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<Xerxer> There is no such thing as independence at a personal, or even an alliance level. Just wanted to take issue with this. There is plenty of scope for independence, but you need to be willing to sacrifice some of your security for it. I think your problem is essentially that you aren't willing to take independence (or even recognise the possibility of it existing) unless it's handed to you on a safety plate, which begs the question: do you really want it? Most rulers seem to be happy being cocooned in the safety of an alliance, without having to make the every day decisions necessary for survival and with safety in numbers, and I think that you are the same. Your barrier to independence is presumably the same as everyone else's: the fact that your nation won't grow as large as an independent one as it would do otherwise, because of the increased threat and hostility that you will face. But that isn't really a barrier at all, it's just a negative consequence - a small price to pay for independence, perhaps. Maybe you assign such importance to nation growth that this consequence makes independence not worth it in your mind, or maybe you don't even recognise independence without safety, but that's your problem. It's your lack of courage that denies you independence, not the "elite few". I reckon if more rulers took the chance and had a good shot at being truly independent, we might see more consideration given to the subject by alliance leaders in order to placate their rulers' needs to have a say in the large-scale decision making that affects their own individual nations, because it's clearly not in their interests to have their nations leaving in droves in favour of a more individually nourishing state of anarchy. The good people of the Terrorists alliance are an example of how independence can be achieved if you are willing to forego traditional nation development, and with forward planning and preparation you can even develop your nation in a way so as to ensure that you have full independence without such a dramatic loss of security (with the addition, for example, of nuclear weapons and a big pot of dongs). If tens or perhaps even hundreds of people expressed a desire for more input into the decisions that shape their nation and the world affairs that affect it (and by this I mean the big defining decisions made by the world's significant alliances, not the faux independence that you get by being a leader in a micro), and if that desire manifested itself into a state of anarchy with many people enjoying their independence to the detriment of the current establishment, we might see more consideration and thought going in to the independent desires of the individual ruler. For now though most people seem to be happy with the way things are, so there's no need for any change in the way the world works.

[quote name='CRex of Gulo Gulo' timestamp='1285904552' post='2470666'] As kind of a post script, I'm sure the moralists don't really care what I think and I can already here them mocking my callout.[/quote] I am an IC moralist and yet I found myself agreeing with a lot of what appears to be a reasonable and balanced explanation of your view, so there's no need to put yourself down like that. I'll still blame the lulz alliances for everything though, because it's hilarious to watch them baw and cry when you engage them on their behaviour. 'Waaaah waaah moralists why are you debating issues, bawwww OWF is stupid just declare war dummy baaawwww' Hahaha. You just have to love the whining and how upset they get.

Being somebody is better than being a nobody. It's not really a reflection on the specific actions of Methrage or anyone else, but more of a rebuttal to people like Creeping Death who make little to no impact on anything whatsoever and yet still, for whatever reason, feel as though they're entitled to slag off people who [i]do[/i] give us something to talk about.

[quote name='Creeping Death' timestamp='1285732314' post='2467627'] Get off your high horse and come back down to reality bro... or else I don't see you going much further in this world. [/quote] What have you done that allows you to make judgements like this in such a condescending manner? Everything else aside, I can at least recognise Methrage as having done something of note on Planet Bob.

Don't complain, ne'er-do-well members of GOONs, when the ungentlemanly conduct such as that which you are apparently only too ready to show, and even show off, comes back to haunt thee one day.

[quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1285591716' post='2465969'] (e.g. "Was the Uranium holding nation even aware they were trading with a rogue?" No, not everyone checks/is aware...) [/quote] Discussions of what is right and wrong in the cold light of day are misleading here, because what's really important in a situation like that is how opportunistic an aggressive alliance is going to be in pursuing perceived wrongs. If they are in a strong position and are happy to go to war over the issue (for example, if the trading nation is in an alliance they'd like to hit) then the position will be that it's the trading nations responsibility to check whether they're aiding a rogue or not, and that they should accept the consequences for their error. On the other hand if the alliance fighting the rogue doesn't want to make a big deal out of it (for example, if the trading nation is in an allied or strong alliance) then they may well give the benefit of the doubt and pass it off as a mistake or ignorance. Issues like these are much easier to analyse for individuals if you can get past the falsity of 'right and wrong' on Bob and instead accept the realities of opportunism and political expediency.

How brazenly provocative you are!

One post by me in one thread is more whining than the multiple and repetitive whiny diatribes of MK members in many threads? Okay.

[quote name='Owney OSullivan' timestamp='1285201544' post='2461543'] The reaction of MK members in this thread just confirms that we made the correct decision. o/ MCRABT! [/quote] You're not special, unfortunately. Whining about the affairs of other alliances is what they're known for these days (as a recent poll confirmed). 'omg you suck we're good' is the typical MK post in an announcement involving other alliances; apparently they need the bravado. I can only guess that it boosts the otherwise withering self-esteem of the persons making the comments. Oh yeah, and 'grats to the elected individuals.

Standard fare pre-roguery lulz then? Cool, good luck!

Why does it matter? Any alliance with a shred of self-respect will laugh in the face of Legion and their 'request', as magicninja expertly demonstrated in those logs, so I don't think you need to worry about it.

[quote name='Penkala' timestamp='1284561514' post='2454742'] I have my doubts this is evening happening. I wouldn't be surprised if it were you making this up to try to affect a certain alliance's PR. You're already trying to turn everything into something that makes that alliance look bad and failing miserably. Why wouldn't you take it one step further? I'm sorry but I just don't believe that alliance cares enough to do this sort of thing. I just don't. [/quote] "I'm not jumping to conclusions so fast as to say this was government sanctioned or more than one person was involved if it was GOONS. This isn't fun and I wouldn't try something like this to make GOONS look bad..." He doesn't suggest that it's an alliance sanctioned action, or that it's more than one person acting alone, and even explicitly states that he doesn't intent to harm your favourite alliance's precious PR. So now that that's cleared up, what's Methrage's motivation for making this up? Much like Impero and a few others, I think you're stuck in your IC persona and it's clouding your judgement. Maybe you should stop posting here until you are able to get past your in-game grudges.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1284560398' post='2454730'] Anyways if a mod sees this I think this thread should be locked, as nothing good will come from this thread now that I think more about it. [/quote] I'm glad you posted it, because now I can think about whether I really want to continue playing a game alongside such sad-acts. Veering towards 'no' at the moment.

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1284120791' post='2448764'] Alternatively, MK are good allies. Otherwise, [/quote] What a pathetically impotent response. Perhaps you should let someone else handle this.

[quote name='foxfire99' timestamp='1284090700' post='2448486'] Not that it isn't interesting, but Mushroom Kingdom's members are really active on the forums and they (understandably) always vote for themselves. [/quote] Understandably? Personally I find it quite difficult to understand how they can get any satisfaction whatsoever from voting for themselves én masse to skew the results of polls. If anything their actions only serve to null the results of a poll in which they might have legitimately near the top anyway. It might have been funny once, or even twice maybe, but it happens every single time and they're apparently still not bored of it. Weird.

[quote name='Poyplemonkeys' timestamp='1283527095' post='2440418'] Have you asked Airme for permission? [/quote] I was repeating AirMe's very own first line for the benefit of Alfred von Tirpitz as it answers his question. Apparently he did not read it himself, despite it being the first sentence of the OP.

[quote name='Alfred von Tirpitz' timestamp='1283516830' post='2440316'] Are the broadcasts going to be available as downloads for those that cannot tune in live? [/quote] I will be starting up the CN Talkshow in the version of a podcast

[quote name='Earogema' timestamp='1282583433' post='2427867'] But I said that and I've been a member of this reformed \m/ since it reformed. [/quote] Ah, sorry, an error on my part. Your point of view as a long-standing member is obviously perfectly valid and I apologise for my oversight.

[quote name='Swanfield' timestamp='1282549286' post='2427485'] That's because the supporters and allies of Emperor Marx are rather quick to jump to his defence, to say the least. Effective perhaps, but I'm not going to hide and not make a stand for myself. [/quote] It looks like you are finding out how quickly concerns - valid though they are - are dismissed when the individual in question is a popular guy in the wider world. It's amazing that people who have no knowledge of the current internal workings of \m/ think that responses like "Eh, Marx is a good guy. I vote for him", "Marx isn't so bad" and "I, for one, like and support Marx" are valid counters to detailed descriptions of what is actually going on from an insider such as yourself (...not to mention the fact that anyone with two braincells to rub together will have noticed the frankly terrible leadership of said alliance in recent times, so the biased views of his friends outside of the alliance are really rather irrelevant in the first place). I don't think you should turn this into a crusade though. You've said your piece in public, and it seems like you did everything you could whilst in the alliance, so now just enjoy a settled and productive existence in the STA, safe in the knowledge that you at least tried to do your best for your former alliance.

[quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282487822' post='2426607'] In the case of many of the players listed already (and whose names will continue to be mentioned) there have been incidents that showed either a dark, duplicitous or otherwise objectionable side to their personality.[/quote] Nobody's perfect. I would have thought that you of all people would understand that, what with your ridiculous and at times downright comical posting of late. Don't get me wrong - you still garner a certain amount of admiration for events long past, but I suspect that the credit earned for playing a unique role in a past war will be worn out rather quickly if you continue to play the clown all over the OWF.

[quote name='SiCkO' timestamp='1282457733' post='2426430'] The CN rumor mill seems to work well enough for me [/quote] Exactly. Spies aren't necessary because there are so many government members who can relied upon to flap their lips whenever they receive any information that isn't immediately public knowledge.

Rebel Virginia.

This is a very noble gesture, well done.

[quote name='im317' timestamp='1282336326' post='2424853'] i will narrow the protected nation moment down to a specific post. after GGA put a gag order up for anyone below regent there was 1 member who ignored it and kept posting. then someone(i forget who) pointed out(anyone have the link to this post please share) that this was the 1 GGA member who had a WRC, and joked that WRC owner was a higher ranking position in GGA then regent. [/quote] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=51613&view=findpost&p=1345894"]I love to share.[/url]

Another vote for Protected Nation here. Truly the thread that kept on giving.