Sigrun Vapneir

From what I understand, he didnt take the screenshots, he just looked at them? Stretch?

1. Seth accepted spy info from BC, that's how he knew the NPO warchest requirements. 2. NPO accepted spy info from BC, that's how they knew Seth had seen the screenshot. The first is a horrible crime but the second is not? As a very august individual said recently, every alliance accepts info. I have to say it's amusing as heck to watch people falling all over themselves trying to defend 2 without condoning 1. And watching people who have clearly explained the difference between spying and receiving info in the past suddenly pretending they cant see any difference now is a real hoot too. Whatever. Good luck with that.

No one *wants* screenshots of their forum floating around, quit waving that red herring around it only makes your hands stink, and it doesnt fool anyone.

Paradoxia Vult!

I believe you mean the notable absence of one. If so, we are agreed.

Ahhh... what took y'all so long?

Agreed. Depends. I see no problem with war over spying. But real spying, not just 'receiving information' whether on tattler or in a query window, and the civilised thing to do of course is to attempt to negotiate a reasonable settlement and only go to war if that fails.

And the stench of hypocrisy is thick in here... Looking at a screenshot someone sends you isnt spying. It just isnt. If I either myself or through a partner *infiltrate* your alliance to get information under false pretences, that is spying. If I then go query moo and send him a link to some stuff I found doing that, I'm still spying - but Moo is not. And dont tell me he wouldnt look. If there's a chance the info could be important to his alliance (and how could he be sure there is no such chance without looking?) then he would have to look. *I* would still be the spy, not him. And if the alliance I was spying on had a PIAT or better with NPO, then Moo would need to turn me in to them - but if not he has no obligation to say anything to anyone. He would have every right to keep quiet and protect my identity simply on the gamble that, even if the screenshot today didnt turn out to be important to his alliance, the one I bring tomorrow might be. I have no doubt that's how it would all be parsed if it were Moo, not Seth, on the block here. I dont think anyone that's been around and paying attention very long here could have any doubt on that score. And a lot of people think that what's good for the goose is good for the gander, no? Now all that said, there are a lot of unknowns. Seth *acts* guilty. Maybe that's just because mhawk uses an interrogation style designed to get people to act guilty, maybe he's in something like the situation of the confused kid that the police intimidate a false confession from... or maybe his involvement here is a bit deeper than has been proven. It does sound like he was suspiciously chummy with the BC types. So even while saying clearly that 'accepting information' is nonsense as a charge, I'm not at all sure Seth is completely innocent here. All that taken into account, some sort of compromise must surely be possible?

The word you seek is precedent. Sounds like you're talking about the Great Wars. There were III of them

Mongrel is right. It's a horrible speech. And Canik you must not be as peaceful as you want to think you are. This overt bloodlust disgusts me. The Aesir do not shy away from battle when it is necessary, but to openly seek slaughter for the sake of slaughter is beyond the pale.

A clearer definition of war? It's when you push that button, you know, the one marked "Declare War".

Huh? FAN was a relatively active mass-membership alliance, and that's supposed to mean it was impossible for them to miscalculate troops buys or impossible for a handful of ghosts to join long enough for screenshots then disappear? Your argument seems a bit far-fetched.

Quit with the [OOC][/OOC] this is an OOC forum FFS. This is true. True, but *much* more complicated after the war against peace. Now this is just over the top nonsense. Some of us view the game as one of nation-building and community-building first. Frankly as a wargame it would never hold my attention this long. I have real wargames. I'm playing HoI right now in fact. It's paused in the background while I check the forums. I'm not brainwashed, or a tool, I enjoy the game just fine during peace time and frankly if you declare war on me you'll annoy me.

Any specific examples?

If you really re-roll, i.e. dont just come back "undercover" and jump into your old alliance, friends, and persona, how could they even know you were back?

IC that would be senseless, of course. Except that by the same logic all wars IRL ought to be wars of extermination, and they arent. So something doesnt really connect there, somehow. But OOC it would be my choice in your shoes. I'm sure I'd find a rematch in 6 months more fun than fighting guerilla warfare for years, no?

So what, did one of them write you nastygrams in the game or?

So nuke yourself Härmlin

Now that was a burn.

Ick those are some nasty images. Anyhow, bout freaking time, cheers!

No, as someone that's read the entire threads from whence most of the screenshots came and has current access etc. , I think both work. Vox appear to have pulled out the snippets of hers they consider or think someone (?) will consider the most offensive out of context to post. How else could that be described than as an attempt at character assassination or demonisation? Though it seems to have backfired spectacularly. At the same time it's true Cit has an incredible relationship. It's not just the governments, it's the rank and file membership activity that is key, that other blocs in my experience lack. When there are issues sometimes the base membership of the alliances have to get together and straight out the .govs. Again, in my experience at least, unprecedented. Cit

The OPs thesis is only absurd because it's garbled. Clearly what the NPO (and the rest of the planet) has failed at is providing the OP with the level of entertainment he feels entitled to. I wonder if he's feeling more entertained after having posted it?

Deosina Vult!

Nah. People do that cause they want to talk about something. It's tabloid CN. For good or ill.

Caught on to that trick months ago Also o/ OG. Finally I wasnt aware Vox Populi was actually at war with the Citadel, although I realise they are at war with OG individually. Spying is an act of war and being a stickler I hope Citadel takes this as such. vP