SirDelirium Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Before I begin I would like to address a few things. The mandatory "these are not the opinions of my alliance" should be noted. Also, I make up a few terms as I go because naming conventions haven't been decided yet. If you need clarification, ask, but I'm trying to make it apparent. A Review of Karmaism Fundamental Beliefs of the Karmalition as Observed Behind every person, group of people, organization, or coalition, there are beliefs or sets of beliefs that dicate actions in a somewhat predictable manner. The alliances and blocs that we have grown familiar with here on Bob are no different. Each has moral codes and values that are all slightly distinct. Alliances and Blocs come together to form coalitions when these values and beliefs clash. Our current conflict, which I feel is open to comment now that we are starting to see the finish line, sheds light on those differences. For our purposes, there are only two sets of beliefs: those of the Hegemony, and those of the Karmalition. The Hegemony's beliefs stem greatly from Francoism, which I will not even attempt to explain. I recommend reading Vladamir's essays (along with a healthy dose of the comments on them) if you are unfamiliar with it. As it exists in practice, Francoism can basically be summarized by "The NPO will do what it can to preserve itself". Whether or not the great scholars of Pacifica will support that statement is soon to be seen in the responses to this thread. On the opposite side of the conflict lies the Karmalition, led by the set of beliefs I will refer to as Karmaism until someone proposes a better term. I will attempt to construct an overview of these beliefs as they have been demonstrated to me and the rest of Planet Bob through the actions of the leaders of the Karmalition. We should begin looking at Karmaism from its inception, or rather the inception of Karma. Archon announced it with the following statement: "We are Karma incarnate, and we stand in solidarity here today to decree that this action [a declaration of war on OV during peace talks] shall not stand. You [Pacifica] will pay for what you have done" (Karma). It is quite evident that double talk, lies, and deceit are not a tenet of the Karmalition. They give people a fair chance, are impartial, and wouldn't do anything behind someone elses back. A particularly bad action would be to engage in peace talks in which you have no intent of giving peace. "But SirDelirium, I have read Moo's log dump and they gave the NPO a taste of their own medicine," you might say. Well, you would be right. In reality, Karma stands on the actions it stands against. Another tenet held by the Karmalition states that EZI is wrong. I would say this makes them stand apart from the vast majority of the Hegemony and is a very noble thing, but I would be wrong. Directly preceding the war, several large alliances from the Hegemony added amendments to their charters prohibiting EZI and released their EZI targets due to public pressure. One thing that sets Karma apart from the Hegemony is the ease of terms they offer to defeated alliances. This, as is plainly clear, is something they follow with the upmost attention. As of this point, I believe no alliance has had terms harsher than "You shall not re-enter the conflict". I would like to say that this is a major departure from precedent, although I am not confident NPO will get the same treatment. The last major belief of the Karmalition worth noting is the belief that the world should not be unipolar (or that no one Bloc should run the show). Even the name given to the opposition, "Hegemony", is a direct attack at this concept. How deep can this facade go? This is not a war to fight for freedom or soveirgnty. It is a war to fight for power. The fall of the NPO has been proclaimed across the land as the death null of one era and the beginning of another. Unified as they are, Karma can see this new era from birth to death as long as they wish. Divided they cannot stand against the remnants of the Hegemony, assuming they can regroup. This provides us with a dilemna: to usher in the new era, the Karmalition must become the hegemony. This last realization proves that only one thing can be said of Karma: as they exist, they are no different than the Hegemony they fight to destroy. They use back-handed tactics to raise themselves politically. They beat down their enemies because they are envious of their power. There are a few policy changes, but the foundation is the same. Karmaism is Francoism. Karmaism the fresher of two evils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doitzel Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Why must everything be an "-ism" with you people? Stop over-analysing a large group of people collectively saying "you're wrong" and mowing you down with a hot wall of lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severus Snape Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Moved to World Affairs for IC content. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Assumptious to the extreme. I wish I had more hands so I could give this thread 4 thumbs down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Why must everything be an "-ism" with you people? Stop over-analysing a large group of people collectively saying "you're wrong" and mowing you down with a hot wall of lead. There's a siggable quote if ever I saw one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Why must everything be an "-ism" with you people? Stop over-analysing a large group of people collectively saying "you're wrong" and mowing you down with a hot wall of lead. Nobody will be "mowing down" our friends in FACE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geiseric Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Good thing Karma's will doesn't come from just an alliance then? Edited April 30, 2009 by Geiseric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Overlord Shinnra Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Don't pretend there is a Karmaism or that there will be a Karma after this war is over. The truth of the matter is there was no Karma before this war and there will be none after it. The reason being Karma is a defense coaltion come together for the purpose of defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDelirium Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Nobody will be "mowing down" our friends in FACE. Hahah, I was just gonna say that. I happen to not even be involved in the conflict yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kriekfreak Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Another tenet held by the Karmalition states that EZI is wrong. I would say this makes them stand apart from the vast majority of the Hegemony and is a very noble thing, but I would be wrong. I lolled. Would read again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gears of War Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Karma is an Ad Hoc organization; it is not a Bloc and it will not exist as an entity after this war. The fact that the Hegemony has such a hard time understanding this fact says more about them than it does about us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsoxbronco1 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 We practice what we preach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDelirium Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Karma is an Ad Hoc organization; it is not a Bloc and it will not exist as an entity after this war. The fact that the Hegemony has such a hard time understanding this fact says more about them than it does about us. Perhaps it will not exist as a bloc on paper like Q did, but it will remain as an ideological bloc as long as the game is polarized in the current way. Until most of the major players change, Karma will exist in some form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Here, I'm going to give you the nutshell version of Karma: One day, some folks looked around at Planet Bob and thought, "You know? There are some things that are just wrong here." Day's passed, and that number of folks kept growing until they all looked around one day and realized there was enough people there to do something about those things they think are wrong in the world. It isn't about a particular alliance, although I will grant you there are quite a bit of old grudges that some folks want to settle. What this is about, and all it's about, is simply changing some fundamental flaws that a large number of people on the planet want to see changed. Karma isn't a group of alliances, a secret cabal, a school of political thought nor is it anything past a movement for change. Those folks that want to deal out the harshest punishments for past wrongs? Well, all I'll say to that is karma has a habit of coming full circle so it'd be wise to give those thoughts a second look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Those folks that want to deal out the harshest punishments for past wrongs? Well, all I'll say to that is karma has a habit of coming full circle so it'd be wise to give those thoughts a second look. Harsh punishments were dealt in the past; therefore, harsh punishments must be dealt in return. That is karma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delta1212 Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Harsh punishments were dealt in the past; therefore, harsh punishments must be dealt in return. That is karma. Today's present is tomorrow's past. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Druid Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 No one ever said it was a decent system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDog Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Why must everything be an "-ism" with you people? Stop over-analysing a large group of people collectively saying "you're wrong" and mowing you down with a hot wall of lead. I think this sums it up beautifully. Edited April 30, 2009 by SirDog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 (edited) Karma is a rough coalition of groups. We're not a bloc, we're not even all really allies of friendship. Many of us are allies of convienence and after this war we will go back to not caring or even disliking each other (actually some will likely gain new anger for their "allies" from having to deal with their idiocy in such close quarters). PZI was indeed dropped by MOST of the Hegemony. However a few (NPO and TPF I believe are the notable ones) merely change the policy to "Eh, we'll do it if we think we should." Hardly a step up, merely a show of admitting they can't really toss it around anymore. I'm pretty sure if they had come out on top there would be perma-ZI's left and right. There is no set group of beliefs here. We just think NPO's obsession with power and the method's they've taken to enforce it have to be stopped. They need to be humbled and brought back down to our level. After that...I honestly hope the power forces break up. I would love to see the power blocs break up and the former Hegemony a bit scattered or too weakened to simply rise up and crush those who formerly beat them back down. And truth be told I expect that to happen. I cannot even imagine Karma doing anything besides shatter after the war ends. Though if NPO and co pulled off a major recovery and came back to crush us I expect we might come back together in mutual self interest (horribly unlikely I know!). EDIT: Typing at 3 AM with almost no sleep doesn't do well for spelling and grammar. Edited April 30, 2009 by Orkules Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirDelirium Posted April 30, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Karma is a rough coalition of groups. We're not a bloc, we're not even all really allies of friendship. Many of us are allies of convienence and after this war we will go back to not caring or even disliking each other (actually some will likely gain new anger for their "allies" from having to deal with their idiocy in such close quarters). If I might ask, what was Q? Exactly the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 If I might ask, what was Q? Exactly the same thing. And they had direct and on paper ties. We have nothing bringing us together aside from a few scraps of paper tenuously connecting certain groups. I expect a lot of those will disappear as we find no more overarching group and the game polarizes. You mistake Karma for an alliance. We are a movement. A movement of change. Once the change is wrought, movement's break up, they scatter. The different proponents of the movement want to do different things with what they've gained. Some will want to just have fun, some to sit in their corner and play their own games, some to dominate. And some to gain revenge. And so we'll scatter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King DrunkWino Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Harsh punishments were dealt in the past; therefore, harsh punishments must be dealt in return. That is karma. Fun facts about the past: The world was believed flat Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition People would never fly Light was provided by the sun or open flame People when outside to relieve themselves and there still is no such thing as flushing an outhouse Reading was considered reserved for only the smartest Slavery was a good thing and so on. Point being that just cause somebody else did it, doesn't mean you get to rationalize away any moral objections you or anyone else has to the idea of harsh punishments. /I typed that out and then realized it didn't directly relate to your thought. With that in mind I say this: karma coming around for somebody else doesn't mean you can sink to that level to deliver it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moridin Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Here, I'm going to give you the nutshell version of Karma:One day, some folks looked around at Planet Bob and thought, "You know? There are some things that are just wrong here." Day's passed, and that number of folks kept growing until they all looked around one day and realized there was enough people there to do something about those things they think are wrong in the world. It isn't about a particular alliance, although I will grant you there are quite a bit of old grudges that some folks want to settle. What this is about, and all it's about, is simply changing some fundamental flaws that a large number of people on the planet want to see changed. Karma isn't a group of alliances, a secret cabal, a school of political thought nor is it anything past a movement for change. Why, that sounds strikingly like an alliance that started out around last August or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orkules Posted April 30, 2009 Report Share Posted April 30, 2009 Harsh punishments were dealt in the past; therefore, harsh punishments must be dealt in return. That is karma. I will not resort to their level to punish them for their crimes. If you resort to genocide to punish a country for the act of genocide you are no better than them. I refuse to sink to their level. I have openly stated to my leaders that if they endorse the use of perma-ZI or forced re-rolls after this game I will walk. That is simply all there is to it. I have been perma-ZI'd, I will not do it to somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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