ChairmanHal Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282572318' post='2427712'] My God, Haf....could you be any more dense? The NpO did backflips to avoid that war, including overthrowing their Emperor in a most unsavory manner. Saying "they didn't change anything" is nonsense. [/quote] Ahh yes, the July 4th Polar Coup...good times. I think Polar stills claims that Sponge was removed "legally" btw. I was one of those back in 2008 quoting their own charter to them telling them they weren't. I think the response was something to the affect of "we're giving you what you wanted, please leave us alone". Didn't work out so well. Too much blood in the water. At any rate, I had spoken with MM in the past on a number of occasions regarding \m/'s need to not give in to becoming a public spectacle such that they would be pointed at as being "Bel Air 2.0" (too much lulz) and not "\m/ reinvented" (a mix of lulz and enough srs bns that they would be taken seriously). As such this past week is a glorious Springeresque (as in Jerry Springer, seen on various Haleenstar TV stations in syndication) train wreck. Marx and company would do well to shut up, regroup, and figure out how to rebuild some numbers. Recruiting, not Forum presence, should be their focus, along with behind the scenes fence mending. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RePePe Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Arguing and defending your honor in public is all well and good. But when you're neck deep in %^&*, you probably have other things to be worried about. Fix your home, then come out here and shoo all the green flies. Not the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Janova Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 Yeah I'm not quite sure of Haflinger's argument there myself, NpO was widely hated in summer 2008 and that led fairly directly to them being rolled and losing around half their strength. Sure, they got themselves back into a decent position a year later, but that was largely due to [i]shedding[/i] the arrogance and 'we don't care what you think' and having straight forward, honest discussions with the alliances which had hated them in the aftermath of the war, as well as effectively sitting out the major wars of 2009. Polar of 2008 are actually a pretty good example of how not caring that you're destroying your PR with the 'peanut gallery' can end badly for you, like Karma and the Unjust War, and NSO today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallen Fool Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 (edited) [quote name='ChairmanHal' timestamp='1282574372' post='2427725']Ahh yes, the July 4th Polar Coup...good times. I think Polar stills claims that Sponge was removed "legally" btw. ;)I was one of those back in 2008 quoting their own charter to them telling them they weren't. I think the response was something to the affect of "we're giving you what you wanted, please leave us alone". Didn't work out so well. Too much blood in the water.[/quote]The method we used was the most legalistic one available to us, but I don't recall anyone putting up an especially spirited defense of it. In fact, I'm pretty sure I can recall both Penguin and Grub confirming that we, in effect, bent our charter past the breaking point in removing Sponge, though that may have been in one of the dozens of individual Q&A's they did in the aftermath of the coup. [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282584724' post='2427886'] Yeah I'm not quite sure of Haflinger's argument there myself, NpO was widely hated in summer 2008 and that led fairly directly to them being rolled and losing around half their strength. Sure, they got themselves back into a decent position a year later, but that was largely due to [i]shedding[/i] the arrogance and 'we don't care what you think' and having straight forward, honest discussions with the alliances which had hated them in the aftermath of the war, as well as effectively sitting out the major wars of 2009. Polar of 2008 are actually a pretty good example of how not caring that you're destroying your PR with the 'peanut gallery' can end badly for you, like Karma and the Unjust War, and NSO today. [/quote]I took Haf to mean Hizzy individually survived and thrived in the time between 2008 and now without changing, not Hizzy as a representative of Polar. But I could be wrong. Also you're overstating the effect of PR and the 'peanut gallery'. Can they be an effective means for implementing change? Sure. They can also, however, largely be ignored if an alliance has a strong enough base internally and within its group of allies. That's how NPO, in effect, remained in an untouchable position from the end of Great War II to Karma. They didn't have to be popular amongst the common people as long as the common people followed and respected their own leaders who, in turn, followed, respected, and feared the NPO. Edited August 23, 2010 by Fallen Fool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jrenster Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 [quote name='Bob Janova' timestamp='1282584724' post='2427886'] Yeah I'm not quite sure of Haflinger's argument there myself, NpO was widely hated in summer 2008 and that led fairly directly to them being rolled and losing around half their strength. Sure, they got themselves back into a decent position a year later, but that was largely due to [i]shedding[/i] the arrogance and 'we don't care what you think' and having straight forward, honest discussions with the alliances which had hated them in the aftermath of the war, as well as effectively sitting out the major wars of 2009. Polar of 2008 are actually a pretty good example of how not caring that you're destroying your PR with the 'peanut gallery' can end badly for you, like Karma and the Unjust War, and NSO today. [/quote] I'm not sure why we keep popping up in these conversations. We are doing just fine, thank you very much. We are not ignoring the peanut gallery, but that does not mean that we mostly care about what the peanut gallery thinks about us. As for \m/, it died when they kicked out MM, so there's really no more point to their existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haflinger Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 [quote name='Ashoka the Great' timestamp='1282572318' post='2427712'] My God, Haf....could you be any more dense? The NpO did backflips to avoid that war, including overthrowing their Emperor in a most unsavory manner. Saying "they didn't change anything" is nonsense. [/quote] Zog, I'm not talking about Polaris. I'm talking about Hizzy. Hizzy wasn't one of the backflippers, heh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 [quote name='Rebel Virginia' timestamp='1282544268' post='2427396'] [color="#0000FF"]Actually, he does. The NPO had a policy of "not responding to the critics," especially during Vox's hay day. Not responding to Vox did more damage than responding ever would have. Sparta does the same. While they say things, they never respond to criticisms. That doesn't help their image. So as you can see, radio silence in whatever form it takes is never a good PR strategy, and Marx should know that. In the interest of his alliance he really should be doing some damage control on this sinking ship.[/color] [/quote] To be honest, most of the critics here have been our consistant critics who have always criticised most, if not everything, we have done. We do not need to respond to them, they will hate us whatever we do. The only thing they would ever praise is a disbandment notice, and even then it would be a backhand praise. I know this. You know this. We gain nothing by trading insults or witty sayings here for the amusement of the peanut gallery. We have other matters to attend to, more internal matters, that will be taking up our efforts. We will make a return here when we are ready. You folks can keep calling us out, and if you really need to talk to us you can contacts us on IRC, but we will be bowing out of the OWF for the time being. Those who need to talk to us can do so on IRC or visit our forums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kzoppistan Posted August 23, 2010 Report Share Posted August 23, 2010 [quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1282593053' post='2428022'] To be honest, most of the critics here have been our consistant critics who have always criticised most, if not everything, we have done. We do not need to respond to them, they will hate us whatever we do. The only thing they would ever praise is a disbandment notice, and even then it would be a backhand praise. I know this. You know this. We gain nothing by trading insults or witty sayings here for the amusement of the peanut gallery. We have other matters to attend to, more internal matters, that will be taking up our efforts. We will make a return here when we are ready. You folks can keep calling us out, and if you really need to talk to us you can contacts us on IRC, but we will be bowing out of the OWF for the time being. Those who need to talk to us can do so on IRC or visit our forums. [/quote] Smartest thing I've heard from \m/ in a while. Best to duck, run, and stay out of site when you know the enemy has full ammo. [quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1282593053' post='2428022']We gain nothing by trading insults or witty sayings here for the amusement of the peanut gallery. [/quote] Such a shame, such a shame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 [quote name='Haflinger' timestamp='1282592186' post='2428003'] Zog, I'm not talking about Polaris. I'm talking about Hizzy. Hizzy wasn't one of the backflippers, heh. [/quote] True, but my point was directed at an alliance in general, or at the very least an alliances leadership. I've never been in command of an alliance. If I was, then I'm not sure what I would do if I were in \m/s position right now... but what I do know is that I certainly wouldn't have let it get to this in the first place; not because I'm a better alliance leader or a more competent diplomat, but because I'm not a jackass. If Marx wants to resign his .gov position and act like a fool day and night, nobody will hold that against \m/, and that was the same point that STA made to \m/ government regarding MM: if MM wants to ignore the ceasefire, then he can't hold a .gov position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 [quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1282593053' post='2428022'] To be honest, most of the critics here have been our consistant critics who have always criticised most, if not everything, we have done. We do not need to respond to them, they will hate us whatever we do. The only thing they would ever praise is a disbandment notice, and even then it would be a backhand praise. I know this. You know this. We gain nothing by trading insults or witty sayings here for the amusement of the peanut gallery. We have other matters to attend to, more internal matters, that will be taking up our efforts. We will make a return here when we are ready. You folks can keep calling us out, and if you really need to talk to us you can contacts us on IRC, but we will be bowing out of the OWF for the time being. Those who need to talk to us can do so on IRC or visit our forums. [/quote] I always love hearing this justification. "oh, they would hate us no matter what we do, so obviously we're not doing anything wrong". Instead of trying to comfort yourself with the delusion that it's your destiny to be hated, why not try to see what's bringing you all the negative criticism in the first place? You keep saying "oh they will hate us whatever we do", but have you ever actually tried something different? of course not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caliph Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1282626955' post='2428885'] I always love hearing this justification. "oh, they would hate us no matter what we do, so obviously we're not doing anything wrong". Instead of trying to comfort yourself with the delusion that it's your destiny to be hated, why not try to see what's bringing you all the negative criticism in the first place? You keep saying "oh they will hate us whatever we do", but have you ever actually tried something different? of course not. [/quote] Perhaps we are doing something different, however continuing to discuss this on the OWF does not help our situation one bit. Therefore, I will bow out of these discussions until such a time comes when we are ready to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingchaos Posted August 24, 2010 Report Share Posted August 24, 2010 [quote name='Caliph' timestamp='1282593053' post='2428022'] To be honest, most of the critics here have been our consistant critics who have always criticised most, if not everything, we have done. We do not need to respond to them, they will hate us whatever we do. The only thing they would ever praise is a disbandment notice, and even then it would be a backhand praise. I know this. You know this. We gain nothing by trading insults or witty sayings here for the amusement of the peanut gallery. We have other matters to attend to, more internal matters, that will be taking up our efforts. We will make a return here when we are ready. You folks can keep calling us out, and if you really need to talk to us you can contacts us on IRC, but we will be bowing out of the OWF for the time being. Those who need to talk to us can do so on IRC or visit our forums. [/quote] More busy running \m/ into the ground? Job well done sir. Nice loss of NS ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hizzy Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 [quote name='ragingchaos' timestamp='1282693020' post='2430071'] More busy running \m/ into the ground? Job well done sir. Nice loss of NS ;-) [/quote] wow no !@#$ eh. who left? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ragingchaos Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1282698879' post='2430170'] wow no !@#$ eh. who left? [/quote] Just a few of us......just happens to be some of the larger nations and maybe a few more stragglers will be on their way. Edited August 25, 2010 by ragingchaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schad Posted August 25, 2010 Report Share Posted August 25, 2010 [quote name='hizzy' timestamp='1282698879' post='2430170'] wow no !@#$ eh. who left? [/quote] http://www.cybernations.net/allNations_display_alliances.asp?Page=1&Order=DESC&Field=Alliance_Date&Alliance=Seaworthy%20Liberian%20Cardboard%20Boxes Most of the new nations are the departed \m/embers, with a couple more elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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