Lord Caspian

[quote name='Dajobo' timestamp='1303950352' post='2700716'] I agree Lord Caspian but in our case (VE/Polar) there wasn't reps involved and IMO Reps are the thing that causes the problem. Enough on that though because it belongs in some other place. Go gadget go, one day we may get that dance with GPA yet! [/quote] I probably should have said "terms" instead of "reps", you're right. But yeah, enough of this

[quote name='King Penchuk' timestamp='1303819572' post='2699732'] Soon we will pass ZombVE. [/quote] Disclaimer: I really don't mean this in a political way, so if you're going to take it that way, please don't respond in this thread. Personally (meaning, I'm not speaking for VE), I'm somewhat pleased that you guys will be able to return to pre-war levels*. You guys took your beating for what you did and bouncing back is evidence that it is still possible to have a big war in CN and dish out terms that don't make the damage a year long job to repair and kill/stagnate the game in the meantime. *I know that when I say "pre-war levels" you guys will say you're not close in absolute terms, but I think my point still stands?

Lots of membership losses for lots of alliances in those updates...

Took me a while to warm up to you guys way back when but since our alliances have gotten to know each other I've found you're cool Also it tickles me how much you wind people up

[quote]<Yawoo> We are a quiet alliance[/quote] This was amusing. The rest was pretty dull.

Logan! Take care.

Wanderlust claims another big gun...

Personally I thought this was pretty funny, and yes, I can see why NPO might be annoyed about it, but this thread just makes you (NPO) look like the ones desperately trying to win a PR battle which, if it wasn't for threads like this, you would probably stand a good chance of winning.

Big deletion for us

[quote name='TIEIXIAIS' timestamp='1300393323' post='2668077'] ODN and IRON competing at turtle speed. [/quote] If there's no hare the fable breaks down

So surely a defeated alliance, still at war, has also lost its sovereignty. They don't even have the power to exist in peace. They don't have that privilege. They require the permission of the victorious alliance. I use "permission" to mean that they are reliant on the victor deciding that they will deign to return that element of their sovereignty. Peace with a "no re-entry" clause is surely far more sovereign. But then again, it's black and white? Or are we not going to discuss the EU?

Wars don't stop in this instance. You can accept defeat and keep fighting. I'm sure FAN will tell you what that looks like. The cessation of hostilities occurs when the defeated alliance is presented with a way out. You "no longer had the ability to continue" and you were given the option to stop. You could not have brought that about yourself. You had no control over your affairs. You were "at the will of the victor". In a sense, they allowed you to have peace. You had no ability to win it for yourself. @OP You make the point about surrender being about sovereignty, yet we all know how CN works. The only time, by your definition, that an alliance has surrendered is in the cases where a Viceroy was imposed. A surrender in CN has never meant a relinquishing of sovereignty except in a very minimal number of incidents. All you have done is refuse to write "surrender" in the terms. I understand your point, but I think that you misinterpret how the word has been used in CN. Usage is the final arbiter of meaning and in CN, 'surrender' has always been used (perhaps lazily, but that makes no difference) as a synonym for an admission of defeat. All you've succeeded in doing is changing the language, not the meaning. Rok refused to surrender because, as stated in the quote above, their is no honour in surrendering. That may be so, but to make a fuss about that on Planet Bob is to undermine the end of all previous wars. I say it again: Usage is the final arbiter of meaning. Alliances have surrendered with no damage to their honour because in CN, the word 'surrender' does not mean that they are humiliatingly disallowed their own sovereignty (again, I except the few cases of Viceroys) but instead simply that they were beaten. Rok were beaten too, just like alliances before them and alliances after them. Furthermore, this is certainly not the most honourable defeat (I mean that in a literal sense- I do not intend that to be read as a snarky way of calling them dishonourable) and to single it out for special linguistic specificity seems unnecessary. FAN surrendered. Why? Because they were beaten. Was it dishonourable? Certainly not. Does the wording of their surrender thread have anything to do with that? Not at all. In fact, turning your own defeat into a PR stunt seems far more dishonourable and ignoble than simply accepting it.

Ah guys, sad to see you disband. I hope you all find your new homes to your liking.

Thanks for the update, as always, Gopher.

Congratulations on peace.

All the best, Rok.

[quote name='Great Lord Moth' timestamp='1299653228' post='2657592'] When was the last time the lowest sanctioned alliance had a score this low? @_@ [/quote] And further to that question, what is the biggest gap that has existed between the lowest sanctioned alliance and the highest?

[quote name='Fyfe XIV' timestamp='1299527888' post='2655681'] Don't worry, LR just has Invicta syndrome. [/quote] I sometimes feel like she makes Invicta look good. Haf often looks positively rational in comparison.

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1299270541' post='2652665'] Takes less time to share my opinion than it does to run an alliance, that's a given though right? [/quote] Dunno... you do share a lot

[quote name='LittleRena' timestamp='1299237059' post='2652343'] Only from alliance affairs, I still have time to stop by the OWF and give my input [/quote] You prioritize the OWF above your alliance? Yikes

You made this thread for attention. I know it

Down but not out, eh GOONS?

[quote name='LJ Scott' timestamp='1297691193' post='2632918'] Oh hello VE :3 [/quote] We're thinking it might be nice if you guys tried being on top for once

I love you guys

[quote name='UberSpion' timestamp='1297455923' post='2629567'] [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/RVT9A.jpg[/IMG] [/quote] I like it