Karma for Sparta

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='28 February 2010 - 10:43 PM' timestamp='1267429643' post='2209724']
Familiar with the concept of asking questions?

You don't build your case on: We asked them to prove us wrong, and they didn't. Just sayin'


Yeah, sure thing, whatever makes you happy enough to leave this discussion.
[/quote]

I'm sure you would like that, regardless, I will comply.

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 02:46 AM' timestamp='1267429803' post='2209732']
I didn't build my case on that; I built it on: I have my opinion [a negative one, from your perspective], and if you want to change it [not saying you do - though I would if I were you], then you must disprove it.

Just sayin'
[/quote]
Okay. So you have stated that it's your opinion and not fact.

Anyone who isn't actively seeking to form/adapt their own opinion based on all the facts isn't worth the effort.

Moving on.

I will gladly answer questions for those of you who actually want to learn.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Aurion' date='28 February 2010 - 10:41 PM' timestamp='1267429513' post='2209722']
Typically, the ones doing the accusing.

'Course, IC Bob's pretty much Bizarro World. So whatever.



I'm sure
[/quote]

I said I would comply, but after reading this...really, Sparta on average has had a WC worth nil. I damn near bill locked a nation with 4 times my infra, and convinced him to peace me out to save his pixels. I had two days of war with him one on one, he turtled with the advantage. You want me to go on? I have several stories that have had a similar experience against your nations. Gimme a break. You suck at WC, and you suck at war. /rant

If it needs to be proven, look at your stats. Cause when you bandwagon as you did and get hurt, you generally are not performing.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 02:51 AM' timestamp='1267430100' post='2209734']
Okay. So you have stated that it's your opinion and not fact.

Anyone who isn't actively seeking to form/adapt their own opinion based on all the facts isn't worth the effort.

Moving on.

I will gladly answer questions for those of you who actually want to learn.
[/quote]If you actually read my above posts, you would see that I based my opinion on the facts; the fact is (no pun intended) that those are no longer changing. What you have done is what you have done, thus there is no way to 'adapt' my opinion unless I ignore some of the aforementioned facts.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='01 March 2010 - 02:53 AM' timestamp='1267430249' post='2209735']
I said I would comply, but after reading this...really, Sparta on average has had a WC worth nil. I damn near bill locked a nation with 4 times my infra, and convinced him to peace me out to save his pixels. I had two days of war with him one on one, he turtled with the advantage. You want me to go on? I have several stories that have had a similar experience against your nations. Gimme a break. You suck at WC, and you suck at war. /rant

If it needs to be proven, look at your stats. Cause when you bandwagon as you did and get hurt, you generally are not performing.
[/quote]

WOW! If conjecture counted for anything, you'd have PROVEN that we suck based on a single account from an incredibly biased source, a statistical sample that isn't worth jack !@#$!

You've opened my eyes.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='28 February 2010 - 10:55 PM' timestamp='1267430359' post='2209738']
WOW! If conjecture counted for anything, you'd have PROVEN that we suck based on a single account from an incredibly biased source, a statistical sample that isn't worth jack !@#$!

You've opened my eyes.
[/quote]

Problem is...it isn't singular . But continue.

[quote]I have several stories that have had a similar experience against your nations. Gimme a break. You suck at WC, and you suck at war. /rant[/quote]

Edited March 1, 2010 by Chalaskan

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='01 March 2010 - 02:57 AM' timestamp='1267430480' post='2209739']
Problem is...it isn't singular . But continue.
[/quote]

Ok.

...AND you made a baseless generalization and then attempted to use it to back up the aforementioned biased and unconfirmed account!

You've opened my eyes... AGAIN!

Edit: Your experiences = one account.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Wilhelm the Demented]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 02:54 AM' timestamp='1267430294' post='2209736']
If you actually read my above posts, you would see that I based my opinion on the facts; the fact is (no pun intended) that those are no longer changing. What you have done is what you have done, thus there is no way to 'adapt' my opinion unless I ignore some of the aforementioned facts.
[/quote]
Based on fact or not, it's your opinion.

You aren't making any moves to learn any more information, or gain any new perspective, so you must be content sticking to your current opinion.

I'm fine with that.

I'll start giving information and perspective out when it's requested by someone who cares about the situation and not the semantics.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='wilhelm the demented' date='01 March 2010 - 03:00 AM' timestamp='1267430619' post='2209741']I'll start giving information and perspective out when it's requested by someone who cares about the situation and not the semantics.
[/quote]I'm glad you care so much about your alliance's reputation.

[Chalaskan]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='28 February 2010 - 10:59 PM' timestamp='1267430605' post='2209740']
Ok.

...AND you made a baseless generalization and then attempted to use it to back up the aforementioned biased and unconfirmed account!

You've opened my eyes... AGAIN!

Edit: Your experiences in this war = one account.
[/quote]


I have stated on several occasions, that it is not a SINGULAR experience. More so, this thread adds to that.

Your alliance bandwagoned and lost strength. I will say no more. I'm glad you think you are good at it, cause next time we will do the same, and if you are on the losing side, I will laugh. You were lucky to be on the winning side, cause if you were facing the odds we are, you would already have disassembled.

EDIT:

Checkmate

Edited March 1, 2010 by Chalaskan

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 03:08 AM' timestamp='1267431105' post='2209743']
I'm glad you care so much about your alliance's reputation.
[/quote]

I'm glad you care so much about objective truth.

[quote name='Chalaskan' date='01 March 2010 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1267431204' post='2209744']
Your alliance bandwagoned and lost strength. I will say no more. I'm glad you think you are good at it, cause next time we will do the same, and if you are on the losing side, I will laugh. You were lucky to be on the winning side, cause if you were facing the odds we are, you would already have disassembled.
[/quote]

Yes, please, say no more. In fact, never speak again. I think we would all appreciate that.

Edit: Double Checkmate. See? I can make stupid chess references too!

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:09 AM' timestamp='1267431207' post='2209745']
I'm glad you care so much about objective truth.
[/quote]I'm not sure how much more objective one can get than basing their opinion off of the facts.


In fact, did you know that I'm so biased, and hate Sparta SO much that I'm having a nice friendly conversation right now with one of your members right now?

I know, my behavior is just disgusting.

Edited March 1, 2010 by F15pilotX

[wolfbain]

Chalaskan;

You contend that Sparta's military should be judged by the select few nations with which you have engaged in war and found them lacking against your own preparations/abilities.

While I cannot confirm/deny the nature or results of your conflicts;

I will contend that to judge 429 nations abilities to fight at there respective levels by a small sampling of nations at a set NS is inadequite at best.

my first wars where in this conflict, I found the nations from 'The Legion' with which I was engaged in fought well, but lacked the means to win: to use your logic then I must believe the 'The Legion' as a whole must be equally unprepared for war.(to note i do not believe such, i just believe i was more prepared for the conflict then where my opponents)

Plz offer a more substansive sampling before judging so many with so few.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 03:11 AM' timestamp='1267431303' post='2209746']
I'm not sure how much more objective one can get than basing their opinion off of the facts.


In fact, did you know that I'm so biased, and hate Sparta SO much that I'm having a nice friendly conversation right now with one of your members right now?

I know, my behavior is just disgusting.
[/quote]

Is this where I point out that it is, and that you're not having a friendly conversation?

Because missing that was HUGE, dude.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Yggdrazil]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 02:09 AM' timestamp='1267431207' post='2209745']
Edit: Double Checkmate. See? I can make stupid chess references too!
[/quote]
There is no such thing as double checkmate.Once a check is done there is no legal move other than get your King out of check.If you cannot it is checkmate.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='Yggdrazil' date='01 March 2010 - 03:44 AM' timestamp='1267433287' post='2209764']
There is no such thing as double checkmate.Once a check is done there is no legal move other than get your King out of check.If you cannot it is checkmate.
[/quote]

Not if you're playing two games at once.

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:21 AM' timestamp='1267431876' post='2209748']
Is this where I point out that it is, and that you're not having a friendly conversation?

Because missing that was HUGE, dude.
[/quote]Do tell, how is me arguing without ONCE personally attacking any of the people I have debated in this entire conversation [i]disgusting[/i]? I have made it a point to keep my posts quite civil; just because I differ in opinion is no reason for you to label my behavior as such.

I can appreciate you disagreeing with me, and have no personal problem with you from that or anything else your alliance, but your claim against me is beyond ridiculous.


Oh, and I was not referring to anyone here. I was referring to a private conversation elsewhere; sorry for the confusion.

Edited March 1, 2010 by F15pilotX

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 03:49 AM' timestamp='1267433557' post='2209767']
Do tell, how is me arguing without ONCE personally attacking any of the people I have debated in this entire conversation [i]disgusting[/i]? I have made it a point to keep my posts quite civil; just because I differ in opinion is no reason for you to label my behavior as such.

I can appreciate you disagreeing with me, and have no personal problem with you from that or anything else your alliance, but your claim against me is beyond ridiculous.


Oh, and I was not referring to anyone here. I was referring to a private conversation elsewhere; sorry for the confusion.
[/quote]

Yes, because attacking them as a group is so much more commendable than attacking an individual.

I believe that's what we call "racism". :|

Edit: truth be told I have nothing against you, but I do have something against what you stand for: it conflicts with what I stand for.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[shahenshah]

is it true that Sparta started hitting anyone from their ranks who surrendered? If its not true, you're welcome, we just put an end to this rumour.

Edited March 1, 2010 by shahenshah

[Olaf Styke]

*snip*

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[shahenshah]

Oh I just had edited my initial post, Thanks for the answer. Also, are you guys finally rid of the ghosts or they still plague your ranks?

[F15pilotX]

[quote name='Olaf Styke' date='01 March 2010 - 03:53 AM' timestamp='1267433799' post='2209771']
Yes, because attacking them as a group is so much more commendable than attacking an individual.

I believe that's what we call "racism". :|

Edit: truth be told I have nothing against you, but I do have something against what you stand for: it conflicts with what I stand for.
[/quote]If you go back and read my posts, you would see that I have not once attacked Sparta as an alliance; rather, I have attacked your behavior and actions.

[quote name='Dictionary'][b]Racism[/b]: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. [/quote]
Racism has absolutely nothing to do with this; that comment is ignorant, and given your intelligence, you should have known not to include that in your post.


Well, I haven't exactly stated what I stand for in this topic, but I get your point.


It's time for bed here, so I'm out for the night. It was fun.

[Olaf Styke]

[quote name='shahenshah' date='01 March 2010 - 04:06 AM' timestamp='1267434577' post='2209776']
Oh I just had edited my initial post, Thanks for the answer. Also, are you guys finally rid of the ghosts or they still plague your ranks?
[/quote]
I'm sorry, actually I should clarify something here; we have no policy of attacking those in our ranks who surrender, but during this war two exceptions were made on nations who consistently refused to uphold their oaths to defend Sparta. Needless to say nations who reap all the economic and social benefits of being a Spartan without contributing to it's defense or economy are not welcome in our alliance. I was just reminded about the exceptions by Lyc, my bad on that one.

As for the ghosts, there was a mass purge of 'helots'/ghosts by the Krypteia a few months back, and our ghostbusters are incredibly effective at what they do, so Sparta has very little problem with ghosting (or at least, the nations who do ghost are quickly caught).

[quote name='F15pilotX' date='01 March 2010 - 04:14 AM' timestamp='1267435069' post='2209780']
If you go back and read my posts, you would see that I have not once attacked Sparta as an alliance; rather, I have attacked your behavior and actions.


Racism has absolutely nothing to do with this; that comment is ignorant, and given your intelligence, you should have known not to include that in your post.


Well, I haven't exactly stated what I stand for in this topic, but I get your point.


It's time for bed here, so I'm out for the night. It was fun.
[/quote]
I disagree entirely, but I won't start in with another round of arguments if you're going to bed.

No hard feelins bro, have a good night. We do it again some time, eh?

Edited March 1, 2010 by Olaf Styke

[Hymenbreach]

I set up a Legion Protection Squad (or something, I forget the real title) so I can see what Sparta is doing. They've organized some posters to come in to fight back. So, praise to Sparta for organizing that.

However, when you are countering propaganda you have to lay out facts and figures proving your point and eventually public opinion will go your way (as it was starting to do for Legion to such a point that even Van Hoo muttered something vaguely, possibly favourable at the end of Karma - of course, Legion's PR has been a bit more rocky since then).

Coming on with "Yahoo! You're talking rubbish. WAAAAH" posts does nothing to counter the mounting and multipolar anti-Sparta feeling that (with a little justification)abounds in CN. And someone should probably have a word with Olaf. He's definitely not helping.



Edit: remembered name.

Edited March 1, 2010 by Hymenbreach

[Prime minister Johns]

Sparta should be thankful that they are getting frank and honest feedback that gives them a chance to avoid the dire consequences that have been described in this thread [i]before [/i]it happens.

If I really did not like you guys I would keep my mouth shut until [i]after [/i]it happened.

But I do not want to see it happen so I am giving you the heads up to do something while something can still be done.