jer

[quote name='lebubu' timestamp='1290732085' post='2523364'] You could say that we are... just as bad. [img]http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-frogc00l.gif[/img] [/quote] You are just as bad as the NPO! That's pretty cool. Surely a contender for the next easy-to-use MK meme?

[quote name='Detlev' timestamp='1290707719' post='2523124'] o/ Emperor Cortath o/ Pacifica [/quote] How can you mock them vocally supporting their announcement when during [url=http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94906]your[/url] last one you all did exactly the same thing? The dozen or so posts within the first two minutes of your thread represented nothing more than a hailstorm, so don't act as though you are any different.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1290643590' post='2522539'] You say you aren't interested in putting forth that effort so that makes your complaints worthless in my eyes. [/quote] I wasn't so much complaining as pointing out a few things from a different perspective to your own, and I still don't think you understand what I was trying to say, but that's okay (probably due to my own failure in not articulating my views clearly enough). I get the feeling that neither of our views are going to change any time soon and banging our heads back and forth repeatedly is just going to cause a headache, so I'll simply thank you for sharing your POV with me and be on my way.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1290636727' post='2522434'] Its there for those watching, keep at eye on warscreens or sanction lists and you can watch rogue attacks unfold, keep an eye on the wiki and you might notice un-announced treaty cancellations, be active on IRC and you can see who's talking to who, friendships grow and you notice an influx of members from one alliance in another's public IRC. Be involved in your alliance government and gain access to entire new sets of data. I'm in 22 IRC channels only 3 of which are public. You think nothing happens? You just don't see it.[/quote] You are 100% right when you say that I, as a casual nation ruler, do not monitor such exciting developments as [i]which rulers hang out in which channels[/i], because I am simply not interested in paying attention in that way. But to then use that to blame me for not knowing what's going on is unreasonable and shows that you are completely out of touch with the amount of time that most people are willing to invest in their experience here. I don't deserve to know anything because I don't follow the outcome of every rogue attack by singular nations? Good grief. Instead of it being my fault that I don't know what's going on because I don't have the time nor inclination to sit around monitoring these tiny and often insignificant developments, I think the problem I have lies more with overly secretive leaders who don't share information (either out of fear, or because they want to hold all of the decision making capacity as a means of staying in power). That is what I mean when I say be a real leader: don't just huddle around in back-channels all the time soaking up information, use your position to have a tangible impact that we can all enjoy. My point is, expecting me to pay such close and time-consuming attention just to be able to maintain any shred of interest in the political landscape is completely unrealistic, and I expect it's the same for many other casual nation rulers. Of course there is a lot of boredom around! Without constantly checking the wiki, how can we hope to find out anything! If that level of 'dedication' is what is going to be required to continue to have any interest whatsoever in the political games then I will simply give up on playing by the established rules and make my own fun (as I am so often being advised to do) before giving up altogether, as thousands of others have done before me in the last few years.

[quote name='TypoNinja' timestamp='1290598186' post='2522030'] There is still plenty that goes on behind the scenes on an almost daily basis, we just don't drop it all on the OWF like Vox did pre-Karma. Politics are far from dead, but those of you interested need to get active and get involved and be taking part, no one is going to hand feed you what you want, you must go out and seek it.[/quote] Urgh. Again we hear this lie that there is always something amazing going on behind the scenes. We all know that the vast majority of world leaders are too boring and testicularly deficient to actually attempt to plan anything, so stop with these ridiculous fabricated stories and fatuous remarks directed at the average rulers. We need to get involved more? No. [i]You[/i] need to learn how to be a real world leader, instead of just pretending to be one to anyone who asks questions of you. Honestly, if there really was 'plenty that goes on behind the scenes on an almost daily basis', wouldn't we see some fallout from it every now and then? Where is the fallout? It's not surprising that our world population is dwindling when all we get are made up stories about things going on. There is nothing happening, because our leaders are too scared to take the lead. The boredom of the masses has nothing to do with the fact that they're reluctant to be hooked up to 24/7 communications (that line has never been anything more than a red herring), there is simply nothing to be interested in. In times gone by we had plenty of intrigue, right out in the open for all to see, and the general population enjoyed it. The 30-40 thousand nation rulers of that bygone era certainly didn't need to be on IRC all day every day to know what was happening, so please stop passing the buck with the ridiculous excuse that [b]we[/b] aren't getting involved enough. To any members of VE reading this who are bored with the state of play - one of your own ministers is part of the problem. Either get rid of him, get out of there, or condemn yourselves to the era of the yawn.

[quote name='Mathias' timestamp='1290446408' post='2520359'] Aimee Mann, hands down. [/quote] Aimee Mann - NSO (14 votes [10.61%]) Apparently not

[quote name='Banksy' timestamp='1290387107' post='2519680'] It represents us perfectly. It is simplistic and to-the-point. The other one was too childish. [/quote] I think the other one represented you perfectly.

Hail storm! o/o/o/o/o/ Nice flag.

[quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1289953924' post='2515372'] Anyone else remember when NPO rolled GPA because Valid decided it would be fun to edit Dilbers posts on the GPA forum? [/quote] This has been a long time coming. Onward Pacific! All hail the Continuum! [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=14345&view=findpost&p=392275"]Do you remember?[/url]

I didn't realise that you and GOONS were so close. Anyway yeah, maybe it would be unconventional, but in-case you didn't notice, the conventions of planet bob are boring the hell out of everybody right now. I am explaining what people mean when they say DO SOMETHING.

I'm sorry, but discussing problems with alliances you don't like simply doesn't cut the mustard in terms of political goings on. If anything it's counter-productive - you've just invited a potential enemy to change their ways. Well done. So please, if you're going to deride people for not knowing what's going on politically, at least have something better to offer than that. Your information is not exciting in any way shape of form and I find it hilarious that you'd even count that as something happening. Round up your allies and launch an assault on GOONS if they're annoying you, then you can claim to be doing something worthy. Talking to them is nothing. Whoever it was that thought it'd be a good idea to discuss (on more than one occasion) your problems with the people who should be your enemies needs to resign and let someone with a backbone take over.

[quote name='Hyperion321' timestamp='1289890834' post='2514284'] People who claim that nothing is going on politically obviously don't have as much access as they think they do. When in the history of CN has [i]nothing[/i] been going on? When in the history of CN has [i]nobody[/i] had ambition. Ya'll need to learn some patience and wait for GOONS to screw up. [/quote] Is that your grand plan? Preparing yourselves for the day the GOONS makes a mistake so you know whose side to take when someone else makes a move on them (because let's face it, it won't be your alliance firing the first shots)? Wow. GOONS has screwed up multiple times over the past months, and they've always managed to rectify the situation, and there was no sign of Sparta doing anything at all. No sabre rattling, no real contact with others, nothing. What were you doing? Perhaps it's you who needs to pay more attention.

"Nukes do way too much damage right now" That is not a problem with game mechanics, but a problem with perception. Alliance leaders and members are too scared to risk losing large chunks of their precious alliances and nations. These leaders and players obviously gravitate towards one another over time, and before we know it we have massive alliances that are collectively against taking any kind of risk whatsoever. These alliances exist primarily for their own self-preservation, and they kill the game. Please, stop trying to pass the buck for the cowardice of the players (and their unhealthy obsession for building and maintaining power-bases and statistics) onto the game developer. The whole community needs to start encouraging those who take the risks that make the game fun, and to get rid of the suffocating influence of the self-preservation stat whores.

The only way they'll be banned is through use of force (ie. demands as part of a surrender), or if the game mechanics change to make the impacts of using them more devastating to the world as a whole (ie. removing the cap on Global Radiation Levels). At this moment in time too many people like blowing stuff up, and there is too little incentive for any political pressure to be applied in favour of regulating nuke use, for there to be widespread voluntary adoption of your idea I'm afraid.

What do you think of the wave of opinion that has come out over the last few days about the poor health of the game (basically: the politics are boring and people are leaving because of it)? Are these complaints politically motivated or is this issue a genuine concern for CN? What can we do about it (if anything)? If you haven't seen some of the posts, here are some links: [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94610"]What's Going on Here... (Starfox101)[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=94648"]The Real Reason Politics Are Dead (New Frontier)[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=93&showentry=2273"]Admin Can't Help You (Schattenmann)[/url] [url="http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=142&showentry=2274"]OH GOSH NO ITS TOO MUCH DRAMA FOR ME, TIME TO MAINTAIN THE STATUS QUO (mythicknight)[/url]

Doesn't this fanciful and never-ending talk of [i]look, political landscapes changing![/i] and [i]ooh, intriguing story lines are unfolding before our eyes[/i] just make you sick to the back teeth? Especially when it spews forth from the mouths of apparently experienced campaigners who should know better... In case you hadn't you noticed, every single major war for YEARS has been fought simply because a stronger power sought to take advantage of the mistake of a weaker one, regardless of whatever "interesting" political situation was prevalent at the time. There's never anything more complex to it than that. No true ambition, no real cause being pushed, just the cycle of opportunistic cowards gathered together and lying in wait for that one golden publicly deplorable error - the convenient CB. Time goes by... no big enough mistake is made... and so the threshold for the size of a slip-up and/or the weakness of an alliance making the error needed in order to rally the troops is reduced. Eventually we're all so desperate for action that a weak excuse for war is accepted with open arms, maybe even against a sizeable power if we've waited too long, and we rejoice for a few weeks before deciding that war isn't fun after all, and the cycle of blue balls begins anew. Same time next year? Eurgh. Yes, the problem is that there is nothing pro-active going on (no surprise perhaps, since pro-active actions usually lead to hostility, but you've just got to be brave). Obviously, we hear about the mythical [i]wheels in motion[/i] behind closed doors, but that doesn't count as pro-activeness because those wheels have the rather unfortunate habit of rolling and then coming to a halt in complete secrecy, with no tangible outcome, leaving the casual nation ruler (you know, the one that makes up the vast majority of the populace?) with nothing at all to interest them, and bored out of their brains. Who's to blame for the fact that there's nothing pro-active going on? Well, the vast majority of the prominent heads of alliances of our time [i]are[/i] about as dynamic, ambitious and brave as a brown paper bag, and there's as much chance of an interesting political statement emitting from one of them as there is hell freezing over. The best (worst?) example of this kind of leader can be found in every major alliance that has no discernible ideology or style that distinguishes it from the next (we all know the type; the alliances known only as 'allies of X', but never in their own right). But the leaders themselves are not wholly to blame, because they can't physically force their boring ethos on anyone. It's the nations that willingly give them power by remaining under their banner that are to blame. Guys, stop merely existing under the protection of these identikit drones (Does your leader have good organisational skills? Great! So do all the rest. Please be more discerning in your servitude) and get some principles and ideas that are more meaningful than 'I just want protection, trades and tech deals'. Get an identity, have some beliefs of your own and join an alliance that will fight for them openly, for all our sakes. Sigh. Year upon year, it's the same old garbage, and I'm amazed that we haven't all died of boredom already. 20,000 left? I'd consider that a miracle in the circumstances. What is wrong with us; why are we still here? We do we still put up with alliances that bring nothing of their own to the table? Attack them all I say. Sincere apologies for the increasingly incoherent rant, but it felt good.

MK are setting a ridiculous precedent here. What if a nation hostile to MK in the 50k NS range joins their ranks, achieves a member mask, and then goes rogue on three nations of other alliances? Are MK going to pay the millions of dongs in damages for that? Remember, it wouldn't matter whether they kick him out, he was a member at the time of going rogue.

[quote name='Erwin Schrodinger' timestamp='1289003778' post='2503302'] I can't tell if this thread honestly scares me, or sickens me. Or both. Who would not only buy a flag for, a, erm, "place", and then admit to it? [/quote] What's wrong with it? They are a group of friends with a common interest, and they like to show that common interest through the medium of flags. Just like football fans, baseball fans, etc. do with shirts. It's not harming anyone, so maybe you should drop the Mr. Cool routine (because I am pretty sure that a routine is all it is with you) and stop being so small-minded.

The reason for quitting was clearly provided: "[...] how ever something bad has happened to me in the last 24 hours". He almost spent as much time giving it as he did saying goodbye, so it's strange that you'd miss it, perhaps you were blinded by something? Anyway, I won't be entertaining this discussion (or any other) with you because you are apparently more intent on moronic one-liners about maps that hope to distract from the lack of a good argument, inane potshots about soap operas purely because I have the temerity to hold (and defend) a differing opinion to your own, and general ranting about misquotes in what appears to be points-scoring desperation (as I'd very clearly stated that the quote of you was not a direct quote: "as you'd perhaps put it"). Good day to you.

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1287114448' post='2484990'] Wait, so someone posts a goodbye along with a vague description of something personal that happened to them, and you think that opens a door for internet people to bluntly ask (publicly, mind you) what it was that happened that would cause someone to change the direction of their life? I could understand a buddy asking what occurred [b]privately[/b], but directly asking him within the thread is classless. It's like people have the inability to pick up on social cues and act accordingly. [/quote] Yes, I do think that. The idea that Timeline's social cues should be respected is a fallacy because the situation that created the need for the cue in the first place (the creation of this thread and the subsequent mention of problems) was not only self-created, but also not in any way demanded by society here. He could've not created a thread and simply told his friends in private, or he could've created the thread and just said he was bored - two other easy options to take if you want to avoid explanations whilst still telling people you're leaving. He didn't take them, so I think it's reasonable to assume that he wanted people to notice his reason, and I already put forward a couple of reasons as to why that could be. I think there's an ulterior motive (or as you'd perhaps put it "It's like people have the inability to pick up on ulterior motives and act accordingly").

[quote name='nippy' timestamp='1287049744' post='2484371'] Common sense would dictate that he didn't feel comfortable explaining it, otherwise he wouldn't have been vague about it in the OP. Have some tact, for once. [/quote] If he didn't want to have to explain anything, why did he even mention that bad things have happened to him? Why would he even make the thread? My guess is that he wants to save his nation from destruction and feels that a vague reference that causes people (specifically, his attackers) to a) feel sympathy and b) leave his nation alone might be a good way to go about it, but then again, I am rather heartless and cynical. The point is, there is no rule saying that you have to explain why you are leaving, but he chose to do so - in a vague way that invites questions - so people are entitled to ask them in my opinion.

[quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1286223181' post='2474499'] That's nice. Here is the original context of the image[/quote] The original context is irrelevant and has nothing to do with the intended meaning of your image. It's clear where people are finding humour in the image; the vehicle is called the gayroller and it's rolling over your political enemies. By implication you are calling your enemies gay, as though that's something negative. Homophobic and bigoted.

[quote name='threefingeredguy' timestamp='1286222655' post='2474480'] I guess the meaning is ambiguous out of context, but it is meant to imply that those riding the steamroller are gay, not the people it's rolling over. Is it homophobic to call yourself gay? [/quote] That's not the way it looks.

[quote name='Ardus' timestamp='1286222575' post='2474475'] The issue is that you are incapable of taking a joke and take things entirely too seriously. [/quote] You think so? Looks to me like the difference between you and me is that I can see that bigoted sentiment is still offensive even when presented in humorous form, whereas you think it's okay.

[quote name='Stumpy Jung Il' timestamp='1286201644' post='2474202'] If anyone takes this picture seriously they have serious issues. I did laugh out loud when I saw it though. [/quote] Being offended by homophobic rhetoric means that I have serious issues? What a bizarre way to see it.