CNRP OOC Thread

[Uberstein]

You just reminded me of something, why not have a basic military combat thread on showing RPers who know nothing about RPing battles to how to and avoid potential god mods?

Il Terra and I were actually planning to have some wargames soon.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Here is what I am thinking:

Someone writes three versions of the battles. One is realistic and not violating any rules, another one that is harder to find the violation, and the third one as a outrageously filled with rule violations.

OR

We take examples of RPed battle posts, slap them in the "How to RP battles" thread, and to show what to do and what not to do, while highlighting rule violations.

Hmm...either sounds good, though each has a certain amount of work involved. The first,obviously, requires a bit of writing.

The second requires a bit of digging.

Il Terra and I were actually planning to have some wargames soon.

Well, good. I look forward to seeing how they are done.

[Mergerberger II]

GM: In bold are the parts of the advance that are problematic.

Firstly. "The Lübeckians had finally gotten to a position from which they could successfully defend themselves properly against the RSSN invasion, that is to say they have gotten to defensive positions, and filled out most of the holes created by the surprise attack. Lübeck began to fight back against the invaders in such a way that the RSSN soldiers felt threatened, and the invasion became a war."

This is a deliberate RPing of Franz's soldiers, you cannot say that Lubeckian soldiers moved into defensive positions. For all we know, Franz may have charged ahead, retreated or held his defenses in a different way then you had RPed. In addition, while the spy ops may have given you the opportunity to move through the Lubeckian border without an extreme amount of fighting, to have already posted maps and battle plains from where you are on the border is a disregard of Franz's ability to RP this war. You will suffer some casualties that must be accounted for before you would, perhaps move through the rest of Denmark.

Well I believe that I must have been misinformed by Franz's post of incredible vagueness. Perhaps instead of assuming that I am wrong we go to Franz's post, which clearly says that he is taking defensive measures, but says absolutely nothing about where these troops are or what the hell they're doing. Franz could have charged ahead? Right, show me where he did that in his RP response to my initial one. Please point it out where it says "they charged ahead". He says he dispersed the part of his army that is not in the 200,000 right on the border around Jutland. And quite frankly, with massive aerial attacks that he knew nothing about and had no warning about, there is no way that he could still have 200,000 troops.

On top of this, he did not RP his casualties. So how am I supposed to know who is where? The fact that he doesn't tell me where the $%&@ his troops are, coupled with him not telling me how many of his soldiers are still alive, makes this something that is !@#$@#$ impossible to RP without doing what is "godmodding". At least RP'ing specifically. I cannot, I simply cannot RP vaguely. Saying 'my troops attempt to advance' does not give him a chance to respond any more than 'my troops take defensive positions' gives me a chance to respond.

So please, tell me how I am supposed to RP in a way that he can respond and a way that satisfies me that is okay with him not telling me where his troops are, how many are dead, and what the situation is from his side. Tell me.

While the future tense is commendable, saying that Dutch troops are already moving onto islands and being bruised and battered says that your troops were successful through the attack, not allowing any response or repel move from Franz. You may move them onto the beaches and if Franz has troops there then there is the chance and moves to repel you from those positions. Franz, to you, so that this may run smoother, I would appreciate a posting of your command structure, classified of course, of your troop positions so that we can avoid the debate of where exactly your troops are stationed at a given point in time and you can of course move them accordingly.

This part of my post is 100% future tense. Don't say it's 'commendable'. Don't !@#$%^&* me. I have never said anywhere in that paragraph that my troops are moving onto beaches. I have said that this is the PLAN, not what is happening. What I have given is the PLAN if the BATTLE OF LUBECK goes right. And if it doesn't, that plan changes, k?

You must wait for some response from the opposing side before you automatically break through of Franz's defensive lines. While your spy operations were successful, especially that he had RPed massive defensive constructions with the border with Martens, which I believe you inherited through your recent land acquisition. To not stop for skirmishes, is saying that Franz may only have skirmishers from the front lines to his capital. While I do not know at the moment where his troops are stations, considering that his border with Germany is the most hostile, there is likely to be a great deal, if not the massive majority of his troops down there. A surprise attack is effective, but for him to completely lose the ability of fighting with his army in the south is nonsense.

Alright,

a) As for his defenses from Martens, there are several problems with this. First, he has a tiny border with me. You do not automatically get 90% of your weapons on a border that is like 10% of the total southern border, that is not how it works. And beyond this, in his RP of his defenses, he, again, is incredibly vague. Look at what he says in the defense thread:

"To begin with, Lübeck, with the amount of coastline which they are in possession of, including the many islands around the Jutland Peninsula, plus in the Baltic Sea, must have some sort of buffer to ward off potential invaders, therefore, the placement of depth chargers, strongly fortified walls, coastal guns, machine-gun nests and mortars."

Around the majority of Lübeck, the Anti-Aircraft Network was revolutionised, with many guns setup in places like major cities, minor cities, places of strategic importance, and quite a bit on the coastline, to further deter raiders and parachutists. The naturally produced metals could quite easily utilised to make sure that this process would be as seamless as possible.

These are both incredibly vague statements that just say 'near strategic points'. That could mean bloody anything from a field with lots of grain to a mountain pass to a small road to a choke point. I have no idea where these things are and am thus impaired in my endeavor to destroy them or avoid them. And being that vague means that he can put them pretty much wherever the $%&@ he wants, just say it's strategic. He then says 'major cities' and 'minor cities'. What constitutes a major and a minor city? And how many AA units are in these cities? How high are these walls? How thick are they? Where are the anti-ship batteries? How powerful are they? What is their range? What system do they operate on to locate enemies? What constitutes a point of strategic importance? How much is 'quite a bit' of coastline? What metals were used in construction? How powerful are these MG nests? Where are these mortars and how powerful are they?

And by being vague, he can say whatever the hell is most convenient without RP'ing it out, and that makes it incredibly difficult for an opposing RP'er to try and, well, oppose him. It is fair to say that it is implied that there are a great deal of fortifications along the border, but is it not also fair to say that a majority of these were destroyed in the initial air attack? And what is going on with my anti-nuke operations?

B) I invaded with an initial force of 80,000 troops, plus another 320,000 backing them up, for a total of 400,000 invading across the land border alone. He specifically stated in his opening RP that there were 200,000 along the border with Deutschland, meaning that I have a massive advantage in this department, not to mention my far better technology also gives me an advantage. Plus, because of opening-round strikes on his military bases and fortifications, a large number of these opening 200,000 would be out of commission before the actual invasion begins. I'm not saying all, but a good number. To say that my numerical advantage and my technological advantage is not absolutely overwhelming is nonsense.

c) What I said with this particular advance is that they began moving quickly towards the capital, and their goal was to capture the city. I have edited this part of my post, as it is presumptuous, so say that they 'would' capture the city and they 'would' move towards it. I admit my fault there.

Therefore, while multiple moves are not a problem. The sheer advance and land gains is not possible until Franz comments on your initial attacks. Again, Franz a classified troop placement here is almost necessary. But these advances must be toned down until a counter post is made. That being said, while that map can be used as an over all plan to your invasion, I do not believe it would work as a factual representation of land held or gain at this point.

Franz did comment on my initial attacks (See: pg. 2), and he did wait for me to make the next post (as far as I can tell). So, I made the next post, and it was an advance on my part. Is it not regulation that once the other person posts, you continue by posting yourself? Or did we develop some new rule where I get to post once for every two my enemy gets to make?

OOC: Merger, stop RPing Franz soldiers and being hypocritical (and ridiculous) enough to make a map portraying you taking over the whole of Denmark in a single day, in conjunction with that time frame you suggested.

Lynneth has already done the appropriate calculations and proven that you could simply not win at this stage, so in fact to suggest you can take over anything is rather far fetched.

Yes, how about some reading comprehension for you? I NEVER said that I took over Denmark in a day. I said my goals were to finish soon, and that a goal was to capture Lubeck in 2 days. As for the calculations, he calculated a CLEAR ADVANTAGE on my part over Franz, and a clear advantage on his part over me.

[Tahsir]

lol 100% future tense. Fail. Half of that post is present tense or past tense, and the future tense is just more god-modes to be.

This one is priceless

They reached Lübeck by 2000 hours and intense fighting began. Blood ran thickly through the streets as the Dutch and Lübeckian soldiers fought tooth and nail over the city, each determined that they would win and each willing to do anything to achieve victory, because for both sides, this was the pivotal battle. This would determine the course of the war.

Oh yeah, not a god mode. Soooo totally 100% future tense, and not by passing all of Franz's defense and military power.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Tahsir Re

[Sarah Tintagyl]

First off Merger, I just want to say that not once did I ever swear at you during my post. Your lack of respect is revolting and I'm not saying that in a way that puts this position above anyone else, you shouldn't need to use that kind of vulgarity in speaking with anyone. That being said. Franz's vagueness has been addressed in my post, I have told him flat out that he must be much more direct in where he is placing his troops, what orders he is giving them, so on and so forth. This is so that it is easier for your attacking posts and so that Franz does not metagame all his forces in either the north of Lubeck or the south. As to Franz's casualties, given that you have attacked he now has the opportunity to write out his damage, wars are not meant to be finished in a few days time, or possibly even a week as what CNRP is normally used to. A war such as this, that could possibly be fought tooth and nail should be RPed with every small advance if the defender and the attack would want. Every move has the ability to be countered and every counter to be done so as well. Again, I understand that he must distinctly place where his troops are otherwise I can't see this RP turning into anything more than an OOC argument.

Until Franz actually places at least a classified post of where his troops are and some detail of what he is doing, there is no real argument here. If you do storm ahead, it is unfair to him who has a handicap at the description of warfare as far as I can tell. As to you, with out that, it give the chance for Franz to metagame in the south where the majority of your invasion took place, in addition to you not being able to RP properly where your attacks are occurring at, how many soldiers you could possibly oppose and how many soldiers you are putting into the attack, making it unfair to you. Therefore, until this is done I would suggest holding off any advance and let him properly RP out the damages that you have inflicted with your first attack.

Since you are so critical of his warfare descriptions Merger, perhaps it wouldn't be too hard for you to maybe help him out. Share your knowledge of how to RP war properly, advice on what you should include on city defense, troop movements, logistics, field defenses and so on. As to: "It is fair to say that it is implied that there are a great deal of fortifications along the border, but is it not also fair to say that a majority of these were destroyed in the initial air attack? And what is going on with my anti-nuke operations?" If you would launch that attack and then only proceed with a small advance, then it wouldn't be a problem and the damage could be RPed before your army infiltrates his defenses and are clean on their way to the capital. Various small posts that actually advance the war, single attacks, air strikes, single movements are easier to manage and will cut the chance of godmoding from either side, that is my advice on how to handle your question. As to you decommissioning his nukes, classified information on the location of the nuclear silos will have to be given as well as some infiltration RP to go with it.

Work with Franz to make a good war and this might be easier for both of you, instead of constant butting heads and vagueness. If I did not answer all your questions, please tell me and I will try to respond as quickly as I can.

Next time, cut out the vulgarity. Its not needed, '!@#$@#$ impossible' doesn't make me say...oh I better pay more attention to that part. No it does quite the opposite actually. So if you want me to take you a bit more seriously, can the swearing.

Edited November 14, 2009 by Sarah Tintagyl

[freakwars]

Horses are from North America, but they went extinct there, so they only survive in Europe and Asia, and such-like.

[Subtleknifewielder]

Horses are from North America, but they went extinct there, so they only survive in Europe and Asia, and such-like.

Is there evidence of this?

[JerreyRough]

Horses are from North America, but they went extinct there, so they only survive in Europe and Asia, and such-like.

!@#$@#$ cell phone. D: Ignore this post.

Edited November 18, 2009 by JerreyRough

[freakwars]

Is there evidence of this?

The last prehistoric North American horses died out between 13,000 and 11,000 years ago, at the end of the Pleistocene, but by then Equus had spread to Asia, Europe, and Africa.

http://www.livescience.com/animals/080724-...ild-horses.html

[Subtleknifewielder]

http://www.livescience.com/animals/080724-...ild-horses.html

then there's no bringing them into the RP that way.

[Uberstein]

EDIT: ACK wrong thread.

Edited November 19, 2009 by BaronUberstein

[Executive Minister]

Anyone want to set up some treaties with me that would not go against IG sentiment?

I don't have any friends

[Subtleknifewielder]

Anyone want to set up some treaties with me that would not go against IG sentiment?

I don't have any friends

I'd do it...but I'm too far away.

[Markus Wilding]

I would too except I'm at war with 4 other people...

[Executive Minister]

I would too except I'm at war with 4 other people...

Your predicament is the inspiration for my request

[Subtleknifewielder]

Your predicament is the inspiration for my request

Maybe you could ask to join the treaty of Aphrike? (Is that spelled right?)

You do qualify, after all.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Executive Minister]

Maybe you could ask to join the treaty of Aphrike? (Is that spelled right?)

You do qualify, after all.

I have been asked, but I declined as that would not match my IC.

Almost all the members of the Aphrike treaty were direct or indirect belligerents during the Arabian War against the NoN/Roachinians/Aether. While the EM rejected the Red Sands in the end... there is still hard feelings.

The Rebel Army, Carthage, and Novak are definitely not entities the IC EM would bed with... ever.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Executive Minister

[Sargun II]

The Rebel Army, Carthage, and Novak are definitely not entities the IC EM would bed with... ever.

In reality it's because EM hates Africa.

[Executive Minister]

In reality it's because EM hates Africa.

No, its cuz the EM is a jedi

[Karnee]

No, its cuz the EM is a jedi

OMG!!!

Jedi! *Runs away in the opposite direction really, really fast.*

[Subtleknifewielder]

In reality it's because EM hates Africa.

More appropriately, hates the people who tore down his allies...

Novak, Rebel Army, Carthage...all had a hand in bringing down Aether and Raochin...

[Karnee]

More appropriately, hates the people who tore down his allies...

Novak, Rebel Army, Carthage...all had a hand in bringing down Aether and Raochin...

I smell an issue!

Dose this have to do with one of the many wars fought in CNRP?

[Subtleknifewielder]

I smell an issue!

Dose this have to do with one of the many wars fought in CNRP?

Yep--exactly. Executive Minister's nation, the Nation of Nod, was allied to two other RP nations, the ones I named.

However, one was situated on land that had once belonged to another RP nation, and that other RP'er (Voodoo Nova of Novak) wanted it back, so he got a friend (Lavo_2 of Rebel Army) to help him.

Upon the conclusion of the war, Zarfef (of the Aether Empire) hit the newly re-formed Novak with Chemical missiles, and was in turn carpet-nuked by Sargun (who RP's Carthage).

Edited November 21, 2009 by Subtleknifewielder

[Sargun II]

So, in reality, he just hates Africa.

[Subtleknifewielder]

So, in reality, he just hates Africa.

Not true...he doesn't hate Botha.