The New Grämlins

[Crymson]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 02:44 PM' timestamp='1271105076' post='2257664']
Logically sound but morally bankrupt.
[/quote]

I think you've reached that level already.

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:33 PM' timestamp='1271104392' post='2257646']
I would love that, it would change the bargaining table quite a bit wouldn't it...
[/quote]


[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:39 PM' timestamp='1271104777' post='2257653']
Well then we're at the same impasse. We're apparently not interested in "negotiating" unless we have an ever more definite and clear strategic upper hand.

You see, you [b]can[/b] connect the dots!
[/quote]
Good to know you are finally revealing, even in small pieces, what you really intend to do here.

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1271105076' post='2257664']
Logically sound but morally bankrupt.
Now, of course, the basis of this entire thread is that your morals differ from mine so we're not going to progress on that front.
[/quote]


[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1271105156' post='2257666']
I want you to voluntarily weaken your position [b]so that you may be allowed a seat[/b] at the table.
[/quote]
Those posts are about the most revealing and funny posts I've since... well I cannot remember a series of more fun posts in my time here in CN.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='The Warrior' date='12 April 2010 - 01:49 PM' timestamp='1271105336' post='2257670']
Amiright?
[/quote]

Is IRON so meek that they would never recover? That seems to be your contention, not mine.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='shilo' date='12 April 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1271105397' post='2257672']
Good to know you are finally revealing, even in small pieces, what you really intend to do here.





Those posts are about the most revealing and funny posts I've since... well I cannot remember a series of more fun posts in my time here in CN.
[/quote]

The real humor would be if you [b]really[/b] couldn't see any strategic logic in it beforehand.
And here I was thinking our position was obvious!

[janax]

Since MHA is likely to defend RAMlins should anyone free of terms decide to intervene (or people, you know, let others out of terms....)

I couldn't in good conscience advocate the selling of tech to them either...you know...if we had any free tech sellers.
Just food for thought.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 04:36 PM' timestamp='1271104565' post='2257648']
Not to the point of stupidity but certainly to the point of strategy.
From my perspective the strategic merit of our position is obvious.
You know that too; just because everybody else wants to get hung-up on buzzwords doesn't mean you should overlook the logical aspect of the demand.
There is, in fact, method to the "madness" and you know it. You simply don't like it (which is understandable)
[/quote]
I'm not in the business of taking lessons on PR spinning which is what this statement reads like. Why attempt to distract from the real point of Ram's demands to "lay down your arms" when it's so easy to see through? To me, Ram's demands only serve the following purposes:

[list]
[*]Get IRON's top tier our of PM putting us "over a barrel" as it where
[*]Take away IRON's nuke stockpile limiting our ability to fight
[*]Feed Ram's ego
[*]Get IRON to agree to unconditional surrender allowing you to claim it must not be so bad since someone agreed to it[/list]
Now folks can claim this is all meant to "break the cycle of IRON violence toward Gramlins" which is absolute BS since you have twice declared on us; Karma which was in direct violation of the OTP clause of your Citadel treaty and now which was nothing more than an aggressive bandwagon maneuver. To claim otherwise in either case is foolish and akin to putting a dress on a pig.

Another excuse I've heard bandied about is that this is some sort of "test" for IRON. Again I can't see this as anything but another weak attempt to justify one of the most ridiculous requests in CN history. How anyone can remain allied to or friendly with Gramlins at this point is beyond me.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Mad Mike' date='11 April 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1271048128' post='2257103']
maybe if IRON or DAWN actually came to the gremlins forums and asked the questions that Lord Brendan has they would get the answers they desire. It amazes me that the only person whom even comes to our forums and ask us questions is not even involved. The embassies for IRON have not even been used in over three months on the gremlins forums, the last time anyone posted in the IRON embassy was December 26th 2009. And DAWN does not even have an embassy that i can find on the Gremlins forums. This really shows and showed a lot of initiative to incite peace in this conflict.

AS for "unconditional surrender" nobody ever said "hand me your keys," it is basically just another term for what is already been done and is being done currently. Just being called a different name and all hell breaks loose from assumptions and innuendos.

As far as gremlins graph. O-no we are loosing pixels from small to smaller more inactive nations fighting 3 vs 1 against nations that were previously over 50K NS. So of course we will be loosing pixels, but even if they all fight for the alliance to ZI, they will and would be rebuilt bigger and better than they were before and faster. The Gramlins National Bank is ready and willing to rebuild every nation that lost even one pixel for the alliance. Our coffers are limitless, unless that is Iron decides to remove people from peace mode that have been there for over 60 days and have a war chest the size of my daily income, just to try and attack our banks, but that would be suicide for them so i do not see that happening, even though they are finally doing some spying on our larger nations. I hope that means something. Even though we have all your nations intell from start of war to present.


I hope my wall of text gets communications open and people realize Gremlins are not bad people, until you get them wet, feed them after midnight, or subdue them to bright lights. How about we all go and watch a movie together?

O and how do i join the Ramerious hate group that seems to be forming, and what is your irc?
[/quote]

Mike: It's really not like you to be so clueless.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 04:50 PM' timestamp='1271105419' post='2257673']
Is IRON so meek that they would never recover? That seems to be your contention, not mine.
[/quote]
Have Grämlins open themselves up to attack by a group that outnumbers them three to one in the upper tier and has terms so bad that they require additional leverage in order to force them through and see how long it takes you to recover.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:50 PM' timestamp='1271105419' post='2257673']
Is IRON so meek that they would never recover? That seems to be your contention, not mine.
[/quote]

My contention is found in your alliance's ludicrous demands.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 03:52 PM' timestamp='1271105519' post='2257674']
The real humor would be if you [b]really[/b] couldn't see any strategic logic in it beforehand.
And here I was thinking our position was obvious!
[/quote]Who are you to be talking about strategic logic? Did you somehow skip over the hundreds of posts in this thread condemning your alliance's actions?

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot; I guess you decided to use an RPG.

[Golan 1st]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 11:46 PM' timestamp='1271105156' post='2257666']I want you to voluntarily weaken your position [b]so that you may be allowed a seat[/b] at the table.[/quote]I am afraid that you really overestimate yourself if you think that we will consider that for the pleasure of sitting with you.

[Crymson]

[quote name='SynthFG' date='12 April 2010 - 11:41 AM' timestamp='1271094091' post='2257478']
Anyway in case you have been living under a rock I resigned from Gre Gov a few days ago and am leaving the alliance
[/quote]

Holy crap! How will you function in this game without Ram telling you what and how to think?

Edited April 12, 2010 by Crymson

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='12 April 2010 - 01:53 PM' timestamp='1271105610' post='2257680']
Have Grämlins open themselves up to attack by a group that outnumbers them three to one in the upper tier and has terms so bad that they require additional leverage in order to force them through and see how long it takes you to recover.
[/quote]
All this talk of terms!
How many times does it need to be said that there are no terms on the table?

[ironchef]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 01:50 PM' timestamp='1271105419' post='2257673']
Is IRON so meek that they would never recover? That seems to be your contention, not mine.
[/quote]

Why should they have to recover? What gives you and yours the right to continue this war with IRON and DAWN in the first place? You’re out of order! You’re alliance is out of order! This whole war is out of order!
Sorry I just had to do it

[The Warrior]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 09:58 PM' timestamp='1271105870' post='2257686']
All this talk of terms!
How many times does it need to be said that there are no terms on the table?
[/quote]

There'd be no more talk of terms if the original offer wasn't given, rescinded, given again, and then rescinded a second time.

[Goldie]

Every day that this stretches out it makes me personally want to defend IRON more and more. What has the world come to.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Mad Mike' date='12 April 2010 - 01:34 AM' timestamp='1271057645' post='2257205']
forums and irc are quite different.
[/quote]

I think you're defeating your own argument here.

[Delta1212]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 04:58 PM' timestamp='1271105870' post='2257686']
All this talk of terms!
How many times does it need to be said that there are no terms on the table?
[/quote]
Either you have terms that are so heavy they need additional leverage to get them accepted, or you have terms so light they would be accepted in the current situation. If it is the latter case, then additional bargaining power is entirely unnecessary strategically and you are making a lot of people on the other side hate you enough that I doubt you'd get out of a losing war without being crippled now while simultaneously burning a lot of goodwill with the people that you will need to defend you and [i]which are now only obligated to defend you on the basis of friendship per your own choice[/i] for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

So, your argument that it is strategically sound flies out the window completely if you are planning to offer terms that would be acceptable under the current circumstances. You need a better argument if you want this demand to be taken seriously than "It's good strategy." It isn't. It's beyond idiotic from any standpoint that doesn't look at strategy one-dimensionally.

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='The Warrior' date='12 April 2010 - 02:00 PM' timestamp='1271105985' post='2257691']
There'd be no more talk of terms if the original offer wasn't given, rescinded, given again, and then rescinded a second time.
[/quote]
There is no horse here, it's nothing but a dark stained spot in uncharacteristically loose soil.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='12 April 2010 - 11:05 AM' timestamp='1271091932' post='2257442']
We ignore the policies we do have whenever it's convenient anyways. So why even write them down? That would just be a waste of time.
[/quote]

[quote name='Titus Pullo' date='12 April 2010 - 11:03 AM' timestamp='1271091780' post='2257439']
I'm sorry, IRC is not an acceptable form of communication. Should you have any inquiries about membership, the organization itself, or our policies, you'll need to come visit our forums.
[/quote]

[quote]
I know right, who uses passwords anymore?
[/quote]

Well-played!

[Zangmonkey]

[quote name='Delta1212' date='12 April 2010 - 02:02 PM' timestamp='1271106140' post='2257698']
Either you have terms that are so heavy they need additional leverage to get them accepted, or you have terms so light they would be accepted in the current situation. If it is the latter case, then additional bargaining power is entirely unnecessary strategically and you are making a lot of people on the other side hate you enough that I doubt you'd get out of a losing war without being crippled now while simultaneously burning a lot of goodwill with the people that you will need to defend you and [i]which are now only obligated to defend you on the basis of friendship per your own choice[/i] for absolutely no reason whatsoever.

So, your argument that it is strategically sound flies out the window completely if you are planning to offer terms that would be acceptable under the current circumstances. You need a better argument if you want this demand to be taken seriously than "It's good strategy." It isn't. It's beyond idiotic from any standpoint that doesn't look at strategy one-dimensionally.
[/quote]

And is it your contention that we would miraculously and instantly regain goodwill by saying "nvm, glhf thx dudez!" ?
I'm going to assume it's not; so you can stop wasting your keyboard ink trying outline how deep a hole you think we've dug.

[Matt Miller]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 05:03 PM' timestamp='1271106165' post='2257699']
There is no horse here, it's nothing but a dark stained spot in uncharacteristically loose soil.
[/quote]

That actually happened, Matthew.

[Crymson]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 02:13 PM' timestamp='1271103180' post='2257615']
Perhaps, then, you should check your assumptions at the door.
[/quote]

Perhaps, then, somebody from your government should show up to refute the allegation---supported by overwhelming evidence as it is... logs from your own government included!---that the Gramlins are indeed asking for what people are claiming the Gramlins are asking for!

Edit: For clarification, this is a joke; your government has made what they're asking for so obvious that your accusation that people are 'making assumptions' is comical in the extreme.

Edited April 12, 2010 by Crymson

[shilo]

[quote name='Matthew PK' date='12 April 2010 - 10:46 PM' timestamp='1271105156' post='2257666']
I want you to voluntarily weaken your position [b]so that you may be allowed a seat[/b] at the table.
[/quote]
I just have to say this:
You currently are voluntarily weakening your position, you yourself, and everyone of your alliance mates getting fed false sentences from ram to be blurred out here.
Please continue doing so, I promise, in good time, we will allow you a seat at our table.

[The Warrior]

[quote name='shilo' date='12 April 2010 - 10:10 PM' timestamp='1271106612' post='2257713']
I just have to say this:
You currently are voluntarily weakening your position, you yourself, and everyone of your alliance mates getting fed false sentences from ram to be blurred out here.
[b]Please continue doing so, I promise, in good time, we will allow you a seat at our table.[/b]
[/quote]

No unconditional surrender required.