magicmountain

[quote name='Valtamdraugr' timestamp='1287413905' post='2487030'] Sad to see the disbandment of FnKa. Losing a home is never a good time. Also, and this just bugs me... so I will get it off my chest. I have heard some decry the use of the mercy board. Where I hail from, the act of conferring laughter on others... is of extreme wealth. It would be an honor to be allowed to show my prowess in delivering a piece of my own creation. To me, the mercy board is is one of the more novel tools to come out in some time and I could very much see myself utilizing such a term if it were offered. Not because I have a great attachment to my nations assets, but because I think conferring laughter is a win for all involved. [/quote] I'm pretty sure that if you happened to stop by and apply for mercy for no reason nobody would turn you away

They did something about it. They dealt with it.

If it was designed to embarrass and humiliate people, don't you think the terms would be more, I don't know, embarrassing or humiliating? The whole thing is really quite silly when you look at it objectively. We ask people to write us poems or draw us pictures. It's designed to add some fun to a situation that is otherwise almost completely devoid of fun. It seems to me that the only way one could argue that the mercy board is humiliating would be if one had never even seen it.

Finally, someone with some sense.

They benefit by having fun? There are numerous instances of raid targets going through the mercy process and having so much fun with it they join us after it's over.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285392139' post='2463994'] You're [i]almost[/i] there. When a member of an alliance goes and attacks someone he shouldn't and his gov says "oh, we're very sorry, his actions aren't sanctioned" then that nation is clearly a rogue. If the gov says "in fact, thanks for bringing this to our attention, we're declaring war, too" then it's an alliance-sanctioned action, and an alliance action. For example, in the war to eradicate Norden Verein, on of NoV's allies had ONE nuclear nation, and he also happened to be that alliance head of state. He started nuking, and everyone on TPF's side started calling him a rogue and getting him sanctioned, but that's just silly, the head of state makes policy--if he's nuking, he's not a rogue. Methrage is in charge of KN, he joined the war, he's nuking, he's not a rogue. [/quote] Fair enough. In my mind one plus one still equals two, but it seems you're pretty attached to your position. If I ever get bored and decide to go out in a nuclear blaze of glory I'll make sure to switch to red and bring a friend along for the ride. [quote name='Haquertal' timestamp='1285392680' post='2464006'] The word "doubled" would be staggering if it didn't mean 2+2. (or 2x2 or 2^2 or etc) [/quote] Indeed, one could say Methrage's merry band is growing exponentially!

[quote name='Sigrun Vapneir' timestamp='1285392017' post='2463991'] Reading his posts it doesnt seem like he attacked "just for kicks" - it seems like he has a serious political disagreement. [/quote] I'm afraid I don't share your assessment, it seems to me that Methrage just likes to be in wars.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285390776' post='2463966'] Well, magicmountain, that's not how it started at all! Methrage's other member attacked you (I don't know why) and for a very small window he would have been a rogue, but of course Methrage's entry into the war made it an alliance action. [/quote] So when one person attacks an alliance just for kicks that is a rogue action, but when two people attack an alliance just for kicks, that's not a rogue action? Also, do you realize we approached the situation with the first attack diplomatically, but Methrage decided to ignore the diplomacy and attack us, again, just for kicks? Why aren't they both rogues? It's not like we attacked first and Methrage came to his friend's defense.

[quote name='Schattenmann' timestamp='1285390306' post='2463955'] If Methrage had attacked you by himself for no reason than to get some kicks, he'd be a rogue plain as day. [/quote] That is exactly how this situation started. We were dutifully ignoring Methrage when he decided to attack us to get some kicks.

[quote name='Methrage' timestamp='1285384298' post='2463864'] The red sphere happens to be the only sphere GOONS can't use the senate to benefit your wars, it also happens to be a stable sphere thanks to senators not using sanctions as a weapon here. [/quote] This is a pretty bold statement, I would love to see some evidence of the instability of every sphere but red.

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285235278' post='2462028'] I have already said that I see no point in arguing about this definition. But you are using this this definition as used in this world (which, again, is technical in nature) which has nothing to do with moral, and try to make it look morally wrong. This is where you are inconsistent, because you normally don't give a crap about moral. [/quote] Oh, is that what you meant. Well, I feel that a rogue is a rogue, there's nothing moral or immoral about it, so I guess we agree there. If you don't think there's anything wrong with someone sending money to someone who is attacking us, I'd have to disagree with you there.

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285233434' post='2462017']You are really bullies, and it's not going to change. To your defence, you have always been very honest about it. But it's our right to dislike it. [/quote] You were just chiding us to be consistent, yet you agree we're very honest and you want to change the definition of rogue depending on how you feel about the alliance being attacked?

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285228099' post='2461986'] Just be consistent and don't use moralistic arguments against these "rogues" when they attack you. [/quote] I'm sorry, I don't follow. Could you please explain how "This one guy attacked us, then this other guy sent the first guy money, therefore the second guy is also our enemy" a moralistic argument? Please use small words, I'm a little slow.

[quote name='Golan 1st' timestamp='1285226915' post='2461976'] Thing is that GOONS have pride themselves of ignoring, violating and mocking any sense of morality (sorry, the sovereign right to abuse others is not morality). It's difficult for many of us to feel sorry when this occur to them and these "rogues" are seen as heroes by many members of this community. [/quote] Yes, people that disagree with our moral position do tend to knee-jerk react and blame us without looking at the facts first, we are very familiar with this phenomenon. Thanks for noticing though

[quote name='JimKongIl' timestamp='1285197786' post='2461444'] Someone should keep some stats, I'd like to compare their value relative to 270 million after this is all over. [/quote] I daresay our Billion Dollar Rogue moniker for Methrage will become literal in a matter of hours. Edit: Oh, and to head off the obvious response, allow me to quote my GOONS brethren from earlier in this discussion. It's not about the numbers. It's about the justice.