A Joint Announcement by the Orange Defense Network and Sparta

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='03 May 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1272942367' post='2285896']
This is the military purpose of a meatshield.
[/quote]

Hello, I'm over here, I posted too but you ignored me, so I'll pick this one thing you said and wonder how effective Invicta's meat shield scale can be considered between 1-10, I'll be generous and give you guys a 7 for the damage toll but because of how much you guys whined during the war it can't be any higher.

See what I did there Haf?

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='03 May 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1272942367' post='2285896']
You really are reminding me of bigwoody. (He thought Karma was going to be evenly balanced before it happened.)[/quote] I'm flattered?


[quote]Well, if it had been just a one time thing, that'd be one thing. But then your leader comes out a year later and talks about having been involved in Karma for months while still holding full membership in Continuum... [img]http://www.maintitles.net/gfx/smileys/facepalm.gif[/img][/quote] Let's talk about that leader, let's also talk about his poorly worded attempt to make a lolemotional comment in front of the world stage. I'm sure that's a nice card to have, even though you had to twist it in order for it to fit your agenda.


[quote]You probably should really not make as many assumptions as you seem to be doing about my feelings.[/quote] You seem to think I'm talking to you, and not trying to send a message out to anyone else paying attention to this conversation. Egocentric? Yes, that's an assumption, but how accurate is it?

[quote]If I really did care about you guys, it would be because of getting pretty outrageous reps from Legion. That's why the Legion and ex-Legion posters are in here posting negatively, because they feel betrayed by what was once considered Legion's most loyal ally.[/quote] That's really irrelevant to this irrelevant argument, now, isn't it?

[quote]I don't. Sorry.[/quote] No biggie, I'll just move you to the "Hater" category and let you hold on to that mud.


[quote]This is the military purpose of a meatshield.[/quote] Is it too late to say "I saw it coming"? Probably.

Edited May 4, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[commander thrawn]

You all need to just give up this dick showing contest.

No one really cares...

either you like ODN/Sparta or you don't, this thread won't change that.

[Olaf Styke]

My, I must say Halfinger is being fairly selective about what posts he responds to and how he identifies his precious logical fallacies. He's been making them right and left, but refusing to acknowledge it... which is odd, since he's the one who brought them in to this wonderful little thread, and evidently cares so much about them. I can't wait to see what he conviniently ingores next.

WILL IT BE EVIDENCE THAT HE'S COMPLETELY WRONG, AND THAT EVERYTHING HE IS SAYING IS [EXPLETIVE DELETED]?!?

Place your bets!

Edited May 4, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Haflinger' date='03 May 2010 - 07:46 PM' timestamp='1272941193' post='2285861']
If you guys thought C&G was going to get rolled, you were really pretty dumb all along. Not that you wouldn't have company in that area. A whole lot of company.
[/quote]
So, TOP & Co. were pretty dumb all along not to see that CnG would win this war? Being on the [i]defensive[/i] side of a losing war usually gets you some sympathy. Attacking a sphere of influence that will so obviously win ... not so much the same effect.

The way things turned out, you should be more angry at our allies, also aligned with TOP/IRON/etc., that decided to fight alongside us instead. It would appear that our friends saw something in us that they didn't in their allies on the other side. That is really what turned the tables of the war.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Seth Muscarella

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='commander thrawn' date='03 May 2010 - 11:15 PM' timestamp='1272942891' post='2285916']
You all need to just give up this dick showing contest. [/quote]
There is really no contest.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='03 May 2010 - 10:30 PM' timestamp='1272940187' post='2285819']
If you wish people to take you seriously you would not act like you're above them. But I have a feeling you know this and just think it's funny to cause controversy. For someone who pretends to understand and know so much, what have you accomplished? Do you have a resume that can actually lead credence to your posts?

All I have ever seen is what can be amounted to a lump sum of personal attacks against people that I know are good, you attack them here but don't get to know who they are through other means.

How can you say purges and internal affairs mean nothing? Those members lost and the changes internally can change how an alliance operates. How it can function militarily, and also how united they are.

Sparta has shown immense respect towards people and alliances that have deserved it or have come to them with respect.

I'm curious, but do you believe that when someone does something you disagree with, that they are then wrong?
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If I act like I am better than some individuals, well, quite frankly it is because I am. And would you like a copy of my resume? I was a military leader in the NPO for nearly a year, and its head of intelligence for half. I then became a widely admired revolutionary, with quite the following of supporters, albeit passive ones at the time. I then headed NSO's foreign affairs for a few months. Other than that, I have been independent for most of my tenure on Bob, but I am widely acknowledged as being among the most accomplished out there, and someone with an uncanny knack for being proven right. Not an undeserved reputation if you ask me.

Also, internal affairs reforms and purges are only relevant if we're talking about an alliance's efficiency. We're not. Well, at least I'm not. What I am interested in is the character of Sparta. Will they come through for you when you need them, or will they turn on you to support the bigger side? So far history suggests they will do the later.

And as for them being kind and respectful. Depends on who you are. If you're the power that is, or one of them at least, count on a friend in Sparta. If you're a friend of the power, count of Sparta also being a friend. Lapdog solidarity and all. But if you are an enemy of the power, or a critic, well, you will know no fiercer wrath than that of Sparta, who is always quick to defend its master. Until of course you become the power. Then you will be amazed to see how quickly Sparta can do a 180.

As for your last question, of course I believe someone I disagree with to be in the wrong. Why else would I be disagreeing with them if I didn't know I was right?[/color]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='03 May 2010 - 10:34 PM' timestamp='1272940469' post='2285835']
That's not really making a difference. If he wants to argue about this he can come to our forums, as I have stated numerous times, and argue it there.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Why not argue it here? Unless of course there is a certain uncomfortable truth that you would prefer be kept away from the public eye.[/color]

Edited May 4, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1272943037' post='2285923']
[color="#0000FF"]If I act like I am better than some individuals, well, quite frankly it is because I am. And would you like a copy of my resume? I was a military leader in the NPO for nearly a year, and its head of intelligence for half. I then became a widely admired revolutionary, with quite the following of supporters, albeit passive ones at the time. I then headed NSO's foreign affairs for a few months. Other than that, I have been independent for most of my tenure on Bob, but I am widely acknowledged as being among the most accomplished out there, and someone with an uncanny knack for being proven right. Not an undeserved reputation if you ask me.
[/color]
[/quote]

I heard Manson had a rib removed to do it, but I must say my hat is off to you; I've never seen anyone so adept at sucking his own... ego.

[Unholy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 10:17 PM' timestamp='1272943037' post='2285923']
[color="#0000FF"]If I act like I am better than some individuals, well, quite frankly it is because I am.[/color]
[/quote]


This is precisely why nobody takes you seriously.

[lonewolfe2015]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1272943037' post='2285923']
[color="#0000FF"]If I act like I am better than some individuals, well, quite frankly it is because I am.
And as for them being kind and respectful. Depends on who you are. If you're the power that is, or one of them at least, count on a friend in Sparta. If you're a friend of the power, count of Sparta also being a friend. Lapdog solidarity and all. But if you are an enemy of the power, or a critic, well, you will know no fiercer wrath than that of Sparta, who is always quick to defend its master. Until of course you become the power. Then you will be amazed to see how quickly Sparta can do a 180.

As for your last question, of course I believe someone I disagree with to be in the wrong. Why else would I be disagreeing with them if I didn't know I was right?[/color]
[/quote]

These are the only two I can really criticize, the others were more just to understand why you act how you do.

Myself and Asgaard were never a power that be or an alliance squarely in someone's circle or even near Sparta's circle at the time. Yet, we showed them respect, they showed us respect and over the course of several months we became good friends.

We went in to help them during a war with Legion that they needed us in, and subsequently MASH went to attack us. We needed help, as an alliance our size was not about to handle MASH solely and the Legion's we were engaged with and not have problems. Sparta supported us, helped shift fighters with us, and found a solution in engaging MASH with their friends in Umbrella.

You tell me they will turn tail and not help their allies, I tell you they will defend their allies because they have character. You cling to a past I have no knowledge of nor any need to understand because the Sparta that stands before me today is one I am willing to bank on as being my friend and ally and was willing to return that respect by engaging on their behalf.

In regards to the last statement, why does someone have to be wrong if you don't agree with them? It just means you have a differing of opinion, not that one of you is 100% right and the other 100% wrong, in many situations there is a grey area or common ground, you cannot tell me that because someone disagrees with you they are instantly wrong.

If you think you a deserved reputation, why do you throw it away with these senseless posts? You are not, and never will be the all knowing factor on Bob, nor will I, or anyone else for that matter, so acting like it makes no sense beyond trying to draw attention to yourself. Would you even answer me if I asked why you like the attention?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Unholy' date='03 May 2010 - 11:23 PM' timestamp='1272943371' post='2285934']
This is precisely why nobody takes you seriously.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]If you care to take a look around you'll find that I have quite a following. Just because you don't like what I have to say doesn't mean that others feel the same way.

Also, Olaf, based on your conduct here I don't believe it is a stretch for me to say that I am the superior leader and intellectual here. Quite frankly what you and the rest of Sparta have demonstrated here tonight leaves much to be desired. Although I must say this lonewolfe fellow I can respect. At least he can make a point, and a good one, and does not have to resort to bad jokes. A shame he isn't in your alliance. To be honest, you really could use a respectable face.[/color]

[commander thrawn]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='04 May 2010 - 04:17 AM' timestamp='1272943037' post='2285923']
If I act like I am better than some individuals, well, quite frankly it is because I am. And would you like a copy of my resume?
[/quote]

Elitist disregard for others... i'm glad you feel your "accomplishments" in this world (ooc:game) make you feel special.

Edited May 4, 2010 by commander thrawn

[Unholy]

Alright, I'll make a point.

I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Sparta has strong character, and expect you to believe me. That's pretty obvious bias from me, my testimony to Sparta's character will naturally be favorable, since I am a Spartan. I will, however, tell you I have absolutely no doubt that if you talk to our allies they can attest to the strength of Sparta's character. I am almost positive all of our allies know we would not think twice about backing them up should the need arise.

But, I implore you, don't sit and extol yourself for the sake of your own ego. I honestly don't care if YOU consider yourself a better leader than Olaf. I don't think you can honestly expect me to care, either.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Unholy

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='03 May 2010 - 11:26 PM' timestamp='1272943597' post='2285943']
-snip-
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]So, you were essentially a mostly independent alliance that fought on the same side of Sparta in a war and you're surprised they acted decently to you in an effort pull you into their side? I have said Sparta is a cowardly alliance, and one without a shred of honor or dignity, but I never have said they were stupid. Furthermore, acting like jerks to everyone is bound to make them enemies, which goes against their survivalist policies. Really, nothing contradictory in anything I have said. You're just choosing to ignore the large picture.[/color]

[quote name='Unholy' date='03 May 2010 - 11:35 PM' timestamp='1272944129' post='2285960']
[color="#0000FF"]I will, however, tell you I have absolutely no doubt that if you talk to our allies they can attest to the strength of Sparta's character. I am almost positive all of our allies know we would not think twice about backing them up should the need arise.[/quote]
I do not care for your allies' opinions. Of course they will defend you. You are their dog after all. People like their dogs and will defend them if anyone gets upset with them. Furthermore, why should a few words from the hallowed Londo change my opinion on Sparta? Words mean nothing without actions behind them, and to this day Sparta has yet to prove a thing.[/color]

Edited May 4, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:17 PM' timestamp='1272943037' post='2285923'][color="#0000FF"]Why not argue it here? Unless of course there is a certain uncomfortable truth that you would prefer be kept away from the public eye.[/color]
[/quote]
It has absolutely nothing to do with the original intent of this discussion.

If you knew me at all, you'd know that I am a very approachable man. The thing is, I'm not going to even attempt to impress those dead-set on tarnishing Sparta's image without at least a little effort on their part to find the answers they seek. All I'm seeing here is a petty squabble, definitely not the right place to have a serious argument.

We aren't here to impress you, I am perfectly happy knowing you dislike us, we have allies whom we respect and whom respect us, and that's all we need. Detractors be damned.

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 08:27 PM' timestamp='1272943623' post='2285945']
Also, Olaf, based on your conduct here I don't believe it is a stretch for me to say that[b] I am the superior leader and intellectual here[/b].
[/quote]
RV, I recommend that you read more Sun Tzu. Olaf has already won this.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:38 PM' timestamp='1272944311' post='2285964']
[color="#0000FF"]I have said Sparta is a cowardly alliance.[/color][/quote]
THE FILTHY [b]COWARDS[/b]!

[quote][color="#0000FF"]Furthermore, acting like jerks to everyone is bound to make them enemies, which goes against their survivalist policies.[/color][/quote]
THE [b]AGGRESSIVENESS[/b] OF IT ALL!

[quote] [color="#0000FF"]Really, nothing contradictory in anything I have said.[/color][/quote]

Edited May 4, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Seth Muscarella' date='03 May 2010 - 11:39 PM' timestamp='1272944343' post='2285966']
RV, I recommend that you read more Sun Tzu. Olaf has already won this.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]This is not combat, and we are not at war. Olaf coming in and making silly jokes and ignoring valid criticisms of his alliance does not make those criticisms any less valid. Nor does it make the problems that are plaguing Sparta magically go away. He can put his head in the sand for as long as he wants, but ultimately he is only doing himself and Sparta harm. Pretending that everything is alright does not make it so, and saying nothing does not win you any arguments.

Willy, I never said Sparta acted aggressively to anyone. I stated that doing so would go against Sparta's nature, and explained why. I really do suggest you learn how understand the context of words. It will be remarkably handy in the future.[/color]

Edited May 4, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[lonewolfe2015]

Very well Rebel Virginia, I can see there is no argument to be had here, as you have it deadset in your mind that a perfectly good alliance is your enemy.

It is possible for the mind to conceive of a false reality in which it is centered as the main voice of reason, I believe you either are truly enjoying the role you play and do not actually support it, or you are entirely deluded in thinking that there is a grand conspiracy in everything.

Wilhelm, can I have my treaty back? You guys deceived me into thinking you were actually decent people. For shame, the dogs you are makes me realize the error in my ways! Oh wo is me.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 11:45 PM' timestamp='1272944696' post='2285980']
[color="#0000FF"]Willy, I never said Sparta acted aggressively to anyone. I stated that doing so would go against Sparta's nature, and explained why. I really do suggest you learn how understand the context of words. It will be remarkably handy in the future.[/color]
[/quote] Then you obviously don't know anything about Spartan nature.

I'm comprehending, you call us cowards, and you claim that we are being aggressive at the moment, two contradicting statements, which contradicts your follow-up "there are no contradictions" statement.

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='03 May 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1272944953' post='2285989']
Wilhelm, can I have my treaty back? You guys deceived me into thinking you were actually decent people. For shame, the dogs you are makes me realize the error in my ways! Oh wo is me.
[/quote]

Sure thing, we were going to cancel it at the first sign of trouble, anyway.

Edited May 4, 2010 by wilhelm the demented

[Unholy]

So, basically RV, what I am seeing here is that everything we present is not good enough for you. And no argument we ever present will be good enough for you, so I'm not going to bother trying to make you realize that you aren't the greatest thing that has ever graced this world.

When someone comes here with the intent to have a legitimate debate, then I'll care about what they have to say.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='03 May 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1272944971' post='2285990']
Then you obviously don't know anything about Spartan nature.

I'm comprehending, you call us cowards, and you claim that we are being aggressive at the moment, two contradicting statements, which contradicts your follow-up "there are no contradictions" statement.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I spelled it out for you and it still flies over your head? Very well, I'll give it another try before I give up all hope for you. I said you are cowards. Yes, you got that part right. Have a cookie. I did not say you were aggressive, however. Aggressive alliances make enemies, as I stated, which goes against your instincts. You do not want to make enemies. There, now do you get it?[/color]

[quote name='lonewolfe2015' date='03 May 2010 - 11:49 PM' timestamp='1272944953' post='2285989']
truly enjoying the role you play
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Yes, it is quite nice being me. I do wish I could share the excitement of being me with others, but really, why would I want to give up any of my greatness?[/color]

[Unholy]

You really can't put your ego on hold for the sake of a decent discussion can you? I mean, god forbid the great RV is wrong every once in a while! That's blasphemy.

Seriously, RV. Your arrogance and inflated view of yourself serves no purpose but to get in the way of that which you claim to seek. A decent argument.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='Unholy' date='03 May 2010 - 11:58 PM' timestamp='1272945497' post='2286003']
You really can't put your ego on hold for the sake of a decent discussion can you? I mean, god forbid the great RV is wrong every once in a while! That's blasphemy.

Seriously, RV. Your arrogance and inflated view of yourself serves no purpose but to get in the way of that which you claim to seek. A decent argument.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I never said I couldn't be wrong. I have been in the past, but very rarely. However, I know I am right on this one. I have continued to back my points with solid evidence. Evidence that Sparta has yet to refute, or even address. Tell me why I should even begin to consider the possibility that I am wrong if you consistently refuse to provide proof that I may be mistaken about you.[/color]

[Seth Muscarella]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='03 May 2010 - 08:56 PM' timestamp='1272945370' post='2286000']
I spelled it out for you and it still flies over your head? Very well, I'll give it another try before I give up all hope for you. I said you are cowards. Yes, you got that part right. Have a cookie. I did not say you were aggressive, however. Aggressive alliances make enemies, as I stated, which goes against your instincts. You do not want to make enemies. There, now do you get it?
[/quote]
Wait, so we don't want to make enemies, and it goes against our instincts, but you never offered proof that we aren't aggressive. Could you please expand on that? I'm curious to know about my own alliance from an outside view, as your experience is unchallenged.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Seth Muscarella