Nordlandic Haiku

[ochocinco]

You don't happen to be form Norway do you

Uh... no?

[Northrend]

You don't happen to be form Norway do you

Where is this Norway you speak of? I know only of a cold and lonely place called NoRway. Perhaps you mean the province of NoRway.

Edited February 12, 2009 by Northrend

[Captain Flinders]

When you create alliances like NoR, it's no longer just personal life.

What exactly is an "alliance like NoR"? I thought we were talking about a picture/joke you found distasteful.

[ochocinco]

What exactly is an "alliance like NoR"? I thought we were talking about a picture/joke you found distasteful.

I think it's pretty clear what I mean.

[Nintenderek]

The German empire

You no longer reside there

Kindly go away

For Kaiser Martens'

Haiku was very funny

And he earned his peace

I believe your last line is off meter

[Captain Flinders]

I think it's pretty clear what I mean.

I'm not aware of what you mean but if you feel it necessary to avoid the core content of your statements then I'm down with that.

[steodonn]

I think it's pretty clear what I mean.

Oh just say it

And as bad as NoR where they weren't full on Nazis they just had some Nazi members and they did try to get rid and even disbanded over them

[ochocinco]

Oh just say it

And as bad as NoR where they weren't full on Nazis they just had some Nazi members and they did try to get rid and even disbanded over them

He led an alliance chock full of Nazis and had himself photographed being heiled. I'm pretty sure lots of other Nazi-stomps, OOC stomps, etc. have been for much less.

And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped, I just don't think being a Nazi (I don't care what the haiku says) is very forgivable character flaw. If he re-rolls and keeps that crap out of his new character completely, that's fine.

[Captain Flinders]

He led an alliance chock full of Nazis and had himself photographed being heiled. I'm pretty sure lots of other Nazi-stomps, OOC stomps, etc. have been for much less.

And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped, I just don't think being a Nazi (I don't care what the haiku says) is very forgivable character flaw. If he re-rolls and keeps that crap out of his new character completely, that's fine.

Was NoR a Nazi themed alliance or did he role play a Nazi? If so, I could see where the offense may have been. But again, what he does in his private life or what anyone believes outside of CN is none of your business.

[King Srqt]

Which equates to none at all.

I assure you, you are not helping your friends cause.

[steodonn]

And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped, I just don't think being a Nazi (I don't care what the haiku says) is very forgivable character flaw. If he re-rolls and keeps that crap out of his new character completely, that's fine.

See the flaw in your argument is that he isent actually a Nazi .

[deSouza]

Was NoR a Nazi themed alliance or did he role play a Nazi? If so, I could see where the offense may have been. But again, what he does in his private life or what anyone believes outside of CN is none of your business.

I believe what ochocinco is trying to say is that Kaiser Martens Lulzy behavior (IC) in the past has pretty much made him look like a covert nazi trying to spread his ideology, and the spread of such filth is not acceptable. Its not like people tracked down how he looked like and found pictures of him in a nazi-like salutation. He shared those pictures. He issued comments that could easily be interpreted as a very high level of tolerance towards nazism. He knew what he was doing. He apparently changed, and if he changed, he should be welcomed back. Welcoming him back does not mean forgiving or forgetting anything he did, it merely means that the community of planet bob is giving a chance for him to redeem himself and detach himself completely from nazism.

We, as rational human beings, must not tolerate the horror and complete banalization of evil that is the nazi ideology.

[Captain Flinders]

I believe what ochocinco is trying to say is that Kaiser Martens Lulzy behavior (IC) in the past has pretty much made him look like a covert nazi trying to spread his ideology

We, as rational human beings, must not tolerate the horror and complete banalization of evil that is the nazi ideology.

I'm not much worried by appearances. I deal in cold hard fact. Was there ever an instance where (OOC) moderation had to step in or (OOC) someone claimed they were being recruited to a racist ideology by KM?

Edited February 12, 2009 by Captain Flinders

[ochocinco]

We, as rational human beings, must not tolerate the horror and complete banalization of evil that is the nazi ideology.

This is accurate.

[Germanic Republic]

When you create alliances like NoR, it's no longer just personal life.

As far as I know, there was no secret Nazi plan involved with the creation of Nordreich. You can chill out now.

I wasn't technically a PrF government member at the time, but I was the patriarch, and was informed of a certain amount of doings. And *nobody* liked Berserkr88.

We, as rational human beings, must not tolerate the horror and complete banalization of evil that is the nazi ideology.

Oh no, I drew a Hitler mustache on my finger last week as a crude joke to some friends-- Oh the Humanity!

And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped,

You mean NoV.

And yes, I know KM and NoR have already been stomped, I just don't think being a Nazi (I don't care what the haiku says) is very forgivable character flaw. If he re-rolls and keeps that crap out of his new character completely, that's fine.

Martens may correct me if I'm wrong, but Martens is or is roleplaying as a fascist, not a nazi.

[Northrend]

I assure you, you are not helping your friends cause.

Considering I was instrumental in opening negotiations with both TGF and Slayer/TPF about Martens and the situation, I beg to differ. Who do you think gave Martens the funds to get out of bill lock and persuaded him to not delete his nation?

Edited February 12, 2009 by Northrend

[deSouza]

Oh no, I drew a Hitler mustache on my finger last week as a crude joke to some friends-- Oh the Humanity!

I'm not much worried by appearances. I deal in cold hard fact. Was there ever an instance where (OOC) moderation had to step in or (OOC) someone claimed they were being recruited to a racist ideology by KM?

If such instances had been reported, he'd most likely be banned from the game. And i'm pretty sure he knows that.

What we have as cold hard is the fact that stormfront (white nationalist website) members with thousands of posts and proper knowledge of the website claim that they used NoR for recruiting, and a nation state felt bothered with the usage of their national symbols by that alliance due to dubious positioning and their alledged involvement with white supremacism and promotion of such ideas, and the fact that the leader of that alliance shared pictures of him in a nazi salute and issued dubious comments while facing that scenario. Its not like he was sending a message of disapproval to the stormfronters and, although nazi members were supposedly ostracized from the alliance, that kind of attitude only tells them that the promotion of racism will be ok there unless blatantly exposed to the rest of digiterra.

As I already said, we cannot let that sort of thing go unpunished.

I'm not saying that KM will do it all again, I'm saying that what he did was unacceptable then, because it was dangerously tolerant to nazism/white supremacism, and is unacceptable now over the same reasons..

Martens may correct me if I'm wrong, but Martens is or is roleplaying as a fascist, not a nazi.

I hope he corrects you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...ini-855436.html

A pocket dictator and the Manifesto of Race

Racism is often seen as intrinsic to fascism, but the inventor of the ideology, Benito Mussolini, was brought around to the Hitler obsession with race late in his career and after a great deal of arm-twisting.

Jews had lived in Italy for centuries without persecution. The community in Rome, though confined to the historic ghetto area for many centuries, has the longest uninterrupted history of any Jewish community in the world. In Mussolini's Italy, upper middle- class Jews continued to live and prosper without persecution – until 1938.

In that year Mussolini introduced his Manifesto of Race, closely modelled on the Nazi Nuremberg laws, which stripped Jews of their Italian citizenship, the right of Jewish children to go to school and of adults to work in the government or the professions.

Traditional Italian tolerance and/or indifference towards Jews meant that many were sheltered during those years, but after the fall of Rome, when Mussolini moved to the town of Salo on Lake Garda and was set up by the Nazis as the pocket dictator of the Republic of Salo, deportations of Jews to the death camps began in earnest.

And what of Italy's Roma during the grim final years of Mussolini's rule? Some 1.6 million Roma died in Germany and elsewhere during the Holocaust, a proportionately greater genocide than that suffered by the Jews.

The history of their treatment under Mussolini is a subject that contemporary Italian historians have been loath to look into, according to Marco Nieli, president of the Italian Roma organisation Opera Nomadi.

"It's a fact that there were concentration camps for Roma in Italy during the Fascist period, and it's also a fact that thousands of Roma died in them of hunger, cold and over work," he claimed. "Studies are now under way to discover the extent of the suffering that took place."

[ChairmanHal]

Martens, you magnificent !@#$%^&.

After Ragnarök-

Little more than death survives

Yet a path remains

OOC: Are you kidding me, you Rebel Virgina and half of Gramlins will be left over long after the rest of us are confined to back up tapes, trying to decide with Admin who gets to flip the last switch on the server power.

My money is on you.

[Captain Flinders]

If such instances had been reported, he'd most likely be banned from the game. And i'm pretty sure he knows that.

So you're assuming that such things went on right? I mean, there's been no actual instances cited or reported otherwise KM would not be here as you say. Am I reading that correctly?

him in a nazi salute

*Roman salute

Though if you're on that note, you better start having some kinda hate for those who post "o/" on IRC and in alliance announcements.

dangerously tolerant to nazism/white supremacism, and is unacceptable now over the same reasons.

Would you care to show me how KM had been tolerant to such things? Unfortunately this is not something covered by the cybernations wiki

[Germanic Republic]

I hope he corrects you.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...ini-855436.html

What does the Nazis (including the puppet state headed by Benito Mussolini) sending Jewish people to their deaths have to do with Martens & his brand of Fascism?

Benito Mussolini, was brought around to the Hitler obsession with race late in his career and after a great deal of arm-twisting.

And no, he has confirmed what I believed to be true.

[deSouza]

What does the Nazis (including the puppet state headed by Benito Mussolini) sending Jewish people to their deaths have to do with Martens & his brand of Fascism?

Racism, banalization of evil and association with such deeds through an IC persona. Not something we should tolerate. I don't care about what KM roleplays, I have an objection concerning people indirectly making positive remarks towards racist ideologies that led to genocide under lulz banners.

And no, he has confirmed what I believed to be true.

Which is?

So you're assuming that such things went on right? I mean, there's been no actual instances cited or reported otherwise KM would not be here as you say. Am I reading that correctly?

No. I'm not saying that he did it or that he didn't, i'm saying that if those things were reported he would likely have been banned. Read what i say, don't try to conclude anything else from it.

*Roman salute

Though if you're on that note, you better start having some kinda hate for those who post "o/" on IRC and in alliance announcements.

Hailing in IRC is different from hailing IRL. The latter has a bad historical connotation, regardless of the intent you put at it, the IRC salute simply mocks it.

Would you care to show me how KM had been tolerant to such things? Unfortunately this is not something covered by the cybernations wiki

What we have as cold hard is the fact that stormfront (white nationalist website) members with thousands of posts and proper knowledge of the website claim that they used NoR for recruiting, and a nation state felt bothered with the usage of their national symbols by that alliance due to dubious positioning and their alledged involvement with white supremacism and promotion of such ideas, and the fact that the leader of that alliance shared pictures of him in a nazi salute and issued dubious comments while facing that scenario. Its not like he was sending a message of disapproval to the stormfronters and, although nazi members were supposedly ostracized from the alliance, that kind of attitude only tells them that the promotion of racism will be ok there unless blatantly exposed to the rest of digiterra.

As I already said, we cannot let that sort of thing go unpunished.

I'm not saying that KM will do it all again, I'm saying that what he did was unacceptable then, because it was dangerously tolerant to nazism/white supremacism, and is unacceptable now over the same reasons..

[Germanic Republic]

Racism, banalization of evil and association with such deeds through an IC persona. Not something we should tolerate. I don't care about what KM roleplays, I have an objection concerning people indirectly making positive remarks towards racist ideologies that led to genocide under lulz banners.

Congratulations, you made me look up "banalization", and I still can't find a definition.

I don't find any issues with Kaiser Martens' IC persona, nor with NoR's or NoV's.

Which is?

That he is a fascist, and not a nazi.

[Sovyet Gelibolu]

deSouza, I'll kindly ask you to stop bashing the left wing of the communist movement, unless you want me to whup your $@! on IRC again

Regarding the charter, it did not define NoR as a right-wing alliance. It defined it as a Third Way type of alliance which, given its stated opposition to "internationalist communism" is, in our opinion, just as dangerous and just as much of a threat. Then again, everybody on these boards has already figured out that Nordland and Teh Commiez are ideologically and historically incompatible with the exception of a few individuals, so I don't know why we're bothering to argue the point.

[Sumeragi]

I don't have a URL, but I think most people who have been around the block have seen the pictures of KM with his RL comrades who performing "Heil" gestures towards him.

Not funny. Never will be.

You probably didn't notice the photoshopped flag that was in that photo.

Would I be a Nanking-denialist if I wear my IJA replica uniform and stand in from of the Kyokujitsuki?

[thisperson]

I've seen the picture and KM didn't bring that picture to CN nor do I think he intended for anyone in CN to ever see it. What someone does in their personal life outside this game is really none of your business and you should not worry yourself with it.

Except for when it's time to draw up a CB for another beat down, am I correct?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. As has been shown by history, OOC and IC have meshed so far together as to become indistinguishable by most. (Assuming that you believe the hegemonic powers control the masses.)