OOC Shields

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1277568986' post='2351018']
And if the other person's nation and the other person's storyline has them in an expansionist-set nation? Nobody can disagree that [b]Triyun has RP'd a Chinese nation that has been critical of Articuno Islands and advocates having China reunified - indeed, having Asia unified. In that sense, Keshav has no respect for Triyun's nation and the storyline developed by simply barring him from performing his actions.[/b]

If the parties involved cannot agree in the first place, then it shows that one or both of the players is unwilling to compromise and in that case it should be looked into to see if either one of the players is intentionally being, to be blunt, a dick.


The problem is that it's [b]Keshav overriding what Triyun wants[/b]; Triyun has no power to override anything Keshav does.
[/quote]

Are you serious? Please tell me you are joking or being sarcastic there.

What Triyun wants is to get Keshav's land IC. And Keshav is fighting it IC. Does "respect" for Triyun's nation mean he has to quit his IC nation without fighting?

Also unwilling to compromise? Is Triyun even willing to offer a compromise? He wants Keshav driven out of his land, that certainly shows us who is being the dick here. Keshav has not been avoiding any war, if it is possible for you to comprehend that well and good.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='king of cochin' date='26 June 2010 - 11:22 AM' timestamp='1277569309' post='2351023']
Are you serious? Please tell me you are joking or being sarcastic there.

What Triyun wants is to get Keshav's land IC. And Keshav is fighting it IC. Does "respect" for Triyun's nation mean he has to quit his IC nation without fighting?

Also unwilling to compromise? Is Triyun even willing to offer a compromise? He wants Keshav driven out of his land, that certainly shows us who is being the dick here. Keshav has not been avoiding any war, if it is possible for you to comprehend that well and good.
[/quote]

Keshav wasn't going to fight it IC until a lot of OOC pressure came and made him change his mind. Further, he isn't even fighting the war, he's essentially make someone else do it for him. Keshav is avoiding the war in every way possible and doing the minimum amount of work in an attempt to save face.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 11:59 PM' timestamp='1277576934' post='2351105']
Keshav wasn't going to fight it IC until a lot of OOC pressure came and made him change his mind. Further, he isn't even fighting the war, he's essentially make someone else do it for him. Keshav is avoiding the war in every way possible and doing the minimum amount of work in an attempt to save face.
[/quote]

Are you arguing that only those people who know or have an interest in war RP should be RPing here? Are you arguing that people who dont know mechanisms of warfare should not RP here? I thought this is CNRP, not just CN "War" RP. I do not believe CNRP has degraded to such a level.

So what if Keshav asked for my help in warfare? As per guidelines it has already been accepted that I cant post the battles for him, but where does it say I am not supposed to suggest them for him?

If I extend that argument, should people be using military technology they do not understand? Minimum amount of work? I am helping him of my own volition! If I dont have a complaint against that what right do you have to complain?

As regards keshav's decision to fight, I believe only the fact that he is willing to fight ICly matters. Also for your information, I am just helping in some areas of this warfare, there are other aspects of this warfare that he is creating himself. So please, try to get the facts straight before you start assuming things.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='king of cochin' date='26 June 2010 - 01:40 PM' timestamp='1277577606' post='2351115']
-snip-
[/quote]

That he had to almost be forced to participate IC shows a lot about not only his character but his attitude about this community. He refused to participate without having someone else do most of the work, he has already arbitrarily put limits on what Triyun could have done, and has hidden behind an OOC screen in order to minimize his IC losses.

It's not only pathetic but disgusting.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Sargun' date='27 June 2010 - 12:51 AM' timestamp='1277580070' post='2351135']
That he had to almost be forced to participate IC shows a lot about not only his character but his attitude about this community. He refused to participate without having someone else do most of the work, he has already arbitrarily put limits on what Triyun could have done, and has hidden behind an OOC screen in order to minimize his IC losses.

It's not only pathetic but disgusting.
[/quote]

Pray what limits has he put on Triyun? Forcing him to play to IG stats+multipliers? And what OOC screen has he hid behind? Are you suggesting that there is no defense against those "unbeatable" tactics? Again you did not answer my question, what is wrong with keshav asking for help in military RP? Are only those expert at military RP supposed to RP here?

I cannot speak for keshav's skills in military RP, but I offered to help him. Attitude and character? Interesting that you are now stooping down to personal attacks of that nature. I do not want to respond to that question about attitude and character. I believe that is a judgment that this community would make after seeing the events unfold.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='king of cochin' date='26 June 2010 - 02:27 PM' timestamp='1277580429' post='2351141']
Pray what limits has he put on Triyun? Forcing him to play to IG stats+multipliers? And what OOC screen has he hid behind? Are you suggesting that there is no defense against those "unbeatable" tactics? Again you did not answer my question, what is wrong with keshav asking for help in military RP? Are only those expert at military RP supposed to RP here?

I cannot speak for keshav's skills in military RP, but I offered to help him. Attitude and character? Interesting that you are now stooping down to personal attacks of that nature. I do not want to respond to that question about attitude and character. I believe that is a judgment that this community would make after seeing the events unfold.
[/quote]

Keshav admitted to refusing to let Triyun fully RP the extent of his armed forces before by ensuring that they could not even move into certain places or engage certain troops. He hid behind Botha Mode despite his full knowledge that the war was not over. There's nothing wrong with him asking for help - but there is something wrong when you hide until somebody else comes and does it for you.

Actions speak louder than words, and what Keshav has done (and not done) speaks much more than "but he's doing the war and that's all that matters".

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 07:30 PM' timestamp='1277580635' post='2351144']
Keshav admitted to refusing to let Triyun fully RP the extent of his armed forces before by ensuring that they could not even move into certain places or engage certain troops. He hid behind Botha Mode despite his full knowledge that the war was not over. There's nothing wrong with him asking for help - but there is something wrong when you hide until somebody else comes and does it for you.

Actions speak louder than words, and what Keshav has done (and not done) speaks much more than "but he's doing the war and that's all that matters".
[/quote]

What are these certain places? Eh, you know nothing of the subject you are actually arguing about Sargun. Better give up.

[king of cochin]

[quote name='Sargun' date='27 June 2010 - 01:00 AM' timestamp='1277580635' post='2351144']
Keshav admitted to refusing to let Triyun fully RP the extent of his armed forces before by ensuring that they could not even move into certain places or engage certain troops. He hid behind Botha Mode despite his full knowledge that the war was not over. There's nothing wrong with him asking for help - but there is something wrong when you hide until somebody else comes and does it for you.

Actions speak louder than words, and what Keshav has done (and not done) speaks much more than "but he's doing the war and that's all that matters".
[/quote]

I am really sorry that you continue to see it in this way. I do not see any point in continuing this fruitless discussion which would only get dirtier the more it progresses. I really hope that you would budge from your own perspective and try to see it from a second person, or even third person perspective. Of course, everyone has their limitations.

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='26 June 2010 - 02:34 PM' timestamp='1277580838' post='2351148']
What are these certain places? Eh, you know nothing of the subject you are actually arguing about Sargun. Better give up.
[/quote]
Fortunately for you, 80mb of text logs tend to crash notepad when opened.

However, I've accomplished my goal - I remember that conversation you and Triyun had in #cnrp quite clearly, and now that I know you're a liar there's nothing else I have to say. Thanks for proving my point.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 07:42 PM' timestamp='1277581339' post='2351151']
Fortunately for you, 80mb of text logs tend to crash notepad when opened.

However, I've accomplished my goal - I remember that conversation you and Triyun had in #cnrp quite clearly, and now that I know you're a liar there's nothing else I have to say. Thanks for proving my point.
[/quote]


Lying in what way :v

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='26 June 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1277581463' post='2351153']
Lying in what way :v
[/quote]

Hong Kong? I had to go from bottom up and then notepad crashed again I really should split those logs.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 07:52 PM' timestamp='1277581905' post='2351162']
Hong Kong? I had to go from bottom up and then notepad crashed again I really should split those logs.
[/quote]

I never denied asking Triyun If I could keep Hong Kong while giving away 6 Provinces and East Beijing. He agreed, I don't see whats wrong in that . Though I didn't stop him from blockading it during the war, he controlled for the duration of our conflict till the cease fire.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Sir Keshav IV' date='26 June 2010 - 02:54 PM' timestamp='1277582025' post='2351165']
I never denied asking Triyun If I could keep Hong Kong while giving away 6 Provinces and East Beijing. He agreed, I don't see whats wrong in that . Though I didn't stop him from blockading it during the war, he controlled for the duration of our conflict till the cease fire.
[/quote]

He gave away Hong Kong. You didn't give away anything. ICly, Triyun conquered those provinces and had the capability to do much more, including keeping Hong Kong and the rest of Beijing - or much less. Yet he had to negotiate OOCly in order to do something ICly, which is a travesty.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Sargun' date='26 June 2010 - 07:57 PM' timestamp='1277582259' post='2351166']
He gave away Hong Kong. You didn't give away anything. ICly, Triyun conquered those provinces and had the capability to do much more, including keeping Hong Kong and the rest of Beijing - or much less. Yet he had to negotiate OOCly in order to do something ICly, which is a travesty.
[/quote]

Right coming to a mutually agreed settlement is wrong! Oh and I've had control of Hong Kong for a long long time. He didn't give it away.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[Triyun]

I think he's referring to the fact that you refused to let me continue my advance North unless I allowed you to take back Hong Kong at the end when you weren't really in a position to push me back that far or take Hong Kong. You told me OOC you wouldn't agree to the war elsewhere if I didn't give you back Hong Kong in-spite of the fact it was completely undefended.

[Sir Keshav IV]

[quote name='Triyun' date='26 June 2010 - 08:09 PM' timestamp='1277582950' post='2351174']
I think he's referring to the fact that you refused to let me continue my advance North unless I allowed you to take back Hong Kong at the end when you weren't really in a position to push me back that far or take Hong Kong. You told me OOC you wouldn't agree to the war elsewhere if I didn't give you back Hong Kong in-spite of the fact it was completely undefended.
[/quote]

Hong Kong was the only decision I really asked for the last time. I didn't stop the war from proceeding.

Edited June 26, 2010 by Sir Keshav IV

[Saarkin Cor]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='26 June 2010 - 10:08 AM' timestamp='1277568465' post='2351006']
Sounds to me like what one person not in the "mode" wants overrides what the person in the "mode" wants, and will fight against the opposite ever happening.
[/quote]

Sticky situation isn't it?

[Vedran]

Using IG as a shield isn't really Botha mode, more like Junio mode.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Saarkin Cor' date='26 June 2010 - 05:45 PM' timestamp='1277599520' post='2351416']
Sticky situation isn't it?
[/quote]
Give this man a medal

[Botha]

[quote name='Vedran' date='28 June 2010 - 01:58 PM' timestamp='1277758663' post='2353116']Using IG as a shield isn't really Botha mode, more like Junio mode.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]Well let's be fair here, guaranteed that any existing nation that opts to switch to Botha mode is going to be accused of playing in Junio mode.

But the reality is very, very few nations start out in Botha mode right from the get-go as newbs to CNRP aren't going to be that aware of that playing style (or any style, for that matter) - while an existing player be it re-roll or current nation will be branded as 'escaping' into Junio mode.

There will never be a suitable solution to this question - because we will never agree on who has the greater say over one's own nation, the player themselves or the community as a whole.[/color]

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Botha' date='28 June 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1277765821' post='2353287']
[color="#000080"]Well let's be fair here, guaranteed that any existing nation that opts to switch to Botha mode is going to be accused of playing in Junio mode.

But the reality is very, very few nations start out in Botha mode right from the get-go as newbs to CNRP aren't going to be that aware of that playing style (or any style, for that matter) - while an existing player be it re-roll or current nation will be branded as 'escaping' into Junio mode.

There will never be a suitable solution to this question - because we will never agree on who has the greater say over one's own nation, the player themselves or the community as a whole.[/color]
[/quote]

The idea some people came up with is the person had to re-roll in to Botha style as opposed to a transition in to if from a non-Botha style nation.

[Botha]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='28 June 2010 - 04:07 PM' timestamp='1277766447' post='2353304']The idea some people came up with is the person had to re-roll in to Botha style as opposed to a transition in to if from a non-Botha style nation.[/quote]

[color="#000080"]LOL I hardly see the difference actually, as to me re-rolling in RP is just as much of an 'escape clause' than is simply transitioning between one mode to the other.

I should probably add that in regards to Keshev, he did contact me prior to his switch and asked me a bunch of questions on how to go about RPing in Botha mode and I explained to him some of the many problems he would face - stressing that some people would view him as making a Junio move regardless if he rightly or wrongly was doing so. [/color]

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Botha' date='28 June 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1277787505' post='2353613']
[color="#000080"]LOL I hardly see the difference actually, as to me re-rolling in RP is just as much of an 'escape clause' than is simply transitioning between one mode to the other.

I should probably add that in regards to Keshev, he did contact me prior to his switch and asked me a bunch of questions on how to go about RPing in Botha mode and I explained to him some of the many problems he would face - stressing that some people would view him as making a Junio move regardless if he rightly or wrongly was doing so. [/color]
[/quote]
Ah, so he consulted you? The man did his research I see.

[Karl Martin]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='23 June 2010 - 06:14 AM' timestamp='1277295225' post='2347608']
Mudd's case was the first ever insurgency in CNRP. [/quote]

Not true at all. There was a player who kept up an "insurgency" for over three months, except all the troops were killed off in a nuclear holocaust in the most one-sided war in CNRP history, and had to keep it underground all that time. Mudd is only able to do a proper insurgency because he has a top 5 nation, plus he didn't have a bloc of nations attempting to do an eternal hunt all over the world. Come to think of it, there is a slight [i]déjà vu[/i] here.


Aside from those two, everyone else either ragequit or rerolled.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Karl Martin' date='29 June 2010 - 06:22 PM' timestamp='1277860947' post='2354634']
Not true at all. There was a player who kept up an "insurgency" for over three months, except all the troops were killed off in a nuclear holocaust in the most one-sided war in CNRP history, and had to keep it underground all that time. Mudd is only able to do a proper insurgency because he has a top 5 nation, plus he didn't have a bloc of nations attempting to do an eternal hunt all over the world. Come to think of it, there is a slight [i]déjà vu[/i] here.

Aside from those two, everyone else either ragequit or rerolled.
[/quote]
And just how did you get ahold of such detailed information of events that occured long before you came to be here?