In Response to Recent Drama

[Sulmar]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1281570612' post='2411739']
Damnit, I thought I had read the whole thread. I must have missed it, or I would have responded.
[/quote]
I got your back, bro.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90386&st=660&p=2408656&#entry2408656

[kerschbs]

[quote name='Sulmar' timestamp='1281571396' post='2411761']
I got your back, bro.

http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=90386&st=660&p=2408656&#entry2408656
[/quote]

Meh, wasn't as bad as I expected. I'll admit, when NSO approached GATO (I was a member at the time) I thought the idea was a fantastic one, and NSO did treat us very well in the beginning of our relationship. After they signed a treaty with IRON, and after other shens, my perspective changed. Good quoting by Griff though, I guess I was laying it on a little thick, emotion getting the better of me.

Edited August 12, 2010 by kerschbs

[Jrenster]

[quote name='kerschbs' timestamp='1281571691' post='2411766']
Meh, wasn't as bad as I expected. I'll admit, when NSO approached GATO (I was a member at the time) I thought the idea was a fantastic one, and NSO did treat us very well in the beginning of our relationship. After they signed a treaty with IRON, and after other shens, my perspective changed. Good quoting by Griff though, I guess I was laying it on a little thick, emotion getting the better of me.
[/quote]

Yeah, I still don't get it. You're mad at us because we were allied to IRON? I mean !@#$. We hate some of your allies; doesn't mean we didn't like you. And I don't think you get to judge about our shenanigans because you never came to our aid for said shenanigans.

We weren't being the bad ally here dude. Your policy of taking the moral high-ground before defending your ally is arguably immoral. If your friend makes a bad decision, you would let them fall for it. But what do I care. I'm not in the morality business. Just saying.

[Sabertooth]

Honestly, I do not understand why any alliance would try so hard to avoid war. War is fun. Growing your nation years on end is boring.

[Adrian LaCroix]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281571945' post='2411772']
Yeah, I still don't get it. You're mad at us because we were allied to IRON? I mean !@#$. We hate some of your allies; doesn't mean we didn't like you. [b]And I don't think you get to judge about our shenanigans because you never came to our aid for said shenanigans.[/b]

We weren't being the bad ally here dude. Your policy of taking the moral high-ground before defending your ally is arguably immoral. If your friend makes a bad decision, you would let them fall for it. But what do I care. I'm not in the morality business. Just saying.
[/quote]

Do what now?

[magicninja]

[quote name='Heft' timestamp='1281565970' post='2411645']
I'm not sure publicly labeling us as the "bad guy" immediately after canceling our treaty for a completely nonsensical reason is really the best way to go here.
[/quote]

I was making generalizations. Guilty conscience?

[SpoiL]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281553924' post='2411414']
I can understand but this has been GATO's stance for nearly 5 years. If people don;t know we won;t help militarily if you obviously are the bad guy in a situation then I don't know what to tell people. If they want to misconstrue that as cowardice I guess we can;t stop them.

All our allies are aware of the stipulation in our charter. NSO knew it too. Most respond with "I wouldn't expect you to anyway." I think all of our treaties are non-chaining so we probably wouldn't defend an ally who is defending the obvious bad guy in a larger war. However, if you are obviously attacked without provocation, take Athens and ODN this last big war, we're with you all they way. In a way it prevents allies from making bad decisions too I would hope.
[/quote]

There's [i]always[/i] two sides to a story, so you can expect GATO to e-lawyer their way out of the losing side. This has been their policy for nearly 5 years, it's almost a constant of Cybernations. It's funny, because I already expected you to be piss poor 'allies', so one of the first things I wondered at the beginning of this whole spectacle was how GATO was going to try to get out of it. Then when we relieve you of having to weasel your way out of it, you still choose to hang yourselves. It's a shame that the only people that can count on you are the ones that statistically don't need you anyway.

Edited August 12, 2010 by SpoiL

[magicninja]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281566665' post='2411660']
You are trying to cover one poor excuse with another one, no it isn't about "timing", it's about principles. I'm almost sure that if one of the alliances who GATO's news FA is aiming had made the same mistake, your gov would have tried to fix the mistake instead of saying "YOU MADE A MISTAKE IT'S VOID!". You don't abandon a friend in need just because they made a mistake, and a really small one since they hadn't put GATO in any risk.
[/quote]

Who asked you to interpret our treaties for us? We don't interpret yours so give us the same respect. If you wouldn;t cancel fine. Apparently you have lower standards.

[magicninja]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1281571304' post='2411756']
Which reminds me. Is GATO ever going to send us the rebuilding aid you promised us after the Bipolar war?
[/quote]

Well, I was for it but with this new trolling barrage I doubt it.

[magicninja]

[quote name='Jrenster' timestamp='1281571945' post='2411772']
Yeah, I still don't get it. You're mad at us because we were allied to IRON? I mean !@#$. We hate some of your allies; doesn't mean we didn't like you. And I don't think you get to judge about our shenanigans because you never came to our aid for said shenanigans.

We weren't being the bad ally here dude. Your policy of taking the moral high-ground before defending your ally is arguably immoral. If your friend makes a bad decision, you would let them fall for it. But what do I care. I'm not in the morality business. Just saying.
[/quote]

Well then people in the habit of making bad decisions shouldn't be allies with us and they won't have to worry about it.

[Adrian LaCroix]

[quote name='SpoiL' timestamp='1281573516' post='2411805']
There's [i]always[/i] two sides to a story, [b]so you can expect GATO to e-lawyer their way out of the losing side. This has been their policy for nearly 5 years, it's almost a constant of Cybernations.[/b] It's funny, because I already expected you to be piss poor 'allies', so one of the first things I wondered at the beginning of this whole spectacle was how GATO was going to try to get out of it. Then when we relieve you of having to weasel your way out of it, you still choose to hang yourselves. It's a shame that the only people that can count on you are the ones that statistically don't need you anyway.
[/quote]

Examples of this happening, please. I can't think of any in the last 2.5 years, and before that I can't think of a war they won off the top of my head.

[TehChron]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281573647' post='2411808']
Well, I was for it but with this new trolling barrage I doubt it.
[/quote]
Actually, it turns out there have been a large number of mistruths and outright lies being told by you and yours.

Turns out you never did bother to give us a heads up after all.

Whoops.

[heggo]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281573647' post='2411808']
Well, I was for it but with this new trolling barrage I doubt it.
[/quote]
Is it bad that I find it plausible that you were still planning on sending us Bipolar War rebuilding aid, but that you simply took this long to get around to making a decision on it?

[magicninja]

[quote name='Chron' timestamp='1281574041' post='2411817']
Actually, it turns out there have been a large number of mistruths and outright lies being told by you and yours.

Turns out you never did bother to give us a heads up after all.

Whoops.
[/quote]

Nice. Now we won't be labeled as info dumpers.

[magicninja]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1281574409' post='2411824']
Is it bad that I find it plausible that you were still planning on sending us Bipolar War rebuilding aid, but that you simply took this long to get around to making a decision on it?
[/quote]

I got some logs somewhere of me and one of your gov people...maybe even you saying that the tech deals we did were enough.

[Lennox]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281574474' post='2411827']
Nice. Now we won't be labeled as info dumpers.
[/quote]

It's ok, we will.

[TehChron]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281574474' post='2411827']
Nice. Now we won't be labeled as info dumpers.
[/quote]
Well, considering whats behind Door Number 2, I guess you could say that being an info dumper is better.

Or rather, lying about being one. But hey, I guess everything's relative. I just think it's a shame.

You all still had lots of friends over in NSO.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Chron

[heggo]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281574474' post='2411827']
Nice. Now we won't be labeled as info dumpers.
[/quote]
The fact that you didn't tell us about the war but then dropped us for not finding out about it before you is deeply ironic.


[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281574573' post='2411829']
I got some logs somewhere of me and one of your gov people...maybe even you saying that the tech deals we did were enough.
[/quote]
The only logs that exist chiefly between you and I was of me chewing you out for ditching us in the Bipolar War.

[D34th]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281573553' post='2411807']
Who asked you to interpret our treaties for us? We don't interpret yours so give us the same respect. If you wouldn;t cancel fine. Apparently you have lower standards.
[/quote]

Thanks for avoiding all that I said because I'm not interpreting your treaty, but reading your answer I can interpret that you see nothing wrong with abandon a friend in times of need neither you see nothing wrong in canceling this treaty right now since you think that I have lower standards regarding my opinion of keep the treaty.

[quote][i]"True friendship isn't about being there when it's convenient; it's about being there when it's not.”[/i][/quote]

[magicninja]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281575250' post='2411842']
Thanks for avoiding all that I said because I'm not interpreting your treaty, but reading your answer I can interpret that you see nothing wrong with abandon a friend in times of need neither you see nothing wrong in canceling this treaty right now since you think that I have lower standards regarding my opinion of keep the treaty.
[/quote]

I'm just saying we get to decide how and when one of our treaties is violated not you and I think handing the cancellation in now was appalling but the cancellation itself was brilliant looking at it now anyway.

[Lazarus Long]

That is a cheap response to an ally under attack.

They didn't tell you they were going to get rolled fast enough for you? Ever consider that they didn't know?

Ridiculous and GATO is pathetic. I'm glad we have nothing to do with you.

If I enter this war, it'll likely be against NSO. But Lint will remain one of my bestfriends. NSO is good people, if they need a correction, I'll be happy to administer it but GATO is irrelevant and can exit the discussion. Wusses.

[Jrenster]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281573778' post='2411813']
Well then people in the habit of making bad decisions shouldn't be allies with us and they won't have to worry about it.
[/quote]

I don't think that was a counter to my argument at all. And by the way. You're in a thread where you made a bad decision. You still have good people in GATO, but some of you guys are just being plain dumb with this.

[Omniscient1]

[quote name='heggo' timestamp='1281574997' post='2411839']
The fact that you didn't tell us about the war but then dropped us for not finding out about it before you is deeply ironic.



The only logs that exist chiefly between you and I was of me chewing you out for ditching us in the Bipolar War.
[/quote]

Our allies in Athens and ODN were hit first. That's basically the only thing you guys have ever done is !@#$%* about how we never help you.


[quote name='Lazarus Long' timestamp='1281576791' post='2411877']
That is a cheap response to an ally under attack.

They didn't tell you they were going to get rolled fast enough for you? [b]Ever consider that they didn't know?[/b]

Ridiculous and GATO is pathetic. I'm glad we have nothing to do with you.

If I enter this war, it'll likely be against NSO. But Lint will remain one of my bestfriends. NSO is good people, if they need a correction, I'll be happy to administer it but GATO is irrelevant and can exit the discussion. Wusses.
[/quote]

That's impossible. It's impossible to not know you sent aid to someone and it to be considered an act when the person just told you it would be. Nice try at spinning it though.

[D34th]

[quote name='magicninja' timestamp='1281576434' post='2411870']
I'm just saying we get to decide how and when one of our treaties is violated.
[/quote]

I said otherwise? I don't think so, what I said was that said violation was not big enough for cancel a treaty since NSO doesn't put GATO in any real risk, what I'm saying is that GATO used this violation as the poor excuse that you're looking for to cancel the treaty and in other situation with the same violation but with a well connected alliance I'm almost certain that GATO would have fixed the issue instead of cancel the treaty.

Edited August 12, 2010 by D34th

[Believland]

[quote name='D34th' timestamp='1281575250' post='2411842']
[i]"True friendship isn't about being there when it's convenient; it's about being there when it's not.”[/i]
[/quote]

Then where are you?

GATO had every right to cancel on NSO. NSO knew they were going to get attacked, failure to inform their allies is their problem not GATO's.