Golan 1st

[quote name='Haflinger' date='15 May 2010 - 03:44 PM' timestamp='1273927449' post='2298651'] Matthew, get a sense of humour. Pleeease.[/quote]Are you implying that he has been serious until now?

I cannot say I am happy, but I cannot judge IRON for accepting the unacceptable to stop this atrocity. Naturally, DAWN is offering its friends in IRON all the help necessary to recover from this struggle. o/ IRON RIA

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='14 May 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1273864178' post='2297915']...he was here for the friends, the community and the joy of the process[/quote]This explains why he allowed his nation to delete [OOC]I too hope he is OK[/OOC]

[quote name='Merrie Melodies' date='13 May 2010 - 04:18 AM' timestamp='1273713485' post='2296440'] Sir, I must honestly state, we have not even begun to disgust you. You just wait, we shall perpetrate acts so heinous that you will vomit through your nose![/quote]Oh, this is exactly what I expect of you. I know you won't let me down.

[quote name='Chief Savage Man' date='12 May 2010 - 10:09 PM' timestamp='1273691337' post='2296150'] You mean like TBB?[/quote]Not really. The Gramlins nations attacked by TBB can get all the aid they need from their powerful alliance and are led by an inspiring great leader. They choose not to fight, well, maybe because they have nothing to fight for. TBB is attacked by a bully alliance for daring to voice his opinion, with fresh nations, outnumbered and without a chance to get support of any kind.

Actually, PC are correct. They don't even have to pretend that they are not criminals anymore. There is no point in legalistic acrobatic to get away with everything noways. You just need to have the right allies who talk high about how terrible the old hegemony was and support the scum of planet Bob and every asshatry. Members of MK, the alliance which led Karma, are cheering for /m\'s announcement of the renewal of tech raids. Athens is a member of CnG, todays dominant bloc and the other members are not bothered to be embarrassed by that. This is what the world dominated by the not-a-new-hegemony looks like.

Based on our recent experience with Gramlins' military genius, it is most likely that his opponents were lying on their backs hoping death would come soon to save them all this trouble.

[quote name='QuotingTheCrow' date='12 May 2010 - 01:21 PM' timestamp='1273659677' post='2295923'] We're not. Quit listening to vapid blabber mouths like TBB.[/quote]So attacking a nation they are at war with is not helping them? My disgust is above all for your tech raiding.

It's just natural that /m\ will help their kind in Gramlins. I am not surprised, just disgusted.

Congratulations to both alliances To GLoF, you know I am in love with you To UCN, you are renewing a treaty with an awesome alliance o/ GLoF o/ UCN

[quote name='Lord Gobb' date='12 May 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1273651529' post='2295878'] You need a name change tbqh Congrats nevertheless. [/quote]That's funny coming from a person with a double b in his name Oh, and thanks

[quote name='supercoolyellow' date='12 May 2010 - 07:00 AM' timestamp='1273636798' post='2295689'] o/ DAWN, you have certainly had an impact on CN.[/quote]I will take it as a compliment, so thanks However, we are not megalomaniac enough to believe that a 14 members alliance (at our peak) can have any serious impact on this world

[quote name='Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz' date='12 May 2010 - 10:05 AM' timestamp='1273647936' post='2295853'] I don't see how IRON can even touch some of the big nations in Gre, let alone bring them down to where they can start pounding them in the mid to lower tiers. That's their chief tactical problem here. [/quote]It's a matter of time and we are not in a hurry

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='11 May 2010 - 11:13 PM' timestamp='1273608794' post='2295053'] My existence as a formidable nation obstructing IRON [b]is[/b] doing something.[/quote]Just in case you are not kidding, you really overestimate yourself Matthew, I actually agree, in principle, with some of your points and disagree with some of those who support our cause (though some of the things you say are complete nonsense). The main problem in your position is proportionality. We feel that your demand is unacceptably harsh. I, as the head of DAWN's government, have already voluntarily admitted guilt on several occasions. You cannot change my opinion that we aimed for a just cause, but it ended differently and we are fully responsible for that. If this is what you really wanted, you have it from DAWN. I don't think that IRON's position is very different, but you will probably want to hear that from them, which is understandable. What's unacceptable is putting ourselves at your mercy. At this point, the level of distrust between us is so high that we have no reason to expect you to be reasonable in your demands for "restitution". Your insistence on keeping us in the war on these grounds, after we accepted what we consider harsh punishment, in the form of very high reps to CnG and co., makes YOU the criminals at this point. Therefore, we will not surrender to you, we will not give you anything and we will keep punching you until you finally realize what position you placed yourself in and come to us to negotiate your surrender terms. I have no illusions. You convinced yourself (only) with your hollow propaganda and you won't surrender soon. We are patient. At some point reality will sink into what is left of your collective brain. You know where to find us.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='11 May 2010 - 09:47 PM' timestamp='1273603645' post='2294907'] So your claim is that we're wrong because we didn't accept their peace agreement as out own?[/quote]You got it right. Your insistence to unnecessarily keep us in a state of war is wrong. [quote]I have no idea nor so I care what you proposed to the other alliances on "my side." Your making an admission to them "with a gun to your head" is far less valid than it is following your token release by them.[/quote]And you are not pointing a gun (if jammed) to our head? [quote]I am not setting the moral standard. The moral standard is [b]absolute[/b] and will apply whether I am here or not. The Gremlins standing in opposition to what IRON did is not what makes their actions wrong.[/quote]Again, you are in no position to say what the moral standard is. [quote]Not true. Most people have objected to some notion of unconditional surrender which necessitates your agreeing to comply with subsequent terms without seeing them. Since that is not the reality of what is being demanded my contention that they do not inherently oppose The Gremlins' actions is validated. [/quote]Let's see if I get it right. Since they use the commonly accepted definition of "unconditional surrender" they agree with you? This is really irrelvant anymore. We are not going to surrender to you, with or without conditions.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='11 May 2010 - 09:27 PM' timestamp='1273602451' post='2294882'] No, I'm saying that to predicate you unwillingness to surrender on the notion that your opponent cannot force you is "might makes right" Now, if they predicated on the notion that their moral position is superior (as a few actually have) then this would not apply.[/quote]I can tell you, as the head of DAWN's government, that our moral position is superior from the moment you refused to accept the peace agreed upon by the rest of the alliances on your side and insisted on keeping us in a state of war. Oh, and you can say that we will have to agree to disagree all you want. The support we get in this thread and other similar threads from alliances which are naturally closer to you than to us shows how morally distorted your position is. [quote]I did not say Gremlins was [b]the[/b] victim; I said we are all victims if IRON is allowed to be relased without allocution.[/quote][b]We[/b] proposed that in the negotiations for the peace terms. It was rejected by your side. Also, you are the last who can set the moral standard for the CN community. [quote]Not true. Very few people are opposing the process Gremlins has stated will occur pursuant to IRON's unconditional surrender.[/quote]Clearly most people who bothered themselves to reply to this thread disagree with the first stage of the process.

[quote name='jimbacher' date='11 May 2010 - 09:15 PM' timestamp='1273601704' post='2294866'] Matthew I hope you guys are willing to unconditionally surrender to IRON/DAWN, because that would be the only appropriate punishment for you guys at this point.[/quote]I don't know if you are serious. Just to make sure, we will not demand anything of this kind from Gramlins. It will be childish and vindictive for the same reasons it is when Gramlins demand it.

What you fail to understand, Matthew, is that the losing side is the one who surrenders and right now it's not us.

[quote name='TBRaiders' date='11 May 2010 - 08:47 PM' timestamp='1273600047' post='2294836'] Congrats on your one year anniversary. From the OP, I find it quite remarkable that there wasn't an alliance available that was founded on the principles of freedom, democracy, sovereignty, openness and camaraderie where every member is highly valued and whose autonomy and independence are always respected. I'd have thought more people were into that kind of stuff. [/quote]Of course, there are alliances who share these values with us, but I think it's safe to say that none is as democratic, open and respects the independence of its members as DAWN. [quote name='Lennox' date='11 May 2010 - 09:01 PM' timestamp='1273600858' post='2294846'] Congrats on your 1 year DAWN! Also hi Golan [/quote]Thanks and hi

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='11 May 2010 - 06:40 PM' timestamp='1273592413' post='2294757']There has always been a plan for peace. That you don't "get it" doesn't mean it doesn't exist.[/quote]It does not exist. It was given to be rejected, when you thought you could benefit from a long attrition war. Unfortunately for you, it did not go well and a long war is not unlikely to end with Gramlins nonexistent. You still talking about our surrender is not even that funny anymore. At this point, it's just boring and show how far you went from the simple reality of this war. You know where to find us when you want to negotiate the terms for your surrender.

[quote name='Cataduanes' date='11 May 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1273564823' post='2294578']Congratz DAWN on your first anniversary, i know we have had our differences but i do not regret my role of sorts in your foundation [/quote]What shilo said. Your contribution is (almost ) not forgotten and you are a friend of DAWN and myself. Some things just live through political differences.

The president of the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations was unable to be here at this time. I am making this announcement in his name. [quote][center][img]http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt32/junkahoolik/flaganimation-1.gif[/img] [color=orange][b][u][size="7"]A Year of Splendor[/size][/u] [size="5"]The First Anniversary of the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations[/size][/b][/color][/center] Fellow citizens of Planet Bob, Twelve months ago, a small group of rulers, who were unsatisfied with what the existing alliances had to offer, established a new alliance founded of the principles of freedom, democracy, sovereignty, openness and camaraderie, the Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations. We were later joined by more members who share our values and together we succeeded in creating a community which fulfills these ideals. Most of our members held senior government positions in other alliances, we have already proven to ourselves and to everybody who cared our skill in developing our nations. That was not what we were looking for in DAWN. We were trying to make something different: a team where every member is highly valued and whose autonomy and independence are always respected. I am proud to say that DAWN gives that to its members. We have never had any aspirations to become a key player on the inter-alliance stage and, as a policy, we don't recruit. From the very first days of our existence, we had to deal with severe hostility from certain elements of the cyberverse. We also found other elements who were friendly, sometimes very friendly. First, the International made our first steps possible by protecting us. Regardless of political disputes we may have with them, we will always be grateful for the confidence they had in us and their support. IRON has also showed confidence and cooperated with us from very early in DAWN's life. They have come to be our close friend and ally. We can sometimes disagree. We have very different ways to run our alliances, but we found in IRON great men who are ready to go out of their way for friends, in peace and war alike. We made friends with surprisingly many other alliances. TORN were one of those who distinguished themselves in their relations with us. We were looking to get closer before the last conflict and their conduct, independently and cooperating with us and other alliances from side, made them a natural choice from a treaty partner. We are very proud to call them our allies. We were recently involved in a devastating conflict. Like any other, we are not perfect, and not free of mistakes and misjudgment. While we are confident that we were aiming to fight for a just cause, we ended fighting a completely different war. Since we chose when and how to enter the war, we can and do blame only ourselves for that and for the consequences. As a remainder from that war, we are now in the early stages of a conflict with an alliance which lost its brakes, a sad shadow of a once respectable alliance, which forced on us a continuation of the war by unacceptable demands. We are not happy to stay in a war. DAWN is not a warlike alliance. But we are ready to go all the way to defend ourselves, our values and our allies. We will defeat the enemy and achieve a just conclusion of this conflict. You are all invited to celebrate our first anniversary with us on [url=http://irc://coldfront:6667/DAWN]our IRC channel (#DAWN@coldfront)[/url] and [url=http://dawn.golan-shahar.com]our forums[/url]. On behalf of the entire DAWN membership, Poach of Poachland President The Democratic Alliance of Wise Nations [/quote]

Oh, there is another thing, MPK You use the phrase "reading comprehension" a lot. Have you ever considered the possibility that what you say and/or the way you say it makes you uncomprehended??

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='06 May 2010 - 06:20 AM' timestamp='1273116015' post='2288608'] No, I mean the facts. [/quote]You are either lied to or lie to the readers of this thread. You could expect that things said by a representative of an alliance on the negotiations table will actually represent that alliance's position. I would understand it if after reaching an agreement, that would require the approval of other bodies of Gramlins (the conclave, Ram, whatever). But to say that what is said by the guy representing you in the talks is meaningless is either wrong or means that there is no way to make any meaningful dealing with you. But I guess that since it's Gramlins, normal reasoning does not apply here. [quote name='Matthew PK' date='06 May 2010 - 06:29 AM' timestamp='1273116550' post='2288623']Absolutely. And, as I said to some friends earlier today, sometimes a friend's duty is to let their friend take a little punishment to see the error of their ways.[/quote]This is exactly what I would expect MK to do.

MPK, you really overestimate yourself. Fear is not what people think of in relation to your gang. It's more laughter, disgust and pity.