CNRP OOC Thread

[Triyun]

Question in regards to ship substitution and tonnage. For subs do we go with the submerged or surface displacement?  Also, are we allowed to make reasonable upgrades and changes to ships gained through substitution?

Submerged and yes, but like, not complete redesigns.

[MostGloriousLeader]

Type 216

 

Considering its based on a currently existing class of submarine could this be used in substitution or no?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Type 216

 

Considering its based on a currently existing class of submarine could this be used in substitution or no?

It is a real plan, with proven tech (in your tech range), and a realistic displacement. Pending the decision of my co-GMs, go for it.

[Generalissimo]

The X-51 seems to have been working quite decently. 

 

Development schedules are stating a working missile by around 2020, for the F-35, which would still be within the tech limits of CNRP for the upper echelon.

X-51's estimated for availability mid-2020s

(2025-ish at bare minimum)

Slightly later compared to 2022 technology scale of CNRP.

Hence my point of not being particularly applicable right now.

In another one year it could be a thing for CNRP.

 

Sure, it did not fly for long, but that was not a technical issue, so much as an issue of it being intented to not fly much further.

Nothing with better performance is going to even closely be ready for 2024.

X-51 is literally top of that.

 

If you fly at Mach 5+, you don't need that long to get to substantial ranges.

3,900 mph for 5 minutes is only 325 miles.

Within current battlefield roleplays it's usually much longer.

That is frankly impossible by current scale of CNRP military technologies.

 

Combat value is not too bad, if you consider that without proper early detection assets, it is nigh-impossible to defend against.

Of course it's going to stick out rather obviously with the proper early detection assets.

Anyone playing a "stealth" hypersonic missile is going far beyond capabilities for CNRP.

 

 

General(issimo) Commentary: 

You overall points on capabilities are overall correct Evangeline Anovilis.

Edited July 20, 2014 by Generalissimo

[Evangeline Anovilis]

First, the tech scale goes to 2024, not 2022. It goes exactly 10 years into the future, on January 1st 2015, the max year will be lifted to 2025.

 

On whether or not something with better performance will be possible prior to 2024, we'll see. Given it was an intentional limitation, not an issue that cropped up and limited it, I would however not be stating that it cannot be improved. If someone can make a convincing and well-founded argument, it ought to be reviewed.

 

325 miles, while I only have an idea of what kilometres are, sounds like a decent range for an anti-ship missile, which most likely is the going to be the main application of the technology. If we calculate the time this missile spends within range of anti-air systems and CIWS, the technology is quite promising. Even in case you are not using a sea-skimming approach. Where it sticks out is most of all IR signature, but IR needs visual contact and by the time you pick up the missile from a surface-based asset, it's maybe 20-25 km in, which gives you not even half a minute for countermeasures at this speed.

[Generalissimo]

First, the tech scale goes to 2024, not 2022. It goes exactly 10 years into the future, on January 1st 2015, the max year will be lifted to 2025.

I fixed that little matter before you posted. . . so yeah.

Not your fault you couldn't see it before posting this.

 

On whether or not something with better performance will be possible prior to 2024, we'll see. Given it was an intentional limitation, not an issue that cropped up and limited it, I would however not be stating that it cannot be improved. If someone can make a convincing and well-founded argument, it ought to be reviewed.

Difference being though it's not strictly 2024 technology.

Not strictly intentional-ish limitation for speed though.

Hypersonic stuff has a few hard limitations right now.

Not flying maximum speed beyond five minutes.

In theory maybe a bigger one could be constructed. . .

. . . if you're willing to launch from a B-52.

 

Where it sticks out is most of all IR signature, but IR needs visual contact and by the time you pick up the missile from a surface-based asset, it's maybe 20-25 km in, which gives you not even half a minute for countermeasures at this speed.

Under slightly half a minute is theoretically enough for a 1990's era Phalanx. (If they launched just one)

[Evangeline Anovilis]

First off, if I can launch a 1,000 km range hypersonic cruise missile from a bomber, this is actually a sound idea.

 

Second, you fail to address that the CIWS, while having a short reaction time has a range of at most 5 km. So, this system has not even 3 seconds to react. I'd say it is not too likely to intercept much.

[Generalissimo]

First off, if I can launch a 1,000 km range hypersonic cruise missile from a bomber, this is actually a sound idea.

You need something with roughly size and stability of a B-52 though.

Most people in CNRP don't like slowboating bombers.

(Missile itself will be hybersonic for only a few minutes

Of course it could possibly cruise around slower beforehand

Fuel is the limiting factor on that)

[Evangeline Anovilis]

I'd use slow strategic bombers, if I was not limited. Triyun uses them, as far as I know. Maybe some others too.

 

The missile will be on high speed for quite a long time. To cruise at significantly slower speed is not economic and would require a second engine. This would make it a multi-stage missile with maybe a turbojet or rocket engine for first phase, until it is jettisonned and the missile transitions into hypersonic. Only such would it be economic. Naturally, this would need a larger launch platform.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Alright folks, with my term as GM up and following the latest events, I think I'll (sort of) retire from CNRP. I may not be the oldest nation around, but I do feel kind of like the times have changed too much for me to find much enjoyment in staying. I'm going to think for the next few days whether to stay in Faraway as 25th day poster or to just leave outright, but I guess given the activity levels and interest in my country, people wouldn't mind when I take my time with deciding or won't even notice a change.

 

I'm going to stay in CNRP2, for about as long as it takes before it once again becomes retarded.

 

Take care and I hope you all will have a good time.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Okay peeps, time to brainstorm. How do we get more people in CNRP.

[The Zigur]

Ban fictional future technologies and custom designed assets.

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Considering how most people use custom designs to some extent, that's not going to happen.

[The Zigur]

The wargaming system is superior to CNRP2, it is just dumb loopholes like these which have sunk it.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Three things that should not occur:

• Map Reset (for all intents and purposes, changing the map doesn't solve that people think this is dead or that they might get rolled or whatnot)
• Abolishing custom designs (Limiting techscale so far has always been a superior approach to this. In CNRP, custom designs are widespread and I think many would prefer to keep them in, given that there are limits on what can be fielded)
• Kicking players (Just should not be up)

Three things that should occur:

• Activity (Even if some say quality over quantiy, the quality has not been great as of late and surely not an excuse for rather low activity by many established people)
• Give people something to get engaged in (There's a bit of a lack in interaction)
• Don't let people who are hardly active have tons of land (As hostile as this may sound, we have had past cases of this and in general, some people should post more or stop being a roadblock)

[The Zigur]

Speaking for myself, my main problem was having to face fictional star trek technology, while simultaneously not being allowed to digitally enhance existing technologies to try to counter them. Yes I am the new kid on the block and thats why my voice did not weigh heavily, but perhaps that is exactly the reason why smaller nations don't want to play.

 

So people like me who pay attention to detail, are minimalized in CNRP2 by corrupt OOC means, and minimized in CNRP1 by corrupt IC means. Until you strike a balance between the interests of everybody, you are just going to have two separate factions ruling absolutely in separate roleplay arenas.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Tywin Lannister

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Activity (Even if some say quality over quantiy, the quality has not been great as of late and surely not an excuse for rather low activity by many established people)

To be fair, I have constantly promoted my new continent, and am always open for an RP with pretty much anyone.

Give people something to get engaged in (There's a bit of a lack in interaction)

Unfortunately, I think this gives us a case of catch-22. We need fresh blood in CNRP to raise activity rates and create interesting storylines. However, needing something that they can provide to get them in the game is a bit cyclical. You are absolutely correct that interesting things need to happen, and I think that creating general story arcs (something that may even span several threads) and advertising them in the Open National page could help to draw people in, if not permanently, then at least temporarily.

Don't let people who are hardly active have tons of land (As hostile as this may sound, we have had past cases of this and in general, some people should post more or stop being a roadblock)

Luckily, we've seen somewhat of a decrease in this stance. Triyun has whittled himself down to China/Mongolia and such. Some people are still quite large and take up a lot of primo real estate. Cent, for example, is definitely one of the less-active posters and does relatively little with the Middle East and North Africa, and I admit that even Russia could stand to give up some of the Soviet Bloc nations in Eastern Europe since I have never seen Justinian do anything with them. The problem is that if Cent did ditch the Middle East, we'd probably see one person come along and gobble it back up into a new nation. Moderation has never been CNRP's strong suit. This is also why we started the rule that you can RP any culture anywhere you wanted. Nobody really wants to be Germany per se, but everyone wants to be the Germans. Half the map is empty and is free for new people to move into any time they wish (another good thing that Cent and Triyun have done, in my opinion). If you want to be Germany, you can be Germany in India or the Congo without waiting for the person who holds that land to give it up.

[Justinian the Mighty]

Russia will give up nothing. If you want it come take it.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Justinian the Mighty

[xoindotnler]

Okay peeps, time to brainstorm. How do we get more people in CNRP.

Just pull the plug, have some decency.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

To be fair, I have constantly promoted my new continent, and am always open for an RP with pretty much anyone.

Unfortunately, I think this gives us a case of catch-22. We need fresh blood in CNRP to raise activity rates and create interesting storylines. However, needing something that they can provide to get them in the game is a bit cyclical. You are absolutely correct that interesting things need to happen, and I think that creating general story arcs (something that may even span several threads) and advertising them in the Open National page could help to draw people in, if not permanently, then at least temporarily.

Luckily, we've seen somewhat of a decrease in this stance. Triyun has whittled himself down to China/Mongolia and such. Some people are still quite large and take up a lot of primo real estate. Cent, for example, is definitely one of the less-active posters and does relatively little with the Middle East and North Africa, and I admit that even Russia could stand to give up some of the Soviet Bloc nations in Eastern Europe since I have never seen Justinian do anything with them. The problem is that if Cent did ditch the Middle East, we'd probably see one person come along and gobble it back up into a new nation. Moderation has never been CNRP's strong suit. This is also why we started the rule that you can RP any culture anywhere you wanted. Nobody really wants to be Germany per se, but everyone wants to be the Germans. Half the map is empty and is free for new people to move into any time they wish (another good thing that Cent and Triyun have done, in my opinion). If you want to be Germany, you can be Germany in India or the Congo without waiting for the person who holds that land to give it up.

Get it on the map.

 

You can do stuff yourself, no? Invite someone from Triyun over and shoot him.

 

The sole reasons I'd go German is convenience of knowing the language and how to create proper neologisms.

[PresidentDavid]

To be fair, I have constantly promoted my new continent, and am always open for an RP with pretty much anyone.

Unfortunately, I think this gives us a case of catch-22. We need fresh blood in CNRP to raise activity rates and create interesting storylines. However, needing something that they can provide to get them in the game is a bit cyclical. You are absolutely correct that interesting things need to happen, and I think that creating general story arcs (something that may even span several threads) and advertising them in the Open National page could help to draw people in, if not permanently, then at least temporarily.

Luckily, we've seen somewhat of a decrease in this stance. Triyun has whittled himself down to China/Mongolia and such. Some people are still quite large and take up a lot of primo real estate. Cent, for example, is definitely one of the less-active posters and does relatively little with the Middle East and North Africa, and I admit that even Russia could stand to give up some of the Soviet Bloc nations in Eastern Europe since I have never seen Justinian do anything with them. The problem is that if Cent did ditch the Middle East, we'd probably see one person come along and gobble it back up into a new nation. Moderation has never been CNRP's strong suit. This is also why we started the rule that you can RP any culture anywhere you wanted. Nobody really wants to be Germany per se, but everyone wants to be the Germans. Half the map is empty and is free for new people to move into any time they wish (another good thing that Cent and Triyun have done, in my opinion). If you want to be Germany, you can be Germany in India or the Congo without waiting for the person who holds that land to give it up.

 

In the beginning of CNRP2 the GMs regulated how much land you could take. Mara started out with two or three States in the United States. Anyone starting in Europe was basically limited to their nation of a couple of extra provinces if it was a small state. Of course y'all aren't starting with a fresh map which is your prerogative, but yeah. You have GMs, empower them!  

[Evangeline Anovilis]

 

You have GMs, empower them!  

We have GMs. Bother to nominate and vote for them. Honestly, it is appalling how the last elections went. and most likely, around August 15th, it'll be me or Horo getting a nomination thread up again, because noone cares. Frustrating as all hell.

 

And I am against giving GMs more power. All the past GM teams and the time of mod-appointed GMs have taught me that it is a flawed idea and quite dangerous.

[Mogar]

Africa was the only real exception to the "don't claim more than a RL country", besides the obvious America/Russia/China, anything super huge.

[The Zigur]

Allow nationalist uprisings within large empires, and even after defeat allow the nationalist faction to roleplay a resistance.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Allow nationalist uprisings within large empires, and even after defeat allow the nationalist faction to roleplay a resistance.

Chance of people who wouldn't go through the pain of an insurgency if they get rolled taking up the offer: really low

 

Chance of annoying pests who just want to mess with people by spawning stupid BS warriors and homicidal rhinos in the middle of other people's nations taking up the offer: pretty high

 

Overall: Fixes nothing, causes headaches, not worth it.