Citizens United

[dev0win]

No you silly rabbit. I'm trying to point out that Legion does not have this big advantage that you keep alluding to. Nice change of story btw =)

And I have no grudge against you? If you recall I sent you aid myself not too long ago after the last global? But you are being ridiculous in this thread.. and wrong. Lots of wrong.

Edited October 14, 2011 by dev0win

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='dev0win' timestamp='1318634618' post='2825236']
No you silly rabbit. I'm trying to point out that Legion does not have this big advantage that you keep alluding to. Nice change of story btw =)

And I have no grudge against you? If you recall I sent you aid myself not too long ago after the last global? But you are being ridiculous in this thread.. and wrong. Lots of wrong.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Where did I say huge advantage? I said slight advantage. In the upper tier of this war the advantage is clearly Legion's. Trying to factor in two non-factors, such as IAA and BTA, is rather dishonest. I do not care if they are on my "side." They are useless, and I will state the truth of that simple matter.

Also, I have not changed my story at all. I have been one of the few consistent people here. Perhaps my points may not be as simple as "OMG FIVE ON ONE" or "OMG COMPLETELY EQUAL," as my messages are a bit more complex than the unwashed masses, including yourself, are used to digesting, but do not mistake that for inconsistency.[/color]

[William Blake]

[quote name='dev0win' timestamp='1318633675' post='2825222']
Yes you guys are SOOOO [url="https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AqoKxlQUYv4ldEJxcnlQaEpaOXlaaXp3ODAwTW4xSGc#gid=0"]disadvantaged[/url]...

You have about 25 members that are in an "outmatched" tier but dominate both the top15 and the bottom 190, with an overall average of 88% advantage 1 to 1 ans(see spreadsheet if that doesn't make sense).


[color="#DDA0DD"]Legion ANS: 20586.550697479 [/color]
[color="#008000"]Tetris and Co: 20401.6473346303[/color]

[color="#DDA0DD"]Legion Total Membership: 238[/color]
[color="#008000"]Tetris and Co: 257[/color]

[color="#DDA0DD"]Legion Total NS: 4,902,743[/color]
[color="#008000"]Tetris and Co: 5,350,538[/color]
*These are current NS's and Tetris and Co have suffered greater losses than Legion and this disparity was greater at the start of the war in favor of Tetris and Co

Tier breakdown(From Tetris and Co Perspective)
Average +/- member to member Tetris/Legion
_____________________
[color="#00FF00"]Top 15........115.48%[/color]
[color="#FFFF00"]16-25..........93.72%[/color]
[color="#FF8C00"]26-50..........84.72%[/color]
[color="#00FF00"]51-100.........99.29%
101-150.......169.84%
151-200.......190.05%
201-*.........440.36%[/color]

Maybe if NSO should start working with these "less than useless" alliances? Of course it's easier to blame failure on someone else rather than step up eh Rebel?


[edit]eww sorry for the evil colors... fixing[/edit]
[/quote]
The problem with just looking at the Coalition numbers against Legion is that you are counting IAA and BTA's numbers as if they were fighting. Those guys have about 12% of their potential max NS currently at war (meaning instead of IAA's 1.6 mil NS, they only have 176k fighting, for BTA it's like 80k out of 500k). Their numbers are simply serving to inflate the Tetris coalition's totals without actually contributing hardly anything tangible to the fight. If you took out those two alliances, the Tetris Coalition actually has much worse numbers than Legion in probably every category still (ANS, total NS, total nations, nukes, etc).

edit: punctuation

Edited October 14, 2011 by William Blake

[Tygaland]

[quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1318635025' post='2825243']
The problem with just looking at the Coalition numbers against Legion is that you are counting IAA and BTA's numbers as if they were fighting. Those guys have about 12% of their potential max NS currently at war (meaning instead of IAA's 1.6 mil NS, they only have 176k fighting, for BTA it's like 80k out of 500k). Their numbers are simply serving to inflate the Tetris coalition's totals without actually contributing hardly anything tangible to the fight. If you took out those two allliances, the Tetris Coalition actually has much worse numbers than Legion in probably every category still (ANS, total NS, total nations, nukes, etc).

edit: punctuation
[/quote]

And if I cut the horn off a unicorn it'd be a horse. It is not Legion's fault that IAA and BTA are not fighting to their full capacity so I'm not sure why the statistics for those alliances should be airbrushed out to make things look nicer for NSO and Tetris.

[dev0win]

Non participating members sounds like a personal problem. Maybe they need some trust falls and team building. Not Legions fault though, but thanks for pointing it out.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318635224' post='2825244']
And if I cut the horn off a unicorn it'd be a horse. It is not Legion's fault that IAA and BTA are not fighting to their full capacity so I'm not sure why the statistics for those alliances should be airbrushed out to make things look nicer for NSO and Tetris.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I do not think excluding them makes things look nicer for either side. Quite frankly I find the debate over statistic to be completely idiotc, as in this war they mean nothing. It is a battle of wills, not of strength, between NSO and Legion. All other parties are irrelevant.[/color]

[quote name='dev0win' timestamp='1318635273' post='2825246']
Non participating members sounds like a personal problem. Maybe they need some trust falls and team building. Not Legions fault though, but thanks for pointing it out.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Team building? Did you really just say something that silly? Lack of coordination has nothing to do with it. More it is the fact IAA membership feel their government screwed the pooch coming into this war. Frankly I agree with them. I personally felt their coming in was a mistake. The war should have been limited to Legion, Tetris, and the immediate allies of Tetris.[/color]

Edited October 14, 2011 by Rebel Virginia

[William Blake]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318635224' post='2825244']
And if I cut the horn off a unicorn it'd be a horse. It is not Legion's fault that IAA and BTA are not fighting to their full capacity so I'm not sure why the statistics for those alliances should be airbrushed out to make things look nicer for NSO and Tetris.
[/quote]
Never said anything of the sort. I was just trying to help explain to that other guy why RV's comments weren't unreasonable.

IAA wasn't ready to fight and clearly had no interest and their entrance was probably a foolish/short-sighted action taken by someone without consulting anyone else in his alliance. Don't know what BTA's story is, must just suck.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318635353' post='2825248']
[color="#0000FF"]I do not think excluding them makes things look nicer for either side. Quite frankly I find the debate over statistic to be completely idiotc, as in this war they mean nothing. It is a battle of wills, not of strength, between NSO and Legion. All other parties are irrelevant.[/color]
[/quote]

I couldn't care less about a debate over statistics, I merely commented that it is asinine to remove the statistics of alliances who are not fighting at maximum capacity to paint a better picture for that side.

Amusing that the alliance that started the war, Tetris, is now deemed irrelevant by you.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1318635485' post='2825249']
Never said anything of the sort. I was just trying to help explain to that other guy why RV's comments weren't unreasonable.
[/quote]

Statistically, his comments were nonsense which is why you decided to do some airbrushing and excuse-making to make the comment less nonsensical.

[quote]
IAA wasn't ready to fight and clearly had no interest and their entrance was probably a foolish/short-sighted action taken by someone without consulting anyone else in his alliance. Don't know what BTA's story is, must just suck.
[/quote]

IAA and BTA jumped in thinking it was going to escalate the war into a Legion and NpO stomp. Now they just look foolish and weak. Tough !@#$.

[Sabcat]

Putting my objective hat on for a moment.

I don't think RV's analysis is far wrong. in particular this is about the will to fight and accept being smashed up. I think more of NSO than I did a week ago.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318635489' post='2825250']
I couldn't care less about a debate over statistics, I merely commented that it is asinine to remove the statistics of alliances who are not fighting at maximum capacity to paint a better picture for that side.

Amusing that the alliance that started the war, Tetris, is now deemed irrelevant by you.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Tetris is a tough little alliance, however, NSO is the alliance doing the majority of the fighting. If Legion ever decides to end this it will be due to NSO. Likewise, Tetris's ability to keep this up depends just as much on NSO. NSO is the only alliance relevant to this war.

As for IAA, include them if you'd like. They are still useless though, and I'll not stand for people pretending that they're actually doing something. I do not give slaps on the back for incompetent performances just because an alliance happens to be on my "side." If they are terrible, underwhelming, incompetent, or disappointing I will call them on it.[/color]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Sabcat' timestamp='1318635678' post='2825253']
Putting my objective hat on for a moment.

I don't think RV's analysis is far wrong. in particular this is about the will to fight and accept being smashed up. I think more of NSO than I did a week ago.
[/quote]

That wasn't the initial topic of discussion, that was what RV changed it to when he realised, statistically speaking, he was wrong. You'll come to realise that debating RV's opinions is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. When you have him cornered he makes something else up entirely and you start again.

[Jtkode]

[quote]As for IAA, include them if you'd like. They are still useless though, and I'll not stand for people pretending that they're actually doing something. I do not give slaps on the back for incompetent performances just because an alliance happens to be on my "side." If they are terrible, underwhelming, incompetent, or disappointing I will call them on it. [/quote]

This statement right here is why [u]every[/u] alliance should strive to do the best they can.

[William Blake]

lol, settle down, Tyga. Why would I be making excuses for NSO? I was merely clarifying a point, not "air brushing".

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318635691' post='2825254']
[color="#0000FF"]Tetris is a tough little alliance, however, NSO is the alliance doing the majority of the fighting. If Legion ever decides to end this it will be due to NSO. Likewise, Tetris's ability to keep this up depends just as much on NSO. NSO is the only alliance relevant to this war.
[/quote]

[color="black"]
Then Tetris, IAA and BTA can peace out and leave you two to it then? Cool.
[/color]

[quote]
As for IAA, include them if you'd like. They are still useless though, and I'll not stand for people pretending that they're actually doing something. I do not give slaps on the back for incompetent performances just because an alliance happens to be on my "side." If they are terrible, underwhelming, incompetent, or disappointing I will call them on it.[/color]
[/quote]

They are included because they are at war with Legion. The usefulness or lackthereof is irrelevant. I'm not asking you to praise their efforts I am suggesting that airbrushing them out of any statistical analysis is done to make your side's situation look more dire.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318635787' post='2825256']
That wasn't the initial topic of discussion, that was what RV changed it to when he realised, statistically speaking, he was wrong. You'll come to realise that debating RV's opinions is like trying to nail jelly to a wall. When you have him cornered he makes something else up entirely and you start again.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Except for nearly a week I have said that this is a battle of wills. I'd dig through my older postings, but I really do not care enough so to do. Any commentary on statistics was my attempt to explain something to a fool. I won't deny that I did not come out looking great, but no one ever does when you engage in battle with a complete idiot. I simply care too much, and try to help these poor souls. When will I learn?[/color]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='William Blake' timestamp='1318635877' post='2825258']
lol, settle down, Tyga. Why would I be making excuses for NSO? I was merely clarifying a point, not "air brushing".
[/quote]

I have no idea why you are making excuses for the NSO. You were not clarifying anything other than giving air to the "if you ignore all the alliances that suck then NSO are fighting against great odds" argument.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318636034' post='2825260']
[color="#0000FF"]Except for nearly a week I have said that this is a battle of wills. I'd dig through my older postings, but I really do not care enough so to do. Any commentary on statistics was my attempt to explain something to a fool. I won't deny that I did not come out looking great, but no one ever does when you engage in battle with a complete idiot. I simply care too much, and try to help these poor souls. When will I learn?[/color]
[/quote]

I'm not denying it is a "battle of wills". What I am saying is that your assertion that NSO is fighting against the odds is, statistically speaking, nonsense and that combatting that fact with "but IAA and BTA suck so if we remove them then we are fighting against the odds" is equally nonsensical.

It isn't Legion's fault that some of those that decided to fight with Tetris are horribly disorganised and not fully committed so I'm not sure why any statistical anaylsis of the war needs to be adjusted to compensate for that lack of organisation and commitment.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318635952' post='2825259']
[color="black"]
Then Tetris, IAA and BTA can peace out and leave you two to it then? Cool.
[/color]



They are included because they are at war with Legion. The usefulness or lackthereof is irrelevant. I'm not asking you to praise their efforts I am suggesting that airbrushing them out of any statistical analysis is done to make your side's situation look more dire.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I do not consider the NSO's situation dire at all. Our spirits are high and we're enjoying ourselves. We'll do far more damage than we'll take (Whether that is due to anything special on our end or just the fact we're so small we have next to nothing to lose I'll leave that to someone else to decide), and we'll come out satisfied. I have no reason to manipulate statistics. Quite frankly I despise statistics. All that matters to me is Truth.

As for Tetris, IAA, and BTA. They may. I could care less. Though it might be best if IAA disposes that idiot leader of theirs (I put James Wilson in the same category I do individuals such as berbers) and apologizes to Legion and its allies when they do inevitable depart the war.[/color]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318636258' post='2825263']
[color="#0000FF"]I do not consider the NSO's situation dire at all. Our spirits are high and we're enjoying ourselves. We'll do far more damage than we'll take (Whether that is due to anything special on our end or just the fact we're so small we have next to nothing to lose I'll leave that to someone else to decide), and we'll come out satisfied. I have no reason to manipulate statistics. Quite frankly I despise statistics. All that matters to me is Truth.
[/quote]

[color=black]
You complained earlier about arguing with idiots then you post this which shows you did not read what I said. To help you out, I said the manipulated statistics were manipulated to make your situation [i]look more dire[/i], that is, make it seem that you are fighting against greater odds than you really are. I did not say your situation was dire.
[/color]
[/color]

Edited October 14, 2011 by Tygaland

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318636244' post='2825262']
I'm not denying it is a "battle of wills". What I am saying is that your assertion that NSO is fighting against the odds is, statistically speaking, nonsense and that combatting that fact with "but IAA and BTA suck so if we remove them then we are fighting against the odds" is equally nonsensical.

It isn't Legion's fault that some of those that decided to fight with Tetris are horribly disorganised and not fully committed so I'm not sure why any statistical anaylsis of the war needs to be adjusted to compensate for that lack of organisation and commitment.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I never considered NSO to be fighting against the odds, nor did I ever say we were at a disadvantage (our history of fighting against the odds more than compensates against Legion, which they do not have as much experience at). I consider our performance to be quite fine, as is Legions. I merely tried to provide an honest portrayal of this situation, instead of the overly cut and dry simplifications of moronic pundits. But what did I expect but to be misunderstood as a plea for sympathy?

This is why I usually veer away from such discussions. Talks of statistics is beneath me. I can try to be honest in my assessments (IAA and BTA are completely useless when taking things into account). Bah.

This whole statistic nonsense, it really does make a compelling case for bringing back Shark Week.[/color]

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Tygaland' timestamp='1318636498' post='2825265']
[color=black]
You complained earlier about arguing with idiots then you post this which shows you did not read what I said. To help you out, I said the manipulated statistics were manipulated to make your situation [i]look more dire[/i], that is, make it seem that you are fighting against greater odds than you really are. I did not say your situation was dire.
[/color]
[/color]
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I never said you considered NSO's situation to be dire. I said I did not consider NSO's situation to be dire. Now if I did not consider that to be the case surely I could not have had that as a motive when I "manipulated" the statistics. But bah, this has become a semantics debate. Something which is almost as stupid as an argument over statistics.

Tyga, I do respect you quite a bit. Frankly this back and forth over nothing is beneath us both. May I propose that we both end it before we look like petty imbeciles slinging poo back and forth at each other? Since it seems to me that we're both finding statements in each other's sayings that neither of us have either said nor intended to say.[/color]

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1318636691' post='2825266']
[color="#0000FF"]I never considered NSO to be fighting against the odds, nor did I ever say we were at a disadvantage (our history of fighting against the odds more than compensates against Legion, which they do not have as much experience at). I consider our performance to be quite fine, as is Legions. I merely tried to provide an honest portrayal of this situation, instead of the overly cut and dry simplifications of moronic pundits. But what did I expect but to be misunderstood as a plea for sympathy?
[/quote]

[color="black"]
For someone who doesn't seem to think NSO is fighting against the odds you sure make a lot of noise about Legion's "top tier" and the inadequacies of those fighting with you to generate such a view.
[/color]

[quote]
This is why I usually veer away from such discussions. Talks of statistics is beneath me. I can try to be honest in my assessments (IAA and BTA are completely useless when taking things into account). Bah.

This whole statistic nonsense, it really does make a compelling case for bringing back Shark Week.[/color]
[/quote]

Yes, when statitics show you are talking nonsense it is the person posting the statistics who is at fault.

For the record, I don't place a great deal of faith in statistics but they are what they are and people trying to fiddle with them to make them seem something else is just nonsense.

Edited October 15, 2011 by Tygaland

[Ai Entity]

Cold wars...

maybe a nuke should go off accidentally.

[Tygaland]

[quote name='Ai Entity' timestamp='1318637407' post='2825273']
Cold wars...

maybe a nuke should go off accidentally.
[/quote]

You rang?