Orkules

I had too much infra and tech. Something had to be done.

Agreed. But since he seems to only speak in them, I thought maybe the point would get through.

Amazing how he's able to do that with one paragraph.

No. If they break terms, we punish them with a war, teach them a lesson, and then let them go. There is absolutely no justification for what NPO has done to FAN. Well there is, but it's a very !@#$%* one. Eternal war is not our way. In fact, it's one of the big things that's led to this day. Think of it this way. We're taking away their bullets for a bit. They're free to keep the gun and even get a few more. Then we'll give them back their ammo assuming they don't try to break the terms of our agreement (aka surrender terms). We're not neutering them. We may make it so they can't just resign every treaty and have their allies rebuild them and kill us all right after we fracture.

Not the worst piece of propaganda I've ever seen but hardly the best. Too transparent in it's aims to rank up amongst the truly great propaganda.

Have you not read any of what I or most of the other Karma/allies of Karma have said? We know we're not going to stick together. Hell, in the middle of the war we've had alliances getting extremely angry at one another over the war itself. We are simply so loosely connected and so widely different that we can't maintain our current cohesion (if it can even be called that) beyond the war, hell it's barely staying together as is. The amazing thing is that NPO and co have been so terrible in their actions that people with such radically different views can agree that they need to be brought down and are willing to cooperate (kinda sorta) in order to bring that about.

They don't. They're the ones who can help you get answers about Karma, that doesn't mean they necessarily lead Karma. Once again, to say that Karma is an organization, a unit, a bloc, a faction, whatever is a fallacy. We're a collection of people, many of whom don't really like at least a few of the other alliances involved. It came together like it is now. Personally I have absolutely no loyalty to say..TOP and TSO. Or half of the other alliances involved. No offense to them, I just don't know them and I frankly don't give a damn. CnG and our direct allies whom I know, Nemesis, STA, even NSO I rather like and am happy to fight alongside. The rest of you...well I've already said my thoughts.

That is where we have to separate ourselves from them. We need to know where to draw the line. Should they punished for their past actions? Yes to some degree they should be but only enough to know that they had gone too far. But we have to know where to stop. Most of the terms are simple military terms that one should expect from any brutal and devastating war. Once again, where this is concerned we can't go too far. Reps can't be too high, no rerolls...the rest gets a bit more iffy so I don't know where to draw the line there. When the time to surrender comes I will judge for myself. If I think my leaders did live up to what I hoped, I will depart. They know this, though I seriously doubt my approval and presence will mean too terribly much in terms of their decision.

No worries, I figured that was what happened. Done it myself before.

I was not commenting in response to your posts, I hadn't read them. I commenting based on the OP.

That makes them okay? They unleashed incredibly harsh terms on everyone and their mother just for the sake of making sure they would NEVER be a threat again (which ironicly created more enemies than it removed). Our moves aren't out of fear. I don't fear NPO's return. I've faced the worse they can do and I'm still standing. They can come and try it again, they'll win or they'll lose but I'll still be here and we'll do this all over again. I do, however, want to punish them for their actions. I don't want to simply destroy them and cripple them with reps for the sake of removing an enemy, frankly I want them to come back eventually as a threat or maybe (if by some miracle they learn the lesson we're trying to teach now) an ally someday. However, that does not mean they should get white peace. I believe in white peace only to an extent. In a foe that has acted as they have and who has shown the ability to recover as rapidly and completely as they have you have to put some sort of terms on it. The difference, I hope, is that we will know where to draw the line. They never have. And I want to put them at a point where after the war the world is more or less balanced, divided, whatever. I want competition, I want fighting and chaos. I want the world to be interesting.

Our methods are different than yours. Look at the peace so far. I can almost guarantee you that Hegemony alliances would never give such easy terms to any but the smallest alliances (and given how they treated TDSM8 not even then). We will NOT force people to reroll or quit, we will not force you to disband. We may devastate your alliance. We may impose reps upon you. That is fair, that is war. We will not force you to cripple your alliance just to pay them, and we won't violate the above terms. If any alliance I am allied to tries I will be disappointed and I hope my government takes action against it. If my government or the government of any CnG alliance pushes or signs such terms I have told them explicitly that I will leave for somebody I see as more honorable or just than they.

I'm in Karma. I know many people on my side of the war aren't. There are spokesmen of Karma and a few leaderish people in Karma but they hardly control the coalition (in fact how uncontrollable and unwilling to cooperate several members of the "faction" are is causing some issues). Karma is incredibly loose, surprisingly unorganized and shortly after this war ends we'll fracture apart and a lot of us will be at each other's throats. Frankly, I can't wait.

What do you think the real purpose of TDSM8 merging into Vanguard was? Once Stumpy has turned the entire alliance into his zombie horde we'll merge into MK. Seriously. That made me laugh really hard.

It was really funny when Ducky who hasn't rebought his military since day 1 asked me to surrender. This, however, was not.

Personally I just want them to live up to the standards they've put other alliances to. If they're going to demand people not go into peace mode against them they better not go there themselves.

We're calling them on their hypocrisy. I don't think that's imitating them. They have literally forced people to leave peace mode under threat of perma-ZI but when they do it it's perfectly acceptable.

You know, there's a reason most of us don't really use peace mode banks much anymore. Not really that helpful on the actual war front. Also, given how they've treated others who used peace mode even slightly I think we're well within our rights to call them on their !@#$%^&*.

Maroon lacks Trashcat. Nuff said.

I love you. But you are no Stumpy )): Also Vilien they've tried with most of us. In my case, they've tried MANY times.

Brilliant strategy is brilliant. Also I support rapid strike to prevent Karma PoW sanction.

At least MCXA and I believe TPF admitted they tried to run and that it was a terrible, dick move that they regretted. Some of you still deny it (not to mention I do believe you entered in terms of the treaty with TPF and completely ignored NPO but whatev, however I could have just missed that DoW). Sorry, I remain skeptical as to your motives. If it was some sort of tactic, it was a terrible and idiotic one. And apparently it wasn't one you told to NPO.

Drunk posting is bad. I not even sober snd I already regret it mildly.

Eh, never gonna forget them surrenderin like 3 days into UjW. It was so hilarious it stuck in my mind and I shall never let them live it down. Silly surrender monkeys.

Wow, AiD surrendered? I am SHOCKED