CNRP Reset Vote

[Mogar]

I don't have a nation so I'm aware my opinion doesnt really matter here, but a full reset is kinda retarded, a full reset is just going to, if anything, make all of your lives far worse because after a reset Triyun doesnt have to pretend to be the civil superpower, he can take over every single one of your nations and it'd pretty much be your own damn fault.

[Lestari]

I've actually changed my mind, and am no longer in favour of a full reset. This has nothing to do with most of what's been said here and I still think change needs to come about, but a full wipe isn't the way to go about it. CNRP has too much rich history, too many interesting and vibrant historical figures, to just wipe it all out. If there's any action that needs to be done to fix the shit that's fucked in CNRP, then it should be IC-- as exponentially more difficult as that will be, given the state of things.

[Centurius]

There are 8 other people that think it is a good idea. Granted not all of them are in CNRP but them seem to have some interest in it? I'm not sure.

 

And I didn't imply you have dictatorial powers. I just said you are seen as a leader around here. 

Yeah 5 of those never did CNRP at all, the 13 people against it are all active members. Clearly people think your idea is shit.

[Evangeline Anovilis]

There are 8 other people that think it is a good idea. Granted not all of them are in CNRP but them seem to have some interest in it? I'm not sure.

 

And I didn't imply you have dictatorial powers. I just said you are seen as a leader around here. 

8 people, of which only 2 have a nation in the RP and of which 5, unlike Mogar and Rayan Thomas, have not even bothered to explain why they voted (Mogar didn't really vote though) the way they did. If there is an interest, it seems rather limited.

 

I don't have a nation so I'm aware my opinion doesnt really matter here, but a full reset is kinda retarded, a full reset is just going to, if anything, make all of your lives far worse because after a reset Triyun doesnt have to pretend to be the civil superpower, he can take over every single one of your nations and it'd pretty much be your own damn fault.

In general people would have less restriction to play the "might is right" card and just engage in imperialistic wars of aggression. And given that while this is action, it will profit the smaller nations not in the least, and I doubt people could really want it.

 

I personally think, given this is non-binding, your opinion is not worthless, or at least not worth less than that of other people in the RP. While of course votes in binding polls are restricted to those that actually participate, it is in our interest to know what potential RPers think and we cannot try to make entrance in the RP easier without knowing the hurdles, as Melech already pointed out.

 

There's a difference between allowing someone to RP in a controlled location where one can keep one's eye over them and a totally different scenario when someone has strategic independence that simply wasn't handed from them. And I read what you say, I just typically don't think it is good enough. I'm asking you for the answer to 2+2 and instead of 4 you're trying to explain why there are four seasons.

Old regional powers will be gone, new regional powers will arise. Most will be the same, as they form cliques and have the necessary stats and knowledge on how to capitalise on them. The idea that afterwards you'll be able to RP without any interference by others is valid for as long as it takes your neighbourhood power to send a gunboat of your coast or to put an army to your border. As sad as that may sound, you will need to reform other things, not a map reset if you want a change that last for longer than people can write up their imperialistic struggles.

 

Also, for all the hate there is, I think if new players joined in an RP where Triyun and Cent actively mop up the greater part of the player base again, instead of the current hegemony, they won't stay for long. Rather, I see people like Lynneth leaving, if he gets repeatedly kicked around again. I don't think dotCom, Shammy, Mogar, Mael, etc. left because Triyun was too reluctant to use his armed forces...

[PresidentDavid]

I was just trying to see if we could get some Change in here. Obama makes this look a lot easier then what it really is. 

[Centurius]

I was just trying to see if we could get some Change in here. Obama makes this look a lot easier then what it really is. 

Obama comes with proposals that make sense, you don't.

[iamthey]

If you want to reset the RP then start a new one. Don't muck up the old one.

[PresidentDavid]

Because that hasn't been done 300 times. 

[MostGloriousLeader]

Yes, it has been tried many times.  Each time a clean slate, often with different rules.  And they never really seem to take off and everyone falls back to the vanilla cnrp.  Why would this reset make anything different?

[Evangeline Anovilis]

Yes, it has been tried many times.  Each time a clean slate, often with different rules.  And they never really seem to take off and everyone falls back to the vanilla cnrp.  Why would this reset make anything different?

In his defense, changes to the main game tend to be longer-lived. Even those that are revoked after some time, like preplanning.

 

Still, clean slate isn't a real solution to anything.

[Kankou]

There are only two ways CNRP might be more "equal" and "open":

 

1. Reduce the technology gap by restricting the top technology to current days (and scale it accordingly).

2. Enforce a penalty on "overextension" of territory (however you define it).

 

 

Unfortunately, neither would ever be passed unless we have at least 2/3s agreeing to it.

[Vidarr the Terrible]

There are only two ways CNRP might be more "equal" and "open":

 

1. Reduce the technology gap by restricting the top technology to current days (and scale it accordingly).

2. Enforce a penalty on "overextension" of territory (however you define it).

 

 

Unfortunately, neither would ever be passed unless we have at least 2/3s agreeing to it.

 

1. Been suggested before, by you. Terrible idea, because the technology gap would still exist, unless you propose bringing down the top and then bringing up the bottom.
2. How would we decide what is overextended and what isn't, or is that just a targeted attack on people with big land empires (cough cough Triyun MGL and Cent), as has been every single attack in this thread.
 

There is no rule that can "fix" CNRP, and every thread created that tries to "fix" CNRP just "breaks" it even more, because people would rather argue about rules than just write stuff.

[Lynneth]

I don't think #1 has any merit to it. People who can use military hardware are still better off in wars than people who have no idea about combat and equipment capabilities, using them, etc.

There are only two ways CNRP might be more "equal" and "open":

 

1. Reduce the technology gap by restricting the top technology to current days (and scale it accordingly).

2. Enforce a penalty on "overextension" of territory (however you define it).

 

 

Unfortunately, neither would ever be passed unless we have at least 2/3s agreeing to it.

#2 -may- have some merit, but as Vidarr, pointed out, how would it be decided? Area? Population? And nothing would stop from the large empires to just create protectorates and keep their military might. Not to mention soft power, alliances between certain people. I don't think anything can be fixed with either of these proposals.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Lynneth

[Captain Enema]

#1 I've always been in favor of capping tech on present day. Rather than deciding what tech people have based on ingame technology, I've suggested in the past letting infrastructure deciding it. Greater infra equals greater access to modern day designs. Take a nation like Israel, small.. but has modern military weaponry... but mostly due to American Foreign aid.

 

Thing is though, people aren't so much pissed about the use of 2088 spaceships with phasers. It is the inability to decipher the massive technojargon posts.

 

Yet, 2088 space ships, 243 Roman Legions, the ability to clog a post with confusing terms to the point of insanity is there. Yet, part of the game is doing your research and asking questions.

 

Either you do those things, or you don't.

 

#2 makes sense. Just damn hard to reasonably enforce and I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of having more rules in cnrp. Damn near getting to be a socialist nanny state in here. Next thing you know these damn youngin' will be lining up for their rp handouts.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Tidy Bowl Man

[Evangeline Anovilis]

2. Enforce a penalty on "overextension" of territory (however you define it).

While on the other idea I am undecided (and I don't care too much really), I'd think this could be either linked to land area (restricting map area) or to infrastructure (restricting population), though you could also do both, for a balanced approach. In regards to enforcement, that could, for the sake of simplicity be tiered, so it looks like somewhat like this:
 
Below 500 land/1,000 infrastructure = up to 100,000 sq km/10,000,000 people
501-1,000 land/1,001-2,500 infrastructure = up to 1,000,000 sq km/30,000,000 people
1,001-2,000 land/2,501-5,000 infrastructure = up to 2,000,000 sq km/90,000,000 people
...
10,001+ land/15,001+ infrastructure = up to 10,000,000 sq km/1.5 billion people
 
These numbers I made up just now, they are just an example for what I'm talking about. Issue is, stats still mean people can expand far and wide with a lot of land and infra, though now it would have a bit of a maximum. Above that maximum, you could define it as "overexpansion", with penalties, imo best based on how far they overextent in relation to their base.
 
I'd say p=(x/y-1)*2, where...
 
p = penalty, by which the amount of permitted soldiers/tanks/aircraft is reduced.
x = amount of land or population held (for the asset that is overextented)
y = limit that would be permitted in terms of land or population (for the asset that is overextented)
 
In effect, this would lead to a maximum permissible overextension of 150%, where every percentage point above 100% is penalised by a penalty of 2% to military assets. For example, if my maximum permissible amount of land area is 1,000,000 sq km and I got 1,120,000 sq km, I'd get...
 
(1,120,000/1,000,000-1)*2=(1.12/1)-1)*2=(1.12-1)*2=0.12*2=0.24=24% (Meaning I can utilise only 76% of my troop count, etc)
 
 

#2 -may- have some merit, but as Vidarr, pointed out, how would it be decided? Area? Population? And nothing would stop from the large empires to just create protectorates and keep their military might. Not to mention soft power, alliances between certain people. I don't think anything can be fixed with either of these proposals.

Make protectorates count by half their land area/population and you can cap that.

 

Soft power you won't cap, unless you want some kind of ostracism, which isn't really a possibility anyway.

 

Now, these are just examples and ideas. Nothing more, nothing less. I'd seperate the land area from population, btw, so people can go for Mongolia without having tons of infra, or for Bangladesh, without having tons of land. But yeah, just my two cents on how to best tackle "overextension", if people want to curb expansion.

 

Ideas based on ingame sphere of influence (like, all my land has to be within that circle), while certainly way easier would leave Polynesian nations screwed.

[Triyun]

I don't really see the need to penalize anyone for being active that seems dumb to me. Rule changes should focus on creating incentives for people to be more active not create caps at which point you get penalized for more activity. That's a perverse incentive.

[Tanis777]

Observing this thread is like watching a compilation of fail videos on YouTube.

On a more constructive note, at the end of the day, people choose whether or not to interact with other players in CN.  There is a lot of "groups" of players that choose to just play with each other and no one else.  Other players are some extreme of the interaction spectrums of hyperactive ADD dog trying to be your best buddy to the players with the inferiority complex of Napoleon and dreaming of grand conquest. 

Playing IC is nice and all, but to be a community, it's why OOC exists in the first place.  Get to know your players, talk about other stuff besides CNRP and connect at some personal level.  Sometimes, it does require to put whatever baggage you have aside and just appreciate the experience.

"I paint objects as I think them, not as I see them" - Pablo Picasso

The greatest strength CNRPers fail to realize that your greatest limitation is your imagination, yet you court with the fear of failure to not go with your imagination.  Stop looking at whatever perspective you have and try to find another persepective.  I know many of you fall into the realistic country trap and other stupid IRL history of the region you play in.  Historic CNRP history is interesting and makes RPing different, I've really disliked the "relocators" making new history apart from the old that would capture a sense of continuity and somewhat more dynamic RPing.

Edited November 18, 2013 by Tanis777

[Kankou]

1. Been suggested before, by you. Terrible idea, because the technology gap would still exist, unless you propose bringing down the top and then bringing up the bottom.

 

All of my suggestions have been bringing down the top and bringing up the bottom. I'm currently thinking Vietnam War as floor and Current as ceiling.

 

 

A Gulf War era nation can fight a Current Era nation to a standstill on the defensive assuming similar numbers. With the current scale, that's not really possible at all, never mind the gap in tactics. 

[KaiserMelech Mikhail]

Considering how the only people who really do RP pretty much below today's technology do it because they want to, I don't think a tech floor is really necessary.  I would like to drop the tech ceiling, however.  To me, 20 years in advance just seems ridiculous, mainly because at that point you are really stretching predictions of what will be available, but more importantly, in service.  I would be in favor of a tech ceiling closer to 2023 rather than 2033, since a decade is not only much easier to RP since it is much closer to our current time, but it is also easier to predict what will actually be available.

Edited November 18, 2013 by KaiserMelech Mikhail

[Triyun]

Due respect Tanis, I think you're being a bit disrespectful and niave if you think people don't realize imagination is important, its pretty much a pre-req to be here.

 

 

Considering how the only people who really do RP pretty much below today's technology do it because they want to, I don't think a tech floor is really necessary.  I would like to drop the tech ceiling, however.  To me, 20 years in advance just seems ridiculous, mainly because at that point you are really stretching predictions of what will be available, but more importantly, in service.  I would be in favor of a tech ceiling closer to 2023 rather than 2033, since a decade is not only much easier to RP since it is much closer to our current time, but it is also easier to predict what will actually be available.

 

That was true until like a month ago when a bunch of info was released giving us a pretty good idea about a number of things (SR-72, the directed energy weapons on combat ships) etc.   Also its bottom tier voting against lowering it.  Cent, Kankou, I, idk about Lyn and iKrolm, most people over 5000 tech are all on record being fine with lowering the tech tier across the board.  Most people would rather have prototype F-22s and me having F-X equivalents though than me having F-22s and them having F-4s.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Triyun

[Tanis777]

Well, I would disagree with your assessment of what I said.  Sure, people have an imagination for CNRP as a given, but people reach an equivalent of "writer's block" in RP many times.  I'm not saying not everyone here isn't without imagination, there are plenty that exhibit it, it's just some of them think about something to do and they just let it die in their mind without putting it out there in text.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Tanis777

[Evangeline Anovilis]

You know, if you want to lower the tech scale (any of you), you can make a topic about it for discussion, maybe already with a proposal how to go about it (Doubt moving everyone 10 years back will cut it).

 

Imho, while maybe a bit more complicated, I liked a few of the ideas brought up last year (that's already over a year ago... time flies by), but it'd need to be discussed in the community. Not just presented in a manner that, while not explicitly states so, implies that it needs only the approval of a select few to have the support of the community at large.

 

But yeah, I think whoever wants to can just make a discussion topic. Times change, maybe so do certain opinions. Interest in changing the tech scale does exist seemingly, if it actually manifests itself in a proposal that's not just carried by a few, it can be put up for a vote. But I doubt further discussion here will get much done...

[Captain Enema]

You know, if you want to lower the tech scale (any of you), you can make a topic about it for discussion, maybe already with a proposal how to go about it (Doubt moving everyone 10 years back will cut it).

 

Imho, while maybe a bit more complicated, I liked a few of the ideas brought up last year (that's already over a year ago... time flies by), but it'd need to be discussed in the community. Not just presented in a manner that, while not explicitly states so, implies that it needs only the approval of a select few to have the support of the community at large.

 

But yeah, I think whoever wants to can just make a discussion topic. Times change, maybe so do certain opinions. Interest in changing the tech scale does exist seemingly, if it actually manifests itself in a proposal that's not just carried by a few, it can be put up for a vote. But I doubt further discussion here will get much done...

 

 

Occasionally, in your role as your master's lap dog, you do voice a reasonably intelligent proposal. The thoughts put forth by the Overlord of CNRP a year ago are well worth examining.

 

Though as an asides.

 

If you really want to rp, just rp.

 

Does the map really matter that much to you PD?

 

Or does it feel as if you must have a chance at winning a game that is by its very essence, unwinnable?

 

You do realize that right PD? No one single person can win cnrp. You can lose it by different degrees. A single nation controlling the globe isn't a winner, that's merely the last surviving nation in a role play world of complete suckitude. That is the person who will have either outlasted, out-bullied their partners, or out shouted everyone in the gm court. The winning team in nearly every cn war of late has been the person with the greatest capacity to shriek the loudest and most defiantly on the gm thread.

 

It makes no sense to me why you want to reform CNRP.

 

Why not strive to detach yourself from the map and the tech rules and the folderol a little bit and just enjoy yourself?

[Vidarr the Terrible]

Occasionally, in your role as your master's lap dog, you do voice a reasonably intelligent proposal. The thoughts put forth by the Overlord of CNRP a year ago are well worth examining.

 

Though as an asides.

 

If you really want to rp, just rp.

 

Does the map really matter that much to you PD?

 

Or does it feel as if you must have a chance at winning a game that is by its very essence, unwinnable?

 

You do realize that right PD? No one single person can win cnrp. You can lose it by different degrees. A single nation controlling the globe isn't a winner, that's merely the last surviving nation in a role play world of complete suckitude. That is the person who will have either outlasted, out-bullied their partners, or out shouted everyone in the gm court. The winning team in nearly every cn war of late has been the person with the greatest capacity to shriek the loudest and most defiantly on the gm thread.

 

It makes no sense to me why you want to reform CNRP.

 

Why not strive to detach yourself from the map and the tech rules and the folderol a little bit and just enjoy yourself?

 

Seriously, that's what I'm starting to do with Midgard.

[xoindotnler]

Ban protectorates.