A FOK!ing announcement

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='EgoFreaky' timestamp='1334241152' post='2951465']
We would, noone likes being even with you guys
[/quote]

We are in 2 blocs?

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334164218' post='2951112']
GOONS and Umbrella are naturally unreliable allies.
[/quote]
Here, let me make a list of times when we've failed to assist somebody who requested it:

1.

Oh, that's right, we've never done that.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Sardonic

[BombaAriba]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334164218' post='2951112']
Who is actually doing that?[/quote]
I don't think this is the place nor the time to publish that information. You're not informed for a reason.

[quote]GOONS and Umbrella are naturally unreliable allies. If DH and your interests clash, not hard to see where they'll go.[/quote]
DH and PB are on the same side of the web so I don't think our interests clash. And can you support that 'they're unreliable' statement?

[quote]I love the private channels ftw reasoning behind this post and that the thread was entirely positive until big bad Roq came around. What do you think I've been doing?[/quote]
Building an army to destroy PB and all that, I guess.

[Monster]

[quote name='BombaAriba' timestamp='1334255520' post='2951523']
I don't think this is the place nor the time to publish that information. You're not informed for a reason.
[/quote]

I know who you think wants to do it anyway. It's pretty obvious and the list of suspects has always been limited.

[quote name='BombaAriba']DH and PB are on the same side of the web so I don't think our interests clash. And can you support that 'they're unreliable' statement?[/quote]

Then your R&R treaty will be a real issue, because DH/PB dislike R&R as evidenced by the posting in this thread. I think that's a potential root of conflict for you, definitely. They will never be on the same side in all likelihood. Basically, if it ever comes to a head, it won't be pretty. They're unreliable because unless you sign on to their agenda 100%, which can include screwing your allies over, they will do their best to damage you.

In addition, I'm not that big about all of PB getting on destroyed. Just three alliances, which don't include yours and VE.

Sardonic says he never turned down a request for assistance, but he did cancel a treaty before it could happen.

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334256025' post='2951528']
Then your R&R treaty will be a real issue, because DH/PB dislike R&R as evidenced by the posting in this thread. I think that's a potential root of conflict for you, definitely. They will never be on the same side in all likelihood. Basically, if it ever comes to a head, it won't be pretty. They're unreliable because unless you sign on to their agenda 100%, which can include screwing your allies over, they will do their best to damage you.

In addition, I'm not that big about all of PB getting on destroyed. Just three alliances, which don't include yours and VE.

Sardonic says he never turned down a request for assistance, but he did cancel a treaty before it could happen.
[/quote]

!@#$, I thought we were off the list

[Monster]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1334263378' post='2951578']
!@#$, I thought we were off the list
[/quote]


I mean, even if you were, would it really make a difference?

[kriekfreak]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334263474' post='2951579']
I mean, even if you were, would it really make a difference?
[/quote]

Yes, we would thank Jezus for such a wonder.

[Rodger Waldie]

[quote name='kriekfreak' timestamp='1334263378' post='2951578']
!@#$, I thought we were off the list
[/quote]
there a list ?
again congradz to the new FOK GOV

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334256025' post='2951528']
I know who you think wants to do it anyway. It's pretty obvious and the list of suspects has always been limited.



Then your R&R treaty will be a real issue, because DH/PB dislike R&R
[/quote]
I don't particularly dislike R&R, and I haven't seen much dislike for them in DH and PB, though I question their fence-sitting between two blocs of arguably shifting political narratives.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334254203' post='2951517']
Here, let me make a list of times when we've failed to assist somebody who requested it:

1.

Oh, that's right, we've never done that.
[/quote]

I don't know how the "request" system works, but you've left allies on the battlefield before. Going back to NPO, continuing on to Polar, etc... A more recent case would be when you canceled on CSN; promised them you'd do everything you could to keep them from being hit, and then hit them a few weeks later.

[quote name='BombaAriba' timestamp='1334255520' post='2951523']
DH and PB are on the same side of the web so I don't think our interests clash. And can you support that 'they're unreliable' statement?
[/quote]

Except for a hiccup here and there, I think Umbrella is a fairly reliable alliance.

[Monster]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334266245' post='2951605']
I don't know how the "request" system works, but you've left allies on the battlefield before. Going back to NPO, continuing on to Polar, etc... A more recent case would be when you canceled on CSN; promised them you'd do everything you could to keep them from being hit, and then hit them a few weeks later.



Except for a hiccup here and there, I think Umbrella is a fairly reliable alliance.
[/quote]

I don't really agree. Unless reliable means loyal to DH, that's something you can count on. As for other treaties, I don't think so. Most people in the alliance are not informed at all and couldn't figure out that one of their allies had significant issues with another until I was very loud about it. Not sure what they actually thought. I mean, it should have not been been hard to see that Sparta would have a negative view of MK, called using a brain. I mean, before I even started, it was fairly obvious that Sparta wanted a change of course in Umbrella's FA and JoshuaR's response was "Well domisi treefinguy didn't say they were going to do anything, but they said they'd be good leaders(contradiction in itself)."

Another instance is the only reason Alpha Omega did not enter the last war was that Sparta did not call them in. No one in Umbrella government had taken the possibility of AO entering for Sparta into consideration until I mentioned it to Natan.


So let's see who Umbrella cares about: DH, Deinos, ODN, and no one else really.
Sardonic: Um, MK has torn into R&R repeatedly, and it was even a goal to specifically hammer them on the UINE terms for people like Azaghul to undermine R&R.

Edited April 12, 2012 by Roquentin

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Omniscient1' timestamp='1334266245' post='2951605']
I don't know how the "request" system works, but you've left allies on the battlefield before. Going back to NPO,
[/quote]
Oh please. As if what few nations we had at the time of our formation could have provided any meaningful assistance in that conflict, nor was it requested.
[quote]
continuing on to Polar,
[/quote]
They didn't request our assistance either that I can recall, and given that Grub was their head at the time, you can hardly blame us for not jumping at the bit.
[quote]
etc...
[/quote]
You're not really establishing a pattern, if that's what you're going for.
[quote]
A more recent case would be when you canceled on CSN; promised them you'd do everything you could to keep them from being hit, and then hit them a few weeks later.
[/quote]
I can't seem to recall promising anything of the sort. Regardless, the treaty was not cancelled for political reasons, it was cancelled because our government felt a lack of connection meriting a tie, and the treaty itself in many people's eyes was not properly vetted.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334270074' post='2951636']
Oh please. As if what few nations we had at the time of our formation could have provided any meaningful assistance in that conflict, nor was it requested.

They didn't request our assistance either that I can recall, and given that Grub was their head at the time, you can hardly blame us for not jumping at the bit.
[/quote]

That's fine if you didn't support their political positions. You can actually just say that instead of saying "well they never asked us to help them." That's a pretty big cop out.

[quote]
I can't seem to recall promising anything of the sort. Regardless, the treaty was not cancelled for political reasons, it was cancelled because our government felt a lack of connection meriting a tie, and the treaty itself in many people's eyes was not properly vetted.
[/quote]

I'm too lazy to go get what was said exactly. I really don't care either way. I don't understand how you can sign a MDoAP with someone one day and then a few months later decide that the treaty was a mistake. I mean I guess I could understand it if there was a government change or something.

I guess that's what happens when you sign with anyone who bats their eye lashes at you.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Omniscient1

[Monster]

Wow, you're really turning the heat up there, Omni. *bats eyelashes*

But yeah, MK-R&R = bad relations. Congrats again to Ecnelis.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Roquentin

[Liz Girard]

[quote name='Sardonic' timestamp='1334270074' post='2951636']
Oh please. As if what few nations we had at the time of our formation could have provided any meaningful assistance in that conflict, nor was it requested.

They didn't request our assistance either that I can recall, and given that Grub was their head at the time, you can hardly blame us for not jumping at the bit.

You're not really establishing a pattern, if that's what you're going for.

I can't seem to recall promising anything of the sort. Regardless, the treaty was not cancelled for political reasons, it was cancelled because our government felt a lack of connection meriting a tie, and the treaty itself in many people's eyes was not properly vetted.
[/quote]

So along with gutless coward, I can add liar to the list? Duly noted.

Edit: Congrats ecnelis
We'll do cake

Edited April 13, 2012 by Liz Girard

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Liz Girard' timestamp='1334287437' post='2951760']
So along with gutless coward, I can add liar to the list? Duly noted.
[/quote]
We are all beholden to our memberships, and I answered mine. With vindictive posts like these you only further prove that I made the right decision. Upon signing our treaty though, yes, I did say I would do what I could do to assist in your security, as any good treaty partner would say. I was not aware the circumstance would occur after the fact where the treaty was cancelled. I did not lie, I merely could not see the future, and for the duration of our treaty I did actively advocate for your interests.

And I fail to see how any of my history makes me a "gutless coward". The decision to cancel had nothing to do with making war between our spheres more convenient for our allies, and everything to do with the fact that my government did not feel a sufficient social connection to warrant a MDP level treaty, you know this.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Sardonic

[pd73bassman]

Congrats FOK

[rsoxbronco1]

[quote name='Liz Girard' timestamp='1334287437' post='2951760']
So along with gutless coward, I can add liar to the list? Duly noted.
[/quote]
I didn't know it hadn't been added yet.

Wrong topic...I meant to say congrats to FOK!

Edited April 13, 2012 by rsoxbronco1

[BombaAriba]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334278086' post='2951697']
Wow, you're really turning the heat up there, Omni. *bats eyelashes*

But yeah, MK-R&R = bad relations. Congrats again to Ecnelis.
[/quote]

You now that we got a good direct relationship with R&R? Why would that be a problem? Direct allies come for secondlinkallies. And PB is happy with R&R, only not with the location they're at.

[Monster]

[quote name='BombaAriba' timestamp='1334315361' post='2952083']
You now that we got a good direct relationship with R&R? Why would that be a problem? Direct allies come for secondlinkallies. And PB is happy with R&R, only not with the location they're at.
[/quote]

Because they could easily clash and it puts a FOK ally vs another PB alliance and since MK has 3 allies in PB, you'd be expected to side with MK over R&R. That's all.

[Garion]

C'mon, we all know FOK! are the fifth column of SF and XX, secretly working for us in PB

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Garion' timestamp='1334319967' post='2952107']
C'mon, we all know FOK! are the fifth column of SF and XX, secretly working for us in PB
[/quote]
nah, that was just Tromp.

[Monster]

He didn't really make it a secret if he was doing anything and at least he was an independent leader unlike the vast majority of you. In fact, I'd say he had his own positions, which included not wanting his oldest ally to get rolled, and not necessarily connected to one bloc winning or whatever, kind of why he wasn't big on PB at the end. He is one of the more proactive and competent people around when he is active. People just don't like him if he doesn't do what you want. A major point he had made is that he had always looked out for MK's interests, but it was not being reciprocated with their actions, so he stopped doing that. Pretty smart actually.

Edited April 13, 2012 by Roquentin

[BombaAriba]

[quote name='Roquentin' timestamp='1334341499' post='2952326']
People just don't like him if he doesn't do what you want.
[/quote]
Isn't that the same for everyone? If I don't do what you want, you wouldn't be happy with me.

[Monster]

[quote name='BombaAriba' timestamp='1334521587' post='2953840']
Isn't that the same for everyone? If I don't do what you want, you wouldn't be happy with me.
[/quote]

To some degree, yes. However, with Tromp there is a particularly high level of vitriol that people have against him.