having just crossed it this evening, yeah there is. Well, nobody take advice from Dr. Dan. The one time I ask him a question and he is wrong. :lol: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Dan Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 Well, nobody take advice from Dr. Dan. The one time I ask him a question and he is wrong. :lol: Yes, please don't ask me questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Count Rupert Posted February 15, 2009 Report Share Posted February 15, 2009 It's not a big jump, but it's there. Infrastructure Purchase Cost:0-19.99 = 500 20-99.99 = 12 X Infra Level + 500 100-199.99 = 15 X Infra Level + 500 200-999.99 = 20 X Infra Level + 500 1000-2999.99 = 25 X Infra Level + 500 3000-3999.99 = 30 X Infra Level + 500 4000-4999.99 = 40 X Infra Level + 500 5000-7999.99 = 60 X Infra Level + 500 8000-14999.99 = 70 X Infra Level + 500 15000-????? = 80 X Infra Level + 500 Infrastructure Upkeep Cost: 20-99.99 = 0.04 X Infra Level + 20 100-199.99 = 0.05 X Infra Level + 20 200-299.99 = 0.06 X Infra Level + 20 300-499.99 = 0.07 X Infra Level + 20 500-699.99 = 0.08 X Infra Level + 20 700-999.99 = 0.09 X Infra Level + 20 1000-1999.99 = 0.11 X Infra Level + 20 2000-2999.99 = 0.13 X Infra Level + 20 3000-3999.99 = 0.15 X Infra Level + 20 4000-4999.99 = 0.17 X Infra Level + 20 5000-7999.99 = 0.1725 X Infra Level + 20 8000-14999.99 = 0.175 X Infra Level + 20 15000-????? = 0.1755 X Infra Level + 20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRCatD Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) Let me try to rephrase what i am getting at here - and im still not sure whether it makes sense so bare with me.So far I don't think anyone has posted a ratio lower then mine, that means that I can save for example a 50 day warchest faster then another nation. If you have the same military wonders/military ability can this make a nation with less of an expense ratio more effective? Now there are some factors that are definitely positives for the large nations like the cost of war equipment compared to warchest total, the advantage of greater population (assuming conventional warfare), and the ability to hit relevent nations and not opposing cellar dwellers, this weighs in favor of a large nation. Both nations would take considerable damage to infra lowering their bill payments. The increase in net income is obvious but you have to weigh the cost of depleting your warchest compared to the benefit of higher collections in the future. This is why I wanted to figure out if there is a point where you can maximize your infra purchase advantages while still keeping your operating expense ratio as low as possible. not sure if im making sense or answering my own theoretical question Consider the case where someone has a worse ratio than you, but makes more money than you. After he made enough extra money than you to pay off for all the money spent on the extra infra, then for every day after that he is collecting more money than you. When war comes, he can simply sell his infra to the level of your infra, and have the same operating expense as you. However, he has saved up more money than you. Edited February 16, 2009 by XRCatD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gen Lee Posted February 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Consider the case where someone has a worse ratio than you, but makes more money than you.After he made enough extra money than you to pay off for all the money spent on the extra infra, then for every day after that he is collecting more money than you. When war comes, he can simply sell his infra to the level of your infra, and have the same operating expense as you. However, he has saved up more money than you. Very true, there are definitely flaws here. But I can't make up for months of not purchasing infra now....so shhh let's pretend I'm right and you guys all wasted your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azaghul Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 In a significant war, military, not bills will make up most of your expenses. Bills are just a good metric because they rise with growth at a slightly more than linear pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenzilla Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 49% or so with 15.7K infra, all economic wonders except mining(only give bounus for Uranium anyway for me) full navy, 25 nukes, 3BRTR with uranium. and yes, the net income do increase significantly with infra...until a point I have not hit yet. Do you have a WRC yet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli73 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 Do you have a WRC yet? This does not affect when Infra buying wall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskull Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Well, not directly, but the WRC hurts your environment by 1 point, which means another border wall, which will cause the wall to come sooner (due to less citizens per infra level). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDave Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 At 15.7K infra and all economic wonders, buying the border wall would remove more income in citizen loss than you would gain from a better environment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raskull Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Excellent point. Indeed at that level buying the border wall would not be profitable. I hadn't thought of that. Nonetheless, my point still stands that the WRC brings the wall closer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Irwin Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 My ration is about 46% at 18700 inf. Keep in mind i maintain an extremely limited military though. I'm still netting 21m so even if my ratio is higher i still net a very nice amount, which means that purchasing things like a navy, nukes, etc... is relatively less expensive. I'm not interested in war whatsoever so there was really no reason for me to stop buying inf. until i hit my wall (it was at about 18,500 inf but somewhere somehow something changed without me knowing and it's now about 19,100). I would recommend at least getting enough inf. so that you can purchase all the economic wonders but after that there is really no point in buying more unless you just want a higher ranking. -Veritas That's interesting. I just read this, and I'd happened to notice earlier tonight the same thing. Part of this is due to low radiation levels, but that is a big change. I was chalking it up as an expired event I forgot about or something, but if you noticed it too, than perhaps there's more going on here. I smell conspiracy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ecoli73 Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 That's interesting. I just read this, and I'd happened to notice earlier tonight the same thing. Part of this is due to low radiation levels, but that is a big change. I was chalking it up as an expired event I forgot about or something, but if you noticed it too, than perhaps there's more going on here. I smell conspiracy! Well, push back the infra wall is good in one regard: donations for huge nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoshuaR Posted February 19, 2009 Report Share Posted February 19, 2009 I suppose I should go figure out how to make better use of my gold... At 46% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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