ChairmanHal

Can't think of a single alliance that wouldn't have a serious problem with him under the same circumstances (including Valhalla) save for the one DBDC is attacking, so your anger is more than justified. What's not (or at least or longer) justified are economic sanctions imposed on a 'rogue'. He's clearly not one now and I'd argue never was.

Fair enough, I can relate to this.

Don't forget the punchline... "...and that's about all they can/are willing to do."

It's almost like Bones is cooling on the SPATR AA for the past few weeks or so as a member when in reality he's DBDC (something about "once DBDC, always DBDC"). But I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell me why I have it wrong and all those people constantly sending Bones free tech are legitimate nations. I don't buy any story that has CT going rogue once he joined WTF the first the time and was approved "in game". DBDC calling CT a rogue is laughable--particularly after all the service he did for them on variety of AAs. He's many things, some of them bad, some of them worth pursuing ZI or ZT over perhaps, but not a rogue. When you buy CT you get a bit of a loose canon. When you are totally outgunned, a loose canon is better than no cannon, particularly a powerful one with a grudge. As I suggest to someone at NG, of course you'd take him, but from the sidelines, it's easy to be a paragon of principle. Interesting analysis though more than one of my allies does not share this point of view. 5,160,453 Attacking + 9,383,521 Defending = 14,543,974 Casualties Looks to me like you spend most of your time prancing around on top of the trench hoping to get shot. I guess that makes you a badass, some would say any idiot can get shot. Perhaps CT will give us a report on how good you actually are.

Maybe he needs modesty lessons from Stewie.

Carnivore does many things, it doesn't lie.

Incorrect. At best you can say he's a traitor, and DBDC certainly has grounds for expelling him and attacking him if the logs you cite are legit. You can even throw in there a CB against WTF for accepting him, though there's a slight problem there (see below). However, I did some checking a while back when he was sanctioned on Purple for being a nuke rogue and it turned out he left the DBDC AA and was accepted into WTF (as in more than just an applicant) at the time of his war dec on Cuba. He did briefly leave the WTF AA (but not the alliance) after that, for what could be best described as "war tactics" (AA switching being a common practice these days by certain individuals/alliances), but he's been WTF for a while now and doesn't fit the definition of a nuke rogue and never did. Don't feel bad though, a lot of people fell for the story and CT doesn't really care any more. WTF was already being attacked by DBDC, and it wasn't just one of their "friendly ass slaps" for some cheap land. You actually expected them to turn down the help Christian Trojan offered? "Oh no, it's cool, we don't want any help from a disgruntled member of the enemy camp, because we're a proper AA!" Of course you accept him, and worry about the details later. Just be clear on what you are doing. It isn't particularly noble, nor even necessary.

Cool story, bro. Check the dates/times of when Christian Trojan became a WTF member and the time of his entry into the war with his war dec on Cuba. I'm sure DBDC appreciates what amounts to a minimal offer of help though.

I'd laugh were they not almost certainly legit. To be honest there was nothing in them that I wasn't already aware of and strongly suspected. But it was nice getting the reaffirmation. FYI: Saying "it's old news" gets tried around here a lot as a defense, but nothing is ever forgotten, you know that. Pretty much sums up the OP. Note to ODN: When NPO used to do this, they came across with a more local hardass district attorney tone. Work on it. Nice job Schatt, as usual.

Nice government. Enjoy semi but not really retirement, Goldie.

It appears I touched a nerve. Good. "Midget Napoleon" indeed. :rolleyes: I was just being polite. Your alliance has a track record of allowing your friends to be butchered. Worse, of having agendas that are in no way in alignment with the goals of the coalitions of which you are a part. That's not how I work and it's not what I expect out of my allies.

That word 'racist'...you keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Pacifica was for the longest time run by overly wordy oligarch manipulators, with the veneer of being the "civilized" ones (apart from NpO). In the end, they were/are no better than IRON, ODN, Fark or a lot of other alliances I could name. If you buy off on their propaganda, lord help you, but I don't wish them any particular ill will. At some point we may even find each other useful again.

If you still have the hot tub time machine, OP, I'd like to go back to 2007 and make a few minor tweaks. <_< I find it fascinating how people still think that NPO had/has any power that we, meaning people that weren't/aren't members of NPO, didn't/don't give them. NPO without lots of willing accomplices isn't even a thing anymore.

Mostly we keep him blitzed on mead, but these days who isn't?

Nation Created: 2/13/2007 5:46:42 PM (2,922 days old) Yeah, Great Greenlight on Fark brought me here. Still can't find the damn exit. <_< Congrats on 8 years.

Let's break the OP down... 1. Bullying - pretty easy to see and confirm. If you can't see it, then I have the number of an optometrist for you. Really though we're talking about a group of bored people who decided to organize and do something about their boredom. 2. Multi Naitons Giving Out Free Tech - Possible ToS violations aside (and if the OP has evidence of it, that is something that needs to go directly to Admin, not be batted around in the Forums here or by Mods), It's painfully easy to convince your friends or family to start up a nation for the sole purpose of throwing tech at specific group of nations. This has been pointed out on multiple occasions and goes on now in alliances other than DBDC. You could argue that Planet Bob will evolve to allow some alliances to set up a tech conveyor system identical to that being run by DBDC and thus level the playing field, the problem is that DBDC is starting a 500 mile race with a 100 mile lead. Other alliances might even be able to start to close the gap, if as soon as they are perceived as a threat, their largest nations will be sent back down into the pack. OOC: It is why I've argued that perhaps it's time for the elimination of tech as something that can be sent via foreign aid (or at least the elimination of it as something that a lower tech nation can send to a higher tech nation) in association with a reset or a massive readjustment of tech levels. When I say the "game is broken" it's not just a cliche I spout because I'm one of a number of butthurt players that got "out played". 3. Cuba’s Plan - Nothing here that isn't logical and stated in various forms by a variety of people, present company included, as well as DBDC members. IRON is a logical target regardless of whether the remaining neutrals are clean up. 4. DBDC’s Current Position - Sure enough, DBDC only has so many planet buster nukes. However they also have family (essentially satellite alliances like DS) and friends, such as those in DT, that are more than willing to step forward and take on anyone attacking the core nations in DBDC. You are really are never attacking 18-22 nations, you're attacking hundreds at varying levels of NS. This has always been a problem when talk turns to eliminating DBDC and part of why even the best warrior alliances have settled for NAPs and even treatied DBDC and/or DS. Effectively, the world does the best it can to "play around" (not with) DBDC and hope that DBDC is some else's problem. Of course that is boring for everyone, DBDC in particular and we're back to coming up with a way for DBDC members to have fun again. Thus if DBDC didn't have a plan for creating new targets, they'd develop one. The problem however is this...any targets "forced" into the top 250 at this point are no challenge. Even if they resist, they can't do enough effective damage to hobble DBDC and even if they could, there is a tech/cash/soldier aid train constantly rolling up to bring them back up to their previous NS levels. Over time, the new targets that pop up will be less and less of a challenge until a critical level is reached and finally Planet Bob folds. OOC: The game is Kevin's to fix, not us. I honestly don't see a player solution to the problem at this point, nor have I seen one for a while (the CN community refused to organize for the purpose despite the best efforts of some really talented players...no I'm not talking about Tywin, his words are too much far too late and a bit annoying), though if CT had taken a half dozen or more DBDC members with him and made it into a genuine DBDC civil war that might have sufficed. As is, he will definitely cause some temporary damage on his way down/out. So there it is. I'll go back now and keep trying to make Valhalla a better alliance and avoid further DBDC talk. Lord knows fixing Valhalla is a full time job anyway. Oy vey. <_<

Since I'm not getting through to you, talk to Levi. Suffice to say you don't have all the facts. Actually, that was the plan. But we gathered enough of the old crew together and I pulled together enough new crew to make something of going concern of Valhalla again. But what you are also saying here is that NG never expected anything out of the relationship to begin with, but once we got on course and moved forward, you were disappointed that our course and NG's didn't align. See, I get that much of it, honestly. It's also been acknowledged on our part that there was a clear distance between Val and NG that had developed long before the first shots in that war were fired, and that treaty should have been canceled. Not because we weren't grateful, not because we wished you ill will, but as an acknowledgement of the obvious.

That's a very disappointing statement coming from you, for a multitude of reasons, not the least of which is that it takes bits and pieces of multiple conversations held over a period weeks with a variety of people and knits it into something that amounts to a falsehood that is nothing more than a short hit piece. I don't make the decision to go to war, that's Levi's job. I influence that decision, but that's as far as it goes. Odds very much favored us going to war at some point, and that was what I was referencing, so it was a fair assumption early on we would indeed be going to war, but...events decided otherwise. As for a war dec not helping remark, that was another conversation held much later, long after this fight was decided. At that point, any Valhalla war dec would have indeed been pretty much academic and been seen as nothing more than a token show of support that would have annoyed even more people. Also, I think perhaps it's you who could use a political refresher. Start with the text of the Valhalla - NpO treaty. On and on about the Non Grata treaty are we after what? two years nearly? Have you talked to the people who were government at NG then? You know, the ones that talked so poorly about us behind our backs then and since but failed to active the treaty? Be that as it may, I'm fairly confident that in your OWF postings I can find examples where you are applauding other alliances that have done pretty much what Valhalla has done, but since it worked to the advantage of your alliance, everything was wonderful. I'm not saying you are a hypocrite...oh wait, that is exactly what I'm saying. Now run along and bother GOONS about not honoring their treaty with Sparta or TOP.

"Putting my nation where may mouth is" could involve many things, including partnering with IRON, FTW, Umbrella, or VE in their attacks or in defense of them against people who countered them. Indeed, the treaties we have with those allies are equally valid given the circumstances that Polaris went to war. I get tired of being told by some of the "upright and righteous" people of Planet Bob that Valhalla is a bad alliance and I should feel bad. Fuck that. You aren't us, you don't know how the decisions were made that got us where we are. Hint: it had nothing to do with preserving pixels for pixels sake.

But you have a lot of experience switching sides in the middle of a global war, right? Let's not mud sling. My apologizes for responding to a Tywin post. That was an error, I'll try to be more respectful of NpO in the future and not associate the two in the same sentence. However you guys are shot to hell--that is not disrespect, that is an observation. Your competition much less so and the group of alliances you entered the war to protect has I believe already received peace. That should confirm for you who the real target was. You were warned. Nobility has a price.

That's good, because at Polaris' current rate of "progress", that's exactly what they'll have. A quick check shows you have exactly one nation left above 100k NS and only 2 left above 70k. That explanation makes a lot more sense than getting stressed out about an ancient matter that was avenged a very, very long time ago...and I ought to know, I kept careful count of the scores that needed settled. Should someone want to truly re-fight GW IV aka The Unjust War however, let me know, I think that we can roust Jason8 back to the table.

I've been reading the past few pages of this thread and for a few moments there I thought I was transported in a time machine back to 2007. Spent parts of an hour trouble shooting a problem with the \m/ forums. I blame flashbacks. What's the problem here?

Does it involve taking cheap shots at them on the OWF? All of which just makes them a bigger target. Ultimately if you are receiving tech from them, you have to decide if it is worth diverting aid to them in order to ensure you'll continue to receive your tech. Personally I'd aid them, and you appear to be doing so. Nicely done.

I think it's funny how people on both sides of this conflict are pointing fingers at each other regarding this issue, when in reality both sides have engaged in a variety of preemptive attacks, aid interdictions, and other total warfare tactics, some officially declared wars, others completely undeclared and almost missed by the OWF.

I like how you resort to elementary school insults here and change the subject without even acknowledging even once that mistakes were made in the distance past and that the new GOONS (a true reboot of the original) has learned from its past mistakes and will be a successful alliance once again. I do wish the new GOONS well and hope that is the case. As for you...*sigh* not much helping people who won't help themselves.