Sanctions as a Weapon

[lamuella]

[quote name='Schattenmann' date='21 April 2010 - 10:47 PM' timestamp='1271908044' post='2270195']
Ugh, seriously. What happens when you put someone who takes himself way too seriously with 200 people that pretend they're not taking themselves way too seriously?
[/quote]

you get Vox Populi? My numbers might be off (on both sides)

[magicmountain]

Methrage, I'm still waiting for your version of the events that lead up to the sanction. This will be the fourth time I've asked today. I'd really like to hear the story from your side.

[Sephiroth]

[quote name='magicmountain' date='22 April 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1271919266' post='2270455']
Methrage, I'm still waiting for your version of the events that lead up to the sanction. This will be the fourth time I've asked today. I'd really like to hear the story from your side.
[/quote]
I think I've explained it a few times now already, maybe after I get some sleep I'll type it out again if I can't find where I posted it.

[magicmountain]

[quote name='Methrage' date='22 April 2010 - 01:01 AM' timestamp='1271919670' post='2270466']
I think I've explained it a few times now already, maybe after I get some sleep I'll type it out again if I can't find where I posted it.
[/quote]

I've been following this discussion from the start and bits and pieces have come up but it's all so scattered and hard to follow... that's why I was making an effort to summarize over the past page or so. The thing is, I don't want to put words in your mouth so it's kind of a one sided summary right now. Anyway, no rush.

[Sephiroth]

You guys can have peace with me if you want, we can just white peace if no one sees reason to continue.

[magicmountain]

[quote name='Methrage' date='22 April 2010 - 02:00 AM' timestamp='1271923184' post='2270502']
You guys can have peace with me if you want, we can just white peace if no one sees reason to continue.
[/quote]

Oh, really? We can have peace, he says. How magnanimous. He'll just let us walk away before we get hurt. Guess we'd better start walkin'.

Frankly I'm disappointed and a bit insulted that you stayed up another hour only to ignore my question for the fifth time and respond with more of your typical posturing. It'd take all of ten minutes to describe the sequence of events that lead up to Umbrella's action against you, yet you've ignored me all day long. You are once again deliberately avoiding a reasonable discussion on the topic at hand and I assert that you avoid reasonable debate because the facts show that you are in the wrong here. Not us, no matter how many times you say it or ignore evidence to the contrary.

Edited April 22, 2010 by magicmountain

[Sephiroth]

My laptop got destroyed, so I'll respond less for now, but any incoming aid will get me out of bill lock and be put to good use.

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='BlkAK47002' date='21 April 2010 - 09:46 PM' timestamp='1271900758' post='2269997']
Well what if you both met on irc with a neutral mediator and just negotiate, there's not much to it. This isn't a major conflict, it doesn't need to go any futher.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]I am willing to serve as an impartial mediator.[/color]

[Timmmehhh]

[quote name='Methrage' date='22 April 2010 - 10:00 AM' timestamp='1271923184' post='2270502']
You guys can have peace with me if you want, we can just white peace if no one sees reason to continue.
[/quote]
You should surrender, you are getting owned by the GOONS

[nippy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='22 April 2010 - 01:02 PM' timestamp='1271934135' post='2270567']
[color="#0000FF"]I am willing to serve as an impartial mediator.[/color]
[/quote]

How you could suggest such a thing and still deny being a comedian is beyond belief.

[Haflinger]

[quote name='ktarthan' date='21 April 2010 - 10:11 PM' timestamp='1271902258' post='2270040']
How did you come to that conclusion?
[/quote]
[quote name='magicmountain' date='21 April 2010 - 09:55 PM' timestamp='1271901286' post='2270016']
I guess we could ignore him and let people believe what they will but responding is so much more fun.
[/quote]
Seriously. He gave you a CB, so you attacked him. But that wouldn't have given him something to shout about, so you sanctioned him, and now we have this thread where you guys are having fun.

[Bob Janova]

[quote name='Sardonic' date='22 April 2010 - 03:43 AM' timestamp='1271904196' post='2270083']
These are the facts:

1. CSA aids our enemies.

2. We attack CSA for 1, when diplomacy fails

3. You aid CSA

4. We attack you in the same vein as 2

Aiding enemies is an aggressive action, you should learn this.
[/quote]
You missed out point 5, which is the only one that anyone thinks is particularly wrong:

5. We sanction you even though we started the war with you

Even Methrage hasn't really been complaining about getting attacked in this thread all that much. The title of the thread is a clue: the complaint is abuse of sanctions in a war you started (with a CB, sure, but you still started it).

Now I'm just interested to see how long the GOON 'exodus' will be kept going for.

[Sardonic]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='22 April 2010 - 07:26 AM' timestamp='1271939191' post='2270610']
You missed out point 5, which is the only one that anyone thinks is particularly wrong:

5. We sanction you even though we started the war with you
[/quote]

Again you perpetuate the idea what we started this, he is the aggressor by virtue of aiding our enemies, we are merely proactively stopping him from being able to send even more aid to our enemies, and harming us further, I cannot possibly see VE standing for that kind of thing, letting people get away with aiding their enemies.

As to the sanction, it's a non-issue. Sanctions are tools, we used it to deal with a rogue and limit damage to our alliance. This is how it has been, and this is how it will be. Somebody floated the idea in government, we asked Umbrella, and they did it. There was no evil plot, no giant debate, we just asked for it and got it, there is no controversy.

Why are you defending this nincompoop?

[Rebel Virginia]

[quote name='nippy' date='22 April 2010 - 07:40 AM' timestamp='1271936383' post='2270583']
How you could suggest such a thing and still deny being a comedian is beyond belief.
[/quote]
[color="#0000FF"]Believe it or not I have a reputation as a reasonable man. You would have to be a fool to reject my offer.[/color]

Edited April 22, 2010 by Rebel Virginia

[nippy]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='22 April 2010 - 02:26 PM' timestamp='1271939191' post='2270610']
You missed out point 5, which is the only one that anyone thinks is particularly wrong:

5. We sanction you even though we started the war with you

Even Methrage hasn't really been complaining about getting attacked in this thread all that much. The title of the thread is a clue: the complaint is abuse of sanctions in a war you started (with a CB, sure, but you still started it).[/quote]

Oh, good...square one. Nothing like talking in circles, eh Bob? I can't tell you how many countless times this same argument has been used, even by yourself. Forgot the word 'CB' here. Stop using it. We didn't need one. 'The Citadel' isn't an alliance now, and it wasn't an alliance when Methrage decided to get involved with our business. A real alliance has a charter, a government, a declaration of existence, and, most importantly, more than one member. Someone switching to Methrage's AA in an attempt to escape war with us does NOT add to the member count of the fictional alliance Methrage is comically 'running'. If all one needs to do to become a member of a real alliance is to switch their AA, the word 'ghost' wouldn't even be relevant on this planet. As for 'you started it'...come on, now. Be real. Be reasonable. Let me pose this scenario for you:

-VE takes military action against another alliance
-uninvolved party enters your declaration thread and questions your actions
-VE explains their actions, provides proof as to why they're taking the actions
-uninvolved party decides your reasons aren't good enough, sends aid to members of the alliance you are fighting, and attempts to claim he's now at war with VE because VE is continuing to attack after the member switched his AA.
-uninvolved party claims he will be nuking several members of VE after his other meddling with other alliances' affairs is over. Claims he will nuke members of VE daily, and starts trying to take bets on how long it will take him to ZI a member of VE.

....what action does VE take? This rogue is going to stockpile nukes, has already claimed he's at war with your alliance, and has already demonstrated the inability to rationalize. VE has access to a green senator. The rogue is on green team. "Hmm, no...he's not officially a rogue because he didn't declare on us, so we're not going to use this valuable tool we have in our possession. We'll just eat the nukes because it will be more honorable that way". Right? That's what you guys are going to decide to do?

[nippy]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='22 April 2010 - 03:18 PM' timestamp='1271942297' post='2270631']
[color="#0000FF"]Believe it or not I have a reputation as a reasonable man. You would have to be a fool to reject my offer.[/color]
[/quote]

I believe you misinterpret your reputation, good sir. I would have to be a fool to reject your offer, however, because picturing such a scenario gives me the gigglefits.

[Bob Janova]

Nippy, I would hope that either we attack him and don't sanction, or we ignore his words and [i]if[/i] (not when) he decides to attack us, then he [i]is[/i] a nuclear rogue and justifies a sanction. It's not my decision but I would not be happy if we declared on someone (however justified that was) and then sanctioned them. Just because you're a single nation doesn't mean that you should automatically be sanctioned if you end up in a war.

[quote]Again you perpetuate the idea what we started this[/quote]
Careful choice of words there. I said you started [i]the war[/i] with Methrage.

[Stalins Barber]

Won't anyone please consider the war orphans?

[Daikos]

[quote name='Rebel Virginia' date='22 April 2010 - 09:18 AM' timestamp='1271942297' post='2270631']
[color="#0000FF"]Believe it or not I have a reputation as a reasonable man. You would have to be a fool to reject my offer.[/color]
[/quote]

This thread was starting to lack hilarity. Glad you've rectified the situation.

[Chief Savage Man]

Btw this thread made me vote for the Umbrella candidate.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Methrage' date='22 April 2010 - 03:54 AM' timestamp='1271933632' post='2270563']
My laptop got destroyed, so I'll respond less for now, but any incoming aid will get me out of bill lock and be put to good use.
[/quote]
I noticed you have zero soldiers. I have sent an aid packet to help "prime the pump" of rebuilding your defense.

If any GOONS have a problem with what I have done please let me know.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Matthew PK

[lamuella]

business just picked up...

[nippy]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='22 April 2010 - 06:04 PM' timestamp='1271952244' post='2270755']
I noticed you have zero soldiers. I have sent an aid packet to help "prime the pump" of rebuilding your defense.

If any GOONS have a problem with what I have done please let me know.
[/quote]

It would have been funnier if you told him you'd nuke us daily for the small price of 50 tech, actually.

Still, it would be pretty funny if he accepts it.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='nippy' date='22 April 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1271953493' post='2270778']
It would have been funnier if you told him you'd nuke us daily for the small price of 50 tech, actually.

Still, it would be pretty funny if he accepts it.
[/quote]


I will give Methrage my word to take his side in this thread for the low price of 50 tech.

Here is just a taste of the feast I am offering:
How dare Umbrella use their team entrusted powers to victimize Methrage. He's simply doing the dirty work that no others have the courage to do! He is an asset to the black team and he, himself, should be made the senator.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Matthew PK

[ktarthan]

[quote name='Bob Janova' date='22 April 2010 - 06:40 AM' timestamp='1271943610' post='2270649']
Careful choice of words there. I said you started [i]the war[/i] with Methrage.
[/quote]
I guess you really do like this carousel. I am almost certain I've explained our stance on this, and you repeating yours is not going to change our mind. Methrage recognized [i]the war[/i] before we took any actions against us.

Alright now I'll save you some time: "It was more of a rambling declaration of hostilities than a true declaration of war, and all the probable cause in the world will not justify your actions".

Okay, fine. We get it. But it doesn't make us agree.