Why the War?

[bcortell]

I thought I'd already explained this wasn't the case. Feanor's rattling your cage. Of course, I'm sure some in TOP objected but that wasn't the story from gov.

I'll just point this out (even though pretty much everyone knows).  The above quote is from a guy who didn't have access to any level of discussion above member within PF.  As such, he has very little knowledge of what was discussed.

 

Also, it is true that TOP didn't want any PF AA's to have ties to AI (for a few reasons).  I do believe at one point later in the discussion that the possibility of an ODAP was brought up, though. 

[trimm]

TOP was pretty clear about their ambivalence towards anyone in PF signing anything over an optional treaty with AI, To claim otherwise is fairly absurd, but absurdity seems to be TOP's stock in trade these days.

[AntyCrist]

as far as I can tell this was just the treaty web bringing us in (and a few other reasons, I am generalizing with little knowledge :P)

 

so according to the wiki the main cause for this massive war was umbrella slot filling puppets? there has to be a deeper reason then that. I mean if that is the reason, that is a lot of people upset about one nation...

 

 

It's a mater of Umb and DH thinking they don't have to respond to diplomatic greavences: "What you gonna do?"

[Tick1]

It's a mater of Umb and DH thinking they don't have to respond to diplomatic greavences: "What you gonna do?"

 

Congrats, you are better than the majority of all people in this thread. 

[Masterof9puppets]

Thread is now totally pointless as neither side will give up our beliefs,

 

filling puppets slots in a way that would allow him to reach PM to reload and hit AI repeatedly

 

Beliefs are beliefs, but the part I bolded simply didn't happen (and that's fact, not belief). The only alliances that filled my slots in a way that allowed me to reach PM to reload/hit AI repeatedly once more were MK/DT/and FOK. You know this, I know this, it's fact. I did not reload or declare a single war after that second round, nor have I launched a single attack on any nation that has hit me since. 

 

*goes back into post hibernation*

[Commander shepard]

Beliefs are beliefs, but the part I bolded simply didn't happen (and that's fact, not belief). The only alliances that filled my slots in a way that allowed me to reach PM to reload/hit AI repeatedly once more were MK/DT/and FOK. You know this, I know this, it's fact. I did not reload or declare a single war after that second round, nor have I launched a single attack on any nation that has hit me since. 

 

*goes back into post hibernation*

 

 

The fact is when Umbrella filled your slots you were at war with AI, belief would be that you would not declare again after already declaring twice.

You were a rogue, they would have to nuke you into oblivion.

You already lasted months after initially attacking them and  you're still here, would you let AI raid you for many months?

 

It also brings the question that you should never trust a rogue.

The fact is you stopped after AI attacked Umbrella.

And the fact is AI attacking Umbrella is the reason you're not at war with them anymore.

[chefjoe]

Beliefs are beliefs, but the part I bolded simply didn't happen (and that's fact, not belief). The only alliances that filled my slots in a way that allowed me to reach PM to reload/hit AI repeatedly once more were MK/DT/and FOK. You know this, I know this, it's fact. I did not reload or declare a single war after that second round, nor have I launched a single attack on any nation that has hit me since. 

 

*goes back into post hibernation*

 

Oh cmon puppets we all know and saw the decs from Umbrella filling your Def slots within minutes of you coming out of PK reloaded and stocked. The mighty hand of admin did eventually delete those wars but we were at alliance war stage by that point so your slots were moot at that point, but the fact remains they WERE filled by Umbrella, within minutes and now here we are all having fun blowing shit up. Just because you mentioned AFTER the fact you would not be hitting AI again(supposedly) makes no difference at all since you sure as hell didnt communicate that to AI, and for AI to think you wouldnt do the same thiing you did the round before(goto PM restock, come out, hit AI) is the height of foolishness considering no one is a mind reader around these parts. Had you communicated with AI saying that the round would be the last one against us 'may' have gotten us to take you at your word and lay off but you did not do that, and hence here we are. Simple, not even close to rocket science my man.

[Tick1]

The fact is when Umbrella filled your slots you were at war with AI, belief would be that you would not declare again after already declaring twice.

You were a rogue, they would have to nuke you into oblivion.

You already lasted months after initially attacking them and  you're still here, would you let AI raid you for many months?

 

It also brings the question that you should never trust a rogue.

The fact is you stopped after AI attacked Umbrella.

And the fact is AI attacking Umbrella is the reason you're not at war with them anymore.

 

 

Oh cmon puppets we all know and saw the decs from Umbrella filling your Def slots within minutes of you coming out of PK reloaded and stocked. The mighty hand of admin did eventually delete those wars but we were at alliance war stage by that point so your slots were moot at that point, but the fact remains they WERE filled by Umbrella, within minutes and now here we are all having fun blowing shit up. Just because you mentioned AFTER the fact you would not be hitting AI again(supposedly) makes no difference at all since you sure as hell didnt communicate that to AI, and for AI to think you wouldnt do the same thiing you did the round before(goto PM restock, come out, hit AI) is the height of foolishness considering no one is a mind reader around these parts. Had you communicated with AI saying that the round would be the last one against us 'may' have gotten us to take you at your word and lay off but you did not do that, and hence here we are. Simple, not even close to rocket science my man.

 

I'll refer you both back to here 

 

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?/topic/115557-why-the-war/?p=3103036

 

please refute it in a different way than, 'The almighty admin did it, therefor it must be true.' or recognize the truth in the statement.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Tick1

[Commander shepard]

I wasn't really talking about slot filling, more that Umbrella filled his slots so he could not be staggered.

If they were active they would most likely have locked the thread and say it was not "A" because Umbrella were not filling slots because they were attacking normally.

I believe it just took 6 days because it took 6 days for them to decide, not because you went 50 hours(your fault) without attacking after supposedly doing attacks on all the previous days.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Commander shepard

[Masterof9puppets]

The fact is when Umbrella filled your slots you were at war with AI, belief would be that you would not declare again after already declaring twice.

You were a rogue, they would have to nuke you into oblivion.

You already lasted months after initially attacking them and  you're still here, would you let AI raid you for many months?

 

It also brings the question that you should never trust a rogue.

The fact is you stopped after AI attacked Umbrella.

And the fact is AI attacking Umbrella is the reason you're not at war with them anymore.

 

 

Oh cmon puppets we all know and saw the decs from Umbrella filling your Def slots within minutes of you coming out of PK reloaded and stocked. The mighty hand of admin did eventually delete those wars but we were at alliance war stage by that point so your slots were moot at that point, but the fact remains they WERE filled by Umbrella, within minutes and now here we are all having fun blowing shit up. Just because you mentioned AFTER the fact you would not be hitting AI again(supposedly) makes no difference at all since you sure as hell didnt communicate that to AI, and for AI to think you wouldnt do the same thiing you did the round before(goto PM restock, come out, hit AI) is the height of foolishness considering no one is a mind reader around these parts. Had you communicated with AI saying that the round would be the last one against us 'may' have gotten us to take you at your word and lay off but you did not do that, and hence here we are. Simple, not even close to rocket science my man.

 

 

Beliefs are beliefs, but the part I bolded simply didn't happen (and that's fact, not belief). The only alliances that filled my slots in a way that allowed me to reach PM to reload/hit AI repeatedly once more were MK/DT/and FOK. You know this, I know this, it's fact. I did not reload or declare a single war after that second round, nor have I launched a single attack on any nation that has hit me since. 

 

*goes back into post hibernation*

 

Neither of your responses have anything to do with what I just said. CJ earlier said "(Umbrella) filling puppets slots in a way that would allow him to reach PM to reload and hit AI repeatedly" I did not reload and hit AI repeatedly, therefore it didn't not have allowed me to do so. That's all, you can all chill. 

 

Just because you mentioned AFTER the fact you would not be hitting AI again(supposedly)

I mentioned before the fact, somewhere in my initial topic. There is no "supposedly", I haven't hit AI (or anyone) since. Your lot can lie and say "oh but he could have been lying!" all you want, it was known by anyone in AI that had a brain and could read my posts and/or was spying me that I blew the entirety of my 4.5bil warchest on that second round of war. If I wanted to continue past a second round, I clearly would not have blown all my cash. 

 

You already lasted months after initially attacking them and you're still here, would you let AI raid you for many months?

 

You may want to fact check this one.^

[Commander shepard]

You may want to fact check this one.^

 

Someone in AI raided you?

[Caliph]

And here comes Puppets to set the lot of you strait. Doesn't change this war, but it does let you know how wrong your side was about many assertations you made.

[ChairmanHal]

Congrats, you are better than the majority of all people in this thread. 

 

Some of us have been on to Puppet's and Umbrella's game for a very long time.

 

 

Neither of your responses have anything to do with what I just said. CJ earlier said "(Umbrella) filling puppets slots in a way that would allow him to reach PM to reload and hit AI repeatedly" I did not reload and hit AI repeatedly, therefore it didn't not have allowed me to do so. That's all, you can all chill. 

 

I mentioned before the fact, somewhere in my initial topic. There is no "supposedly", I haven't hit AI (or anyone) since. Your lot can lie and say "oh but he could have been lying!" all you want, it was known by anyone in AI that had a brain and could read my posts and/or was spying me that I blew the entirety of my 4.5bil warchest on that second round of war. If I wanted to continue past a second round, I clearly would not have blown all my cash. 

 

 

You may want to fact check this one.^

 

You set out on a mission and accomplished it.  You continue to collect, pay bills, and have switched back to Black team.  If you are staying off the Umbrella AA now it's because your alliance would have a perception problem and it doesn't wish to hand its enemies a PR victory.  You aren't roguing out because you were never a rogue to start with and when the time is right, you'll rejoin your comrades. You were never given BIBO, and not a single Umbrella nuke has found you since you left, because you never left.  It's not hard.

[Masterof9puppets]

Someone in AI raided you?

 

"you lasted months"

 

Some of us have been on to Puppet's and Umbrella's game for a very long time.

 

 

 

You set out on a mission and accomplished it.  You continue to collect, pay bills, and have switched back to Black team.  If you are staying off the Umbrella AA now it's because your alliance would have a perception problem and it doesn't wish to hand its enemies a PR victory.  You aren't roguing out because you were never a rogue to start with and when the time is right, you'll rejoin your comrades. You were never given BIBO, and not a single Umbrella nuke has found you since you left, because you never left.  It's not hard.

 

• Yes, I did accomplish my mission. Not a mission that anyone but myself gave me, mind you, before you twist those words.
• I've been on the black team since halfway through my second round of wars, which is when my sanction was dropped. 
• I continue to collect and pay bills because I am sending out all of my tech
• I'm not on the Umbrella AA because I'm not playing the game anymore
• I will be on the Kronos AA until my nation deletes. My nation will delete when all of my tech is sent out. 
• I am not rouging anymore because I a.) have no time to, b.) have no money to c.) have no desire to, d.) my mission only involved two rounds of war
• I am not rejoining Umbrella "when the time is right", because the time won't be right. See bullet 5.
• I was not given BIBO because my wars were deleted halfway through the round, because my slots have been filled since, and because Umbrella happens to be at war
• Three (four?) Umbrella nukes have found me since I left. You know this

Keep trying though, you're looking real smart.

[Commander shepard]

"you lasted months"

 

I thought you started your downward spiral in December.

It is almost March now.

[Masterof9puppets]

I thought you started your downward spiral in December.

It is almost March now.

 

I lasted a few weeks, I haven't launched an attack since. My nation has lasted sure, but that doesn't really require much.

[Amossio]

Some of us have been on to Puppet's and Umbrella's game for a very long time.

 

 

 

You set out on a mission and accomplished it.  You continue to collect, pay bills, and have switched back to Black team.  If you are staying off the Umbrella AA now it's because your alliance would have a perception problem and it doesn't wish to hand its enemies a PR victory.  You aren't roguing out because you were never a rogue to start with and when the time is right, you'll rejoin your comrades. You were never given BIBO, and not a single Umbrella nuke has found you since you left, because you never left.  It's not hard.

Hal I have a lot respect for ya bud, I know we don't see eye to eye on some issues but puppets did leave the aa at the time, not spinning not bs, but he did have the intent to go rogue mate. Neither of us did everything poss to avoid a conflict, in fact both of our sides probably needed and wanted a conflict. I knew it was coming given the talks I had with certain people, knew months ago NPO and co were preparing for a war with intent for it to happen. Puppets just gave the CB which is the main point of debating at the current moment. Whether it's valid or invalid it still doesn't take the fact you and others wanted a shot at MK and goons whilst having to take us out in order to achieve taking down the rest of dh.

[ChairmanHal]

"you lasted months"

 

 

• Yes, I did accomplish my mission. Not a mission that anyone but myself gave me, mind you, before you twist those words.
• I've been on the black team since halfway through my second round of wars, which is when my sanction was dropped. 
• I continue to collect and pay bills because I am sending out all of my tech
• I'm not on the Umbrella AA because I'm not playing the game anymore
• I will be on the Kronos AA until my nation deletes. My nation will delete when all of my tech is sent out. 
• I am not rouging anymore because I a.) have no time to, b.) have no money to c.) have no desire to, d.) my mission only involved two rounds of war
• I am not rejoining Umbrella "when the time is right", because the time won't be right. See bullet 5.
• I was not given BIBO because my wars were deleted halfway through the round, because my slots have been filled since, and because Umbrella happens to be at war
• Three (four?) Umbrella nukes have found me since I left. You know this

Keep trying though, you're looking real smart.

 

1. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call you a liar.  Nothing personal, but very little you've said regarding your intentions or Umbrella's intentions matches with the observable facts.

2. This brings up another question...why were your sanctioned dropped?  No longer a threat?  I'm not buying it.  Actually you were still attacking and nuking AI nations at the time.  So either Umbrella and the senators on Black support nuke roguing or...you were never a nuke rogue.

3. Yep, you are indeed sending out tech, which given the fact that you are in a more or less constant state of war, missing a Uranium trade at the moment, and by your own admission getting low on funds is about the only avenue you have left to you to aid your alliance...which Umbrella accepts cheerfully--making them party to accepting aid from a nuke rogue, something that is frowned upon generally.

4. You are indeed "playing the game", through other means.

5. We will see about that, won't we?  Tell ya what, if you're here in six months, you may issue an apology and send me all the tech you nuked off me at the start of your little adventure.

6. No means to do so perhaps, but plenty of time...it takes little time to find an Uranium source on Grey and hit the blue 'launch' button, less time than it takes to send out aid.

7. See #5.

8. Absolutely nothing stopped Umbrella from re-declaring on you and finishing the BIBO before the war started.  It is by their own words mandatory and by their words and actions, takes precedence over even the desires and claims of other alliances.

9. Well, well...Lusitan did manage to sneak in two on you in the middle of what you call 'round two', eh?  If memory serves he was by no means the highest tech nation on you at that point (the other nations in play have all taken substantial tech hits since) so his nukes actually kept you from getting damaged worse.  Truth be told, he also screwed up a stagger and of course didn't coordinate.  I'll grant you that my initial assertion may have been off, but two does not equal six and there's more than one way to slot fill.  Personally if I were you, I'd feel cheated...if I were in fact "quitting".

 

See ya in six months, chief.  I'll want my tech.   <_<

[ChairmanHal]

Hal I have a lot respect for ya bud, I know we don't see eye to eye on some issues but puppets did leave the aa at the time, not spinning not bs, but he did have the intent to go rogue mate. Neither of us did everything poss to avoid a conflict, in fact both of our sides probably needed and wanted a conflict. I knew it was coming given the talks I had with certain people, knew months ago NPO and co were preparing for a war with intent for it to happen. Puppets just gave the CB which is the main point of debating at the current moment. Whether it's valid or invalid it still doesn't take the fact you and others wanted a shot at MK and goons whilst having to take us out in order to achieve taking down the rest of dh.

 

The whole thing smells bad, you have to admit.  What I don't get is this: Umbrella fights best when they are held in reserve and then land as a counter punch in support of an attack by other alliances.  Why allow yourself to be maneuvered into a dogfight with a bunch of berserkers?  You knew the rep of Olympus, BAPS, and Valhalla.  You could pretty much figure out that we'd punch above our weight class and would take an absolute mauling and come back for more.  You also had to figure we wouldn't come alone.  You had outs on this fight and could have lined up a more even slugging match had you been patient but you didn't.

 

I think you miss a former member of yours, a strategist with few peers, more than you realize.

[magicninja]

I heard the war was started over a moderation issue.

[ArneS]

9. Well, well...Lusitan did manage to sneak in two on you in the middle of what you call 'round two', eh?  If memory serves he was by no means the highest tech nation on you at that point (the other nations in play have all taken substantial tech hits since) so his nukes actually kept you from getting damaged worse.  

 

Your memory doesn't serve you well.

[Masterof9puppets]

1. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call you a liar.  Nothing personal, but very little you've said regarding your intentions or Umbrella's intentions matches with the observable facts.

2. This brings up another question...why were your sanctioned dropped?  No longer a threat?  I'm not buying it.  Actually you were still attacking and nuking AI nations at the time.  So either Umbrella and the senators on Black support nuke roguing or...you were never a nuke rogue.

3. Yep, you are indeed sending out tech, which given the fact that you are in a more or less constant state of war, missing a Uranium trade at the moment, and by your own admission getting low on funds is about the only avenue you have left to you to aid your alliance...which Umbrella accepts cheerfully--making them party to accepting aid from a nuke rogue, something that is frowned upon generally.

4. You are indeed "playing the game", through other means.

5. We will see about that, won't we?  Tell ya what, if you're here in six months, you may issue an apology and send me all the tech you nuked off me at the start of your little adventure.

6. No means to do so perhaps, but plenty of time...it takes little time to find an Uranium source on Grey and hit the blue 'launch' button, less time than it takes to send out aid.

7. See #5.

8. Absolutely nothing stopped Umbrella from re-declaring on you and finishing the BIBO before the war started.  It is by their own words mandatory and by their words and actions, takes precedence over even the desires and claims of other alliances.

9. Well, well...Lusitan did manage to sneak in two on you in the middle of what you call 'round two', eh?  If memory serves he was by no means the highest tech nation on you at that point (the other nations in play have all taken substantial tech hits since) so his nukes actually kept you from getting damaged worse.  Truth be told, he also screwed up a stagger and of course didn't coordinate.  I'll grant you that my initial assertion may have been off, but two does not equal six and there's more than one way to slot fill.  Personally if I were you, I'd feel cheated...if I were in fact "quitting".

 

See ya in six months, chief.  I'll want my tech.   <_<

 

1. Calling me a liar doesn't make me so, you're still incorrect until you can prove otherwise.
2. The sanction was dropped because the senator who dropped it probably thinks the people I was roguing against are pricks. I sent a polite message to the three black team senators asking it to be dropped, one of them obliged. Probably GOONS, who cares.
3. It's the only avenue I have left to aid Umbrella, yes. If I wanted other avenues to do so, I wouldn't have spent my entire warchest- are you daft or is it actually hard to understand? Of course Umbrella accepts the tech cheerfully, it's fucking essentially unlimited free tech during war. Accepting aid from a rogue that happens to be on the same side of a global war is actually not generally frowned upon.
4. Logging in every ten days, paying bills, and sending out 300 tech is only "playing the game" by mere semantics. By my definition, which is the only one that matters in this circumstance, "playing the game" would be actively playing. Responding to attacks, defending my nation, etc.
5. Whether my nation will be here in six months or not depends on how much I get nuked. Without nukes, it will take a year to send out the remainder of my tech. With daily nukes and depending on their efficiency, it could be a lot sooner. Either way, you will never receive an apology or tech reparations from me. 
6. You overestimate the amount of free time I have. The only reason I'm able to be on here right now is due to spring break just starting. Generally, my major involves me staying awake for 72 hours, sleeping for 10, and repeating. Constantly. Which is why I quit the game. But even if you count out time, that leaves my other point- I have no desire to launch any further attacks. I don't care about anything IC in the slightest. 
7. Not respondable 
8. I believe my wars were deleted around the same time that AI and co declared on Umbrella. This would leave Umbrella in anarchy and unable to declare on me. If not, the wars were deleted right before the attack, in which case Umbrella was preparing for the attack and obviously not going to waste resources on nuking me. Especially when doing so was deemed slot filling by admin. 
9. Your memory serves false, Lusitan had by far the most tech of any nation that I was at war with. Like, by a minimum 6,000 tech far iirc.

 

 

The whole thing smells bad, you have to admit.  What I don't get is this: Umbrella fights best when they are held in reserve and then land as a counter punch in support of an attack by other alliances.  Why allow yourself to be maneuvered into a dogfight with a bunch of berserkers?  You knew the rep of Olympus, BAPS, and Valhalla.  You could pretty much figure out that we'd punch above our weight class and would take an absolute mauling and come back for more.  You also had to figure we wouldn't come alone.  You had outs on this fight and could have lined up a more even slugging match had you been patient but you didn't.

 

I think you miss a former member of yours, a strategist with few peers, more than you realize.

 

Precisely. Why would they? Because they weren't involved in my going rogue. If I was indeed "sent on a mission", it would have been postponed until more alliances were in Umbrella's coalition. There was no coalition, because my going rogue was my plan, and my plan only.

 

Of course they miss Roquentin. Roquentin was pretty rad, before he lost his mind.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Masterof9puppets

[Caliph]

1. I'm sorry, but I'm going to have to call you a liar.  Nothing personal, but very little you've said regarding your intentions or Umbrella's intentions matches with the observable facts.

2. This brings up another question...why were your sanctioned dropped?  No longer a threat?  I'm not buying it.  Actually you were still attacking and nuking AI nations at the time.  So either Umbrella and the senators on Black support nuke roguing or...you were never a nuke rogue.

3. Yep, you are indeed sending out tech, which given the fact that you are in a more or less constant state of war, missing a Uranium trade at the moment, and by your own admission getting low on funds is about the only avenue you have left to you to aid your alliance...which Umbrella accepts cheerfully--making them party to accepting aid from a nuke rogue, something that is frowned upon generally.

4. You are indeed "playing the game", through other means.

5. We will see about that, won't we?  Tell ya what, if you're here in six months, you may issue an apology and send me all the tech you nuked off me at the start of your little adventure.

6. No means to do so perhaps, but plenty of time...it takes little time to find an Uranium source on Grey and hit the blue 'launch' button, less time than it takes to send out aid.

7. See #5.

8. Absolutely nothing stopped Umbrella from re-declaring on you and finishing the BIBO before the war started.  It is by their own words mandatory and by their words and actions, takes precedence over even the desires and claims of other alliances.

9. Well, well...Lusitan did manage to sneak in two on you in the middle of what you call 'round two', eh?  If memory serves he was by no means the highest tech nation on you at that point (the other nations in play have all taken substantial tech hits since) so his nukes actually kept you from getting damaged worse.  Truth be told, he also screwed up a stagger and of course didn't coordinate.  I'll grant you that my initial assertion may have been off, but two does not equal six and there's more than one way to slot fill.  Personally if I were you, I'd feel cheated...if I were in fact "quitting".

 

See ya in six months, chief.  I'll want my tech.   <_<

 

Why would we send more people to attack Puppets when the first 3 we sent were deemed slot filling by Admin [b]despite[/b] them doing more damage to Puppets than the AI nations did?  We were damaging Puppets, it was deemed slot filing and wars deleted.  Why would we send more people at Puppets only to have those war deleted too?

[Masterof9puppets]

Why would we send more people to attack Puppets when the first 3 we sent were deemed slot filling by Admin despite them doing more damage to Puppets than the AI nations did?  We were damaging Puppets, it was deemed slot filing and wars deleted.  Why would we send more people at Puppets only to have those war deleted too?

 

Careful, ChairmanHal and Co don't take kindly to reason.

 

Edit: Facts too. They seem to have an allergic reaction to hard facts.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Masterof9puppets

[Ogaden]

Roquentin was pretty rad, before he lost his mind.

 

You mean before he said Umbrella shouldn't be so far up MK's butt, and was hounded out of his own alliance as a result?  Clearly madness.