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A Response Interview with Sardonic


hawk11

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I said in my last post that I enjoyed giving people the soap box when the opportunity presents itself. The interview with Xiphosis was posted only two days ago and it's one of the more popular posts in the blog; more importantly, it attracted the attention of someone on the other side of an event Xiphosis participated in. Sardonic requested to be interviewed, and in the interest of voicing more opinions and my own interest in the situation, I obliged. Here it is, unabridged.

Session Start: Wed Jan 12 19:19:33 2011

Session Ident: sardonic[goons]

[19:19] <hawk_11> hello

[19:19] <Sardonic[GOONS]> howdy

[19:19] <hawk_11> so you wanted to do an interview right?

[19:20] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Well sure, as long as you've got questions and all

[19:20] <Sardonic[GOONS]> don't want to just be ranting randomly

[19:20] <hawk_11> I see

[19:20] <hawk_11> well I've got questions of course

[19:20] <Sardonic[GOONS]> good deal

[19:21] <hawk_11> alright, well for the purposes of this you're good with me publishing it right?

[19:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> absolutely

[19:22] <hawk_11> I recommend keeping a copy for your reference in case you feel I've misrepresented you or something

[19:22] <hawk_11> blah blah disclaimer etc

[19:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> No worries, I autolog everything

[19:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> literally everything

[19:22] <hawk_11> alright then

[19:22] <hawk_11> anyway, so you refounded the most hated alliance in cybernations eh?

[19:23] <Sardonic[GOONS]> In a sense. I should probably clarify that I do, as I have always said, consiter us a distinct GOONS seperate from the old one. So I guess to say I "refounded" it is a bit of a stretch under that definition.

[19:24] <hawk_11> Well yeah, also GOONS clearly wasn't the most hated alliance in CN either

[19:25] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I find that hard to believe, given the reception we got upon founding

[19:25] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I can't think of anyone really.

[19:25] <Sardonic[GOONS]> NoR appeared to nominate themselves in that thread, by way of ashoka, but I don't really see hate for NoR anymore

[19:25] <hawk_11> well usually when someone else founds an alliance, the community at large expects it to have a unique name

[19:26] <hawk_11> but the thing is you guys technically do

[19:26] <hawk_11> the old GOONS was the Goon Order of Neutral Shoving. This one is the Goon Order Of Oppression Negligence And Sadism right?

[19:26] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yes

[19:26] <hawk_11> sounds different to me

[19:27] <hawk_11> I think what most people get hung up on is the recruiting base

[19:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the name, in many regards is the last reminder of our time in the moon

[19:27] <hawk_11> Oh boy the moon. I was in ZERG then

[19:27] <hawk_11> that's beside the point though

[19:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yeah the moon was quite something, I was in the goons government there for a long time, with that traitor salithus

[19:28] <hawk_11> yeah

[19:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't see how our recruiting base is any more objectionable than RIA's or FARK's

[19:28] <hawk_11> well in my opinion it isn't

[19:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> fair enough

[19:29] <hawk_11> but they view everyone who comes from your base as affiliated with the old GOONS since the old GOONS recruited there first

[19:29] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Ah yes, there's the rub.

[19:29] <hawk_11> Yep.

[19:29] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the thing to remember though is that SA is a big place, and a large portion of the old CNgoons government didn't even have SA accounts

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 404 for example only got one midway through his term

[19:30] <hawk_11> Personally I don't think people in CN grasp just how big SA is

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and I've never seen him post anywhere, by contrast, dilber is a bigger goon than he is, I see him online all the time.

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yeah, it's huge

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> according to the current statistics

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 3,004,249 total threads.

[19:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 112,650,670 total posts.

[19:31] <hawk_11> yeah.

[19:31] <hawk_11> How many accounts does SA have?

[19:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 7,177 registered users logged in.

[19:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> 148,704 users total.

[19:31] <hawk_11> ha

[19:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Not quite the userbase of fark, 4chan, or even gamefaqs, but it's still enough to underscore my point about how large and varied the group is.

[19:32] <hawk_11> I think what's more important is that there are 20,027 current active nations.

[19:32] <hawk_11> SA is more than five times the size of CN

[19:32] <Sardonic[GOONS]> fair enough, shame there arn't more

[19:32] <Sardonic[GOONS]> aye

[19:33] <hawk_11> so basically people who can't differentiate between this GOONS and the last one because they come from the same recruiting base are idiopts

[19:33] <hawk_11> *idiots

[19:33] <hawk_11> as I typo on idiots.

[19:33] <hawk_11> nice timing

[19:33] <Sardonic[GOONS]> well, I wouldn't go so far as to call them idiots, but they are misguided

[19:33] <hawk_11> someone should write a blog post on it

[19:33] * hawk_11 dramatic foreshadowing

[19:33] <Sardonic[GOONS]> there are plenty of people who I'm sure would listen if we put in the FA work to talk to them about it

[19:33] <Sardonic[GOONS]> ha

[19:34] <hawk_11> alright, so getting back to the interview, you actually came out and contacted me about getting this after reading the Xiphosis interview

[19:35] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Yes, I was wondering if you were interested in hearing about the incident from my perspective

[19:35] <hawk_11> Definitely.

[19:35] <hawk_11> I mean Xiphosis spent a lot of time talking about his view on his actions and the direction he wanted to take with his alliance

[19:36] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Right, and while I recognize where he's coming from, I find GOD's actions utterly irrational.

[19:36] <hawk_11> I see. How come?

[19:36] <Sardonic[GOONS]> oh god where to begin

[19:37] <Sardonic[GOONS]> let's see

[19:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I suppose the lion's share of it is that at the end of the day they are no further from TOP than they were before the treaty.

[19:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> But that's somewhat besides the point, the main purpose of the cancellation was to make a statement

[19:39] <Sardonic[GOONS]> A statement which I felt did not need to be made

[19:39] <Sardonic[GOONS]> (ironically that's what penkala called the thread I made about the subject)

[19:39] <hawk_11> ha

[19:39] <hawk_11> so what was the statement in your opinion?

[19:41] <Sardonic[GOONS]> The statement wasn't so much of a "screw you" as it was just a plea for sanity, and to maybe get xiph, and GOD apparently realizing just what this meant to us.

[19:41] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I didn't actually belive xiph when he said that GOD supported the move until I saw them post themselves, it was quite surprising.

[19:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I guess it falls under "a strongly worded letter".

[19:42] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Still, I'd definitely do it again, I didn't want to just say nothing and let the treaty slip away.

[19:42] <hawk_11> I see

[19:42] <hawk_11> actually I should've been more clear. I wanted to know what you thought GOD's statement was?

[19:43] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Oh, my aplogies, I thought you meant mine

[19:43] <hawk_11> not going to lie, yours was pretty self-explanatory from the thread

[19:43] <hawk_11> penkala be damned

[19:43] * hawk_11 name-drops for readership

[19:44] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Well the statement was, in no uncertain terms, "We do not recognize the ability of alliances outside our favor to redeem themselves". And that's what most of this boils down to really.

[19:45] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I'm not a TOP lover mind you, I don't really know them, I do know the horror stories from days gone by though.

[19:45] <Sardonic[GOONS]> It is one of my core beliefs as the leader of an alliance who was given a second chance that everybody _everybody_ deserves a second chance if they are willing to work for it.

[19:46] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and in my opinion, TOP has demonstrated that they are. I see no reason to deny them the opportunity to prove themselves.

[19:46] <Sardonic[GOONS]> But GOD disagreed, and wanted to distance themselves from doomhouse because of it.

[19:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Now the thing that I think a lot of people see in this situation, imagined or not, is a parallel with them and NpO.

[19:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> GOD and NpO I mean.

[19:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Now I'll tell you up front, I don't hate NpO. I don't consiter them my enemy and neither does PB.

[19:47] <Sardonic[GOONS]> But they have done some crazy stuff

[19:48] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and they are tied to a lot of people who have caused us a lot of problems

[19:48] <Sardonic[GOONS]> UPN, TKTB, and so on.

[19:49] <Sardonic[GOONS]> They are, to their credit, tied to some very respectable alliances like FARK and RoK, but I think it's wishful thinking to the extreme to boldly claim as xiphosis does that they are "on his side".

[19:49] <Sardonic[GOONS]> What Random told me was that he doesn't believe in sides, and merely wants to be left alone. I believe him. I don't think that's the kind of attitude though that is conducive to rallying them to a cause.

[19:50] <hawk_11> That's interesting

[19:51] <hawk_11> One of the opinions I've gotten out of these interviews is that more recently Xiphosis's "side" is trying really hard to court the Polar Order

[19:51] <hawk_11> However, back to the Xiphosis issue

[19:52] <Sardonic[GOONS]> sure

[19:52] <hawk_11> Xiphosis went into detail about what exactly constituted his "side" in cybernations. Long story short, the interviewer got the opinion that he considers everyone who isn't aligned with the New Pacific Order as on his side

[19:53] <hawk_11> what's your take on Xiphosis's side explanation?

[19:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> well, the hole in that statement is TOP-shaped, but in general, I'd say so.

[19:53] <hawk_11> So, as the world keeps turning, everyone seems to still be looking for the boogeyman to pop back up?

[19:53] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't believe it's that simple really

[19:54] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Pretty much. Many people want it to be GOONS.

[19:54] <Sardonic[GOONS]> But I don't really see that as our role to play.

[19:55] <hawk_11> What do you view GOONS's role as?

[19:55] <Sardonic[GOONS]> That's difficult to pin down exactly. We're a force for change. We were voted most contravercial alliance.

[19:56] <Sardonic[GOONS]> We play the game using some different parameters than other people, but still within the ruleset, of course.

[19:57] <Sardonic[GOONS]> For example, we have a habit of attracting wars.

[19:57] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the FnKA/Ninjas episode was quite an interesting time for us

[19:58] <Sardonic[GOONS]> If nothing else, we inspire emotion in people, be it love, hate, anger, jealousy

[19:59] <hawk_11> I can get behind that

[19:59] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Aye, we also have to walk a line I feel few other alliances have to.

[20:00] <hawk_11> is it that your alliance is constantly under a microscope?

[20:00] <Sardonic[GOONS]> We have to deliver a quality experiance for our membership, without pushing the wrong buttons, diplomatically or otherwise.

[20:01] <Sardonic[GOONS]> in a sense, even without a microscope, people are quick to prejudge us just based on the name and heritage.

[20:01] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and it's a full time job overcoming that in diplomacy

[20:02] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I feel our greatest diplomatic triumph so far was overcoming the walls the seperated us from VE.

[20:02] <Sardonic[GOONS]> people who the old GOONS quite literally helped kill

[20:02] <Sardonic[GOONS]> It was a vindication to me anyway that anything, *anything* is possible diplomatically, with patience.

[20:03] <Sardonic[GOONS]> no grudge too great to overcome

[20:05] <hawk_11> yeah, the VE connection is interesting

[20:05] <Sardonic[GOONS]> At our cores, I feel GOONS and VE have a lot in common, things that arn't immediatley obvious.

[20:05] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it just requires looking past the pretenses.

[20:08] <hawk_11> yes

[20:09] <hawk_11> so getting back to your statement about other people wanting GOONS to be the next big antagonizer on the world stage

[20:09] <Sardonic[GOONS]> yeah

[20:10] <Sardonic[GOONS]> People see it as something "in our blood"

[20:11] <Sardonic[GOONS]> In reality however we behave no differently than most other alliances with regards to war. We pursue CB where we find it, but we're not asking our allies to support random crusades alliances capriciously

[20:12] <Sardonic[GOONS]> We are more than willing to be reasonable and find an agreeable compromise if the party who wronged us is willing to make ammends.

[20:13] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I don't see this changing a whole lot, even when and if we get sanctioned this year.

[20:15] <hawk_11> probably won't

[20:16] <Sardonic[GOONS]> who knows :P? Maybe we'll get somebody to merge with us and get us that much closer.

[20:16] <hawk_11> Clearly you don't want GOONS to move in the direction of being the next big antagonizer, and usually I don't ask speculative questions, but who do you see as the next big threat out there?

[20:16] <hawk_11> I mean if not you then who

[20:17] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Nobody really, and that's part of the problem with modern CN

[20:17] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I mean you have a bunch of little idiotic alliances starting problems, but they never go anyway.

[20:17] <Sardonic[GOONS]> anywhere*

[20:17] <Sardonic[GOONS]> There's no force to rally against

[20:18] <Sardonic[GOONS]> all CN has become is a bunch of poltical horse-trading.

[20:18] <hawk_11> I agree.

[20:18] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Still, I might be being overly negaitive, war might be all around the corner for all I know

[20:21] <hawk_11> maybe

[20:22] <hawk_11> The current political situation is kind of one to be grim about. The unwillingness for someone to be the big bad seems to be what is causing it. Do you agree?

[20:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> that's part of it

[20:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> but not all of it

[20:22] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the other part is the game is old now and all the major players are too damn good at it

[20:22] <hawk_11> oh?

[20:22] <hawk_11> oh

[20:23] <hawk_11> well definitely

[20:23] <hawk_11> personally I used to advocate a reset of CN until I realized I probably wouldn't come back to it

[20:23] <Sardonic[GOONS]> and also, I'd echo what xiph said about there being too many people on the ruling council for situations like the wars of the past to arise

[20:23] <Sardonic[GOONS]> naw, a reset wouldn't solve anything, though it would give us a lot more power

[20:24] <Sardonic[GOONS]> the groups would be the same

[20:24] <hawk_11> of course

[20:24] <hawk_11> but a reset would get something done; it'd force something

[20:24] <Sardonic[GOONS]> because everyone is so damn good at this game, there are precious few idiots able to start wars.

[20:24] <Sardonic[GOONS]> maybe

[20:24] <hawk_11> right now no one's really doing that

[20:25] <Sardonic[GOONS]> perhaps

[20:25] <Sardonic[GOONS]> you see that's the main thing

[20:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> for example, UPN, was from what I'm told, real close to war with us. some time ago They legitimatley thought they could beat us. It's that kind of stupidity that causes wars.

[20:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> both sides have to believe they can win

[20:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> to some extent

[20:27] <Sardonic[GOONS]> else one just crumbles, or the allies to the targeted alliance force them to back down.

[20:28] <Sardonic[GOONS]> of*

[20:29] <Sardonic[GOONS]> it takes a perfect storm really

[20:30] <Sardonic[GOONS]> given all the forces at work against war

[20:30] <hawk_11> that's what it seems like these days

[20:30] <hawk_11> you think this perfect storm could come any time soon?

[20:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I wish really

[20:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> like I said there are significant diplomatic forces out there able to prevent any war unfavorable to them

[20:31] <Sardonic[GOONS]> on all sides

[20:33] <Sardonic[GOONS]> we do it too, of course.

[20:33] <Sardonic[GOONS]> any diplomatic alliance worth their salt knows how to prevent wars unfavorable to them.

[20:34] <hawk_11> true

[20:37] <hawk_11> I think I've basically hit all my questions

[20:37] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Alright, good deal

[20:37] <hawk_11> Anything else you'd like to close off on?

[20:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> Can't think of anything in particular, I think we're good

[20:38] <hawk_11> alright then

[20:38] <hawk_11> thanks for your time

[20:38] <Sardonic[GOONS]> no problem

15 Comments


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[19:41] <Sardonic[GOONS]> The statement wasn't so much of a "screw you" as it was just a plea for sanity, and to maybe get xiph, and GOD apparently realizing just what this meant to us.

[19:41] <Sardonic[GOONS]> I didn't actually belive xiph when he said that GOD supported the move until I saw them post themselves, it was quite surprising.

We support his actions, regardless of right or wrong as the rest of the world see it, that's why he is where he is. Sure, privately some of us asked what the hell, and many of us weren't overly happy about the dropping. Until we saw that thread. You may not of meant it to, but it did come off to all of us very clearly as a screw you, and your buddies from MK and TOP rushed right in there to spit on us, and throw gas on the burning bridge, so most goodwill you had from us vanished with that thread.

We all figured we'd remain friends and patch things up shortly down the road, like brothers do when they fight. I understand why you got upset Sardonic, but the way you handled it was a bit stupid, and yes, it was as pointless as making a statement that really didn't change anything was, but Xiph felt it had to be made. But you could of understood as a friend, got upset about it, and let it be. You think if you guys had gotten hit we wouldn't of been there to help, paper be damned? Instead the thread just piled on a ton of hateful comments from those in your alliances and your friends, and make it look like you weren't friends to us to start with. That's when you saw GOD go in there and say, well sucks, but I guess we made the right call after all. We didn't go in there saying we were happy about it, none of us were happy to have to do it.

As for us courting Polar, that's laughable. We just don't hate them anymore, and don't want to see them get rolled for no reason, they've got several treaties tieing them to us.

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Pretty much all that open letter accomplished was making everyone who stuck up for GOONS internally look like fools.

It may not have been your intent for it to some off as a "screw you", but frankly that's what it was to us.

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Pretty much all that open letter accomplished was making everyone who stuck up for GOONS internally look like fools.

It may not have been your intent for it to some off as a "screw you", but frankly that's what it was to us.

I agree, shame on GOONS for not taking your attempts to hold your relationship with them hostage lying down.

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Very igood read about someone I hear a lot but do not know... And I must say that your view of the game is pretty interesting and that I can get behind that...

Thanks hawk_11 too for the work

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Pretty much all that open letter accomplished was making everyone who stuck up for GOONS internally look like fools.

It may not have been your intent for it to some off as a "screw you", but frankly that's what it was to us.

Well for what it's worth, my apologies for that.

It's funny that Sardonic appears to still believe that the plan to attack his alliance was started by UPN.

I wasn't talking about WCE.

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I don't really see what the point of this was; Sardonic already said what he said in his thread. If anything, heart of the whole thing is right here: <Sardonic[GOONS]> Still, I'd definitely do it again, I didn't want to just say nothing and let the treaty slip away. Yeah, no duh, you didn't want to miss your chance for a dig at Xiph. I would'v been mad, too. Still, more of what we already know.

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I agree, shame on GOONS for not taking your attempts to hold your relationship with them hostage lying down.

They had every right to be upset. Hell, there were more than a few in GOD upset with cancellation as well. Posting the gloriously public cancellation torpedoed any remorse.

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