Golan 1st

Congratulations to both parties and especially to our friends in IRON o/

Congratulations to both parties and especially to our friends in the International

Finally And thanks to everybody

URGH! This still leaves us with the following candidates: (26.0, 85.0) (26.0, 86.0) (26.0, 87.0) I am not sure that it's worth the effort, but by trying (26, 85), you can get the hot spot with one guess for sure, by the efficiency you get. 100% -> (26, 85) 99% -> (26, 86) 98% -> (26, 87) The same way you can do it with (26, 87) 100% -> (26, 87) 99% -> (26, 86) 98% -> (26, 85)

These are the candidates: (26.0, 85.0) (26.0, 86.0) (26.0, 87.0) (26.0, 88.0) (27.0, 86.0) If you inist on trying one of them, please do this with (27, 86) and post the result. [s]I believe that all should put you in the 99% area,[/s] All are within the 98%+ area, so they are worth a try. If you want to nail the hot spot with 1 more shot, we will need a little more distant point.

Congratulations to the ODN and its new government.

1. You can move the wonders regardless of bills payment. 2. I don't understand what you mean with the hotspot part (and why you would want to move a wonder which is already on the 100% spot), but you if a wonder is unmovable, you cannot reach those wonders beneath it and drag them (from my experience, the base is at the bottom, then comes the colony, then the mine is on top). I have never tried your idea for URL manipulation.

the hotspot is (56.0, -23.0) Thanks to jraenar. These were excellent points

[quote name='BamaBuc' timestamp='1282537681' post='2427289'] I have a weird feeling I've read this post before. I know... It was when I joined CN in the months after GW3 when the Initiative had won the game forever. No, wait, it was during the year after UJW when the Orders were inseperable and unbeatable. Or maybe it was after WoTC when the Continuum had eliminted all substantial opposition (Vox surely won't make a difference) and could never be beat. Hold up, I think it was after Karma when everybody was going to live in harmony forever. I'm not sure which... But I'm sure I've heard this before. If you're not having fun, by all means, quit. The game is meant to be fun. If you're not having fun, why waste your time? But please spare us the delusions of grandeur. CN has carried on without far more influential people, and it will carry on with or without you. If you are indeed quitting, good luck in real life. -Bama [/quote]That was my instinctive response but after reading Owned-You's last post, I think that he makes some good points. I don't think that the game is more politically stagnated than ever before, so I will not get into this part, but I think that additions and changes to game mechanics are in place. It is true that many of us have nothing interesting left to do in game except for fighting here and there. The space wonders were a very good step in the direction of keeping the excitement for older players in several ways (among which, you don't just buy them and then never have to think about it again, you actually need to choose between mars and moon, costs proportional to nation's assets etc.). Doing that with more wonders and/or improvements and requiring us to actually make choices (like between mars and moon wonders) MORE OFTEN, could add to the excitement many of us can get from this game. This is only one idea and I will not get into more as this is not the suggestions forum. The important point is that it could improve the game experience for many of us if we could not reach a point where all you have to do is things you have already done countless times.

In DAWN all councilors and the president sign all treaties, regardless of their own position. The government is collectively responsible and the signatures represent the whole alliance, not only those who voted for the treaty. I can see, however, the reason in adding only the signatures of those who voted for it. Regardless of how Ram's signature found its way to the announcement, this is an unimportant technicality. Gramlins accepted white peace. How the vote went is their own business. It is undeniably a regrettable mistake if Ram's signature was not supposed to be there. Still, him making a fuss about this is really pathetic.

The hotspot is (-63.00000002, -105.0)

[quote name='Ertyy' timestamp='1280597778' post='2396075']We would like to clarify that our reasons for continuing this war remain unchanged. We merely recognize that there are no longer any viable means to attain our goals.[/quote]Classy as always. Congratulations for getting peace, Ertyy [quote name='Ryuzaki' timestamp='1280598460' post='2396113']White peace isn't victory.[/quote]Well, white peace was our goal from the beginning. We got that. Gramlins lost two thirds of their alliance, their prestige and the respect of most members of this community and got nothing of their goals in the war. But I guess that you are reading the same books as Ram. How do you define victory?

I wish to thank those who supported us since this lunacy began. This won't be forgotten. Thank to Gramlins for a the great service they did to our humble alliance and congratulations for finally IRON o/ DAWN o/ Peace o/

[quote name='Holy Ruler' timestamp='1280517082' post='2395259']Its kinda strange, but it seems that Gramlins really think they can force IRON to accept their terms [/quote]I cannot make myself believe that this is still true. This leaves me with the question what they are trying to achieve at this point which is worth their own destruction.

[quote name='Seipher Caim' timestamp='1280439105' post='2394385'] A bit sad to see the name of Grämlins now associated with a 12 men alliance, potential target of raids and mocked by the whole Planet Bob.... by their own fault... GO IRON, finish the job and turn the page...[/quote]Indeed (I swear to God that I am not slightly ironic) The alliance that set new standards of excellence is now fading away as a sad joke, an example of lunacy.

[quote name='SynthFG' timestamp='1280300921' post='2392295']If Omas has finally given up then the end is truly nigh, you have to respect him for sticking it out for so long BD will never leave the AA, but if he were sanctioned I doubt he'd have it in him to put in the effort to build a new optimum trade ring,[/quote]The end is nigh regardless. Ramirus will be remembered as the person who destroyed Gramlins. This is some legacy... Although I have respect to the old Gramlins and what they used to represent, given what they turned themselves to, I won't be sorry when Gramlins cease to exist.

[quote name='Fernando12' timestamp='1280270409' post='2391700'] So um where is that at? Still war? IRON still offering white peace? Gramlins offering to keep dying a slow death? [/quote]Yeah, you got it right.

[quote name='Thorgrum' timestamp='1280268753' post='2391684'] Yes well since about pg 67 its been a real representation of the pillars of intellect that frequent our world (you and I included). However sir your proposition is folly, because Schattenmann never makes a hollow argument. [/quote]I actually agree with him on several issues which are not represented in this thread. But go over his posts in the last 3-4 pages and decide for yourself if any of them makes any sense.

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1280261161' post='2391534']Einstein? It doesn't take brilliance to understand (after 250+ pages) that we do not want to "force" you to do anything with a boot on your neck. This has been repeated ad nauseum: The process is nearly meaningless unless you do so without being forced and without bargaining. Reading Comprehension.[/quote]I don't expect it to go through, but I must try. It obviously requires some brilliant Gramlin to understand (at least) two things: 1. A war, by definition, is a violent mean. You don't CHOOSE to fight somebody to get him to do anything "without a boot on his neck". Instead, you end the war and try to convince him to see that you are right and accept guilt. So either you are even more brainless than I thought until now (if that's even possible) or what you say is complete nonsense. I apparently respect you more than you respect yourself and believe that the latter is the case, and that this is some incredibly strange attempt to minimize PR damage. You thought that you coerce us to submission. This is how nearly everybody sees it. This is what it was. 2. When you anger somebody by trying to humiliate them, you should expect them to resist you with more resolve. [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280261225' post='2391535']You're either cavalier and have nothing to fear, or you must continue to war Gremlins until there is no threat. You can't be both inside one hour.[/quote]I am not sure what you are trying to say. If you are suggesting that the only two possibilities are exclusively: 1. Us being terrified by Gramlins to the point where we would accept any demand they make. 2. Us being convinced in our power to defeat Gramlins Then you are an idiot. Gramlins can still cause us troubles and it would be foolish of us to let them do this. We are confident, however, in our power to defeat Gramlins and either force them to agree to peace or eliminate them (we prefer the first. It appears that Gramlins prefer the latter). [quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280261225' post='2391535']It's best for you that you withdraw from any intellectual debate with me with such a cowardly dismissal and admittance that you're not equipped.[/quote]Your hollow arguments are what makes any "intellectual debate" impossible.

[quote name='Matthew PK' timestamp='1280256825' post='2391461'] Joining the ESA? A significant point is that the ESA as written is unacceptable; that should be clear to you.[/quote]If you weren't blinded by your own arrogance, you could amend the ESA the way you want to do it now before it was signed (so it would not be as written now, Einstein), and not ask to amend it after 4 months of war that destroyed your alliance. Now, the best you can hope for is white peace or what you may call "honourable death" for rejecting it.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280253199' post='2391416']If you really have any fear--but let's fess up--then now you know the full repurcussions of declaring pre-emptive war.[/quote]Our ongoing war with Gramlins has little to do with "the full repurcussions of declaring pre-emptive war". Even if that was indeed what Gramlins were trying to achieve, which I doubt, them being defeated is apparently a very bad service to this idea. They could promote it by joining the ESA, possibly with their ideas expressed there, but they refused to accept that. After almost 4 months and their alliance being destroyed, they are finally beginning to realize that this was not such a bad idea after all and are trying to return to that moment in history. This war is about Gramlins trying to make themselves special and set a precedent which is seen as dangerous by many citizens of planet Bob. Now, although their proud does not allowed them to admit it, they are taught humility and the full repurcussions of trying to use an imaginary advantage to humiliate other alliances.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1280251612' post='2391370']A "rogue alliance?" Hahahaha! Let's sanction all of them.[/quote]This sounds like a good idea, much better than ignoring a bunch of lunatics who are committed to harm us.

[quote name='Crymson' timestamp='1280029999' post='2387990']Are you referring to Ertyy? He has, for a long time, been Ram's #1 crony.[/quote]Everybody would follow a great leader such as Ramirus.

Congratulations and good luck to Valhalla and Repepe

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='22 July 2010 - 08:03 AM' timestamp='1279774996' post='2384072'] Your posts come from no where and have no direction. Wannabe power? That doesn't even make any sense.[/quote]It actually does make sense and I find it hard to believe that you still cannot see it by yourself. You are a micro alliance trying to play the game as if you are a major power. [quote]We wanted to achieve some very significant things. You talk about white peace as if it's some magnanimous thing for IRON to offer.[/quote]You achieved and will achieve nothing and are losing everything. Our offer is "magnanimous", because you are the side which can benefit from it, not us. As it stands, you are not even threatening enough to significantly slow our growth. [quote]Would you have accepted white peace from NPO immediately after they attacked OV? Of course not.[/quote]LOL The only similarity between the situations is YOUR moral judgment of your enemy. Unless you are committing collective suicide, white peace is the best result you can still get from this war. [quote]The Gremlins have never been about harsh terms, and still we're not. The old values DO apply. That is precisely the point. We just actually standing for them rather than just claiming to.[/quote]What you stand for is completely irrelevant at this point. First, you lost the war. Second, we don't believe a word you say. [quote]Considering we told them they should do precisely that, yes. (Also, ignoring the repeated fact that your surrender IS NOT an agreement to unknown terms)[/quote]Not that this is going to be tested, so neither of us will get the opportunity to prove right or wrong, but I think that if we surrendered and then renewed hostilities after seeing your terms, your friends would intervene for you, claiming that since we surrendered, this is a new conflict. Our friends are still recovering from the last conflict. [quote]Except that we made it painfully clear from the start that we do not believe in such harsh surrender terms. I don't believe for a second that IRON was actually afraid that we'd have some harsh terms. If *you* did, that's pretty pathetic as well. Secondly, did I miss somewhere where we officially disclosed what the terms were? Here I was thinking that the speculation was all about how terrible it was not to know![/quote]You demanded that we surrender, then disarm, then talk about peace terms from our weakened position. Regardless of the terms, that process was unacceptable. Now, any surrender of our side can only be an option in your twisted mind.