Open Air or Smokey Rooms

[ty345]

ES, please stop making me sig you. That's like 3 in 2 weeks...

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Arcturus Jefferson' date='19 February 2010 - 04:01 AM' timestamp='1266516103' post='2189891']
Could you specify which alliances these are and maybe some of their governments' statements that they were for transparency and now they no longer are? Karma wasn't and isn't a treaty bloc of likeminded alliances, just so you know.
[/quote]
Karma was the textbook definition of a smoke filled backroom bloc. It mustered in secret and planned its attack (and trap?) in secret. Its existence was so secret that nobody but the alliance leaders of karma and their most trusted lieutenants knew that the karma war was coming and many members of their alliances did not even know of the existence of karma until the war had begun.

And it was a bloc at the time it existed because it fulfilled all the requirements to be considered as such;

It was a group of alliances working towards a common stated goal, namely the destruction of the hegemony and the permanent crippling of the hegemony alliances.

Karma was the quintessential back room deal/bloc.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Prime minister Johns

[Monster]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='21 February 2010 - 02:11 AM' timestamp='1266747081' post='2194884']
Karma was the textbook definition of a smoke filled backroom bloc. It mustered in secret and planned its attack (and trap?) in secret. Its existence was so secret that nobody but the alliance leaders of karma and their most trusted lieutenants knew that the karma war was coming and many members of their alliances did not even know of the existence of karma until the war had begun.

And it was a bloc at the time it existed because it fulfilled all the requirements to be considered as such;

It was a group of alliances working towards a common stated goal, namely the destruction of the hegemony and the permanent crippling of the hegemony alliances.

Karma was the quintessential back room deal/bloc.
[/quote]

This isn't true. Karma did not exist prior to the actual war. It was pretty clear where the bulk of the alliances involved were going to go in terms of sides, but that was known to everyone who was paying attention to the OWF. There was no secret pre-made bloc or anything of the like. I can say this as I was one of the first people involved with Karma.

[Prime minister Johns]

[quote name='Antoine Roquentin' date='21 February 2010 - 10:00 PM' timestamp='1266753645' post='2194924']
This isn't true. Karma did not exist prior to the actual war. It was pretty clear where the bulk of the alliances involved were going to go in terms of sides, but that was known to everyone who was paying attention to the OWF. There was no secret pre-made bloc or anything of the like. I can say this as I was one of the first people involved with Karma.
[/quote]

I find it laughably unlikely that a coalition as well organized as karma sprung into existance overnight, these things just don't happen. In all likelihood there was at least several weeks of planning prior to the war to organize such things as target lists and cross alliance war aid arrangements and other such minutia that a bloc needs in order to be successful in a war. But you were probably not invited to these back room meetings.

I know my point of view goes against the karma sanctioned official history, but it is the only plausible explanation that can account for the great success of karma.

[Penkala]

[quote name='Peggy_Sue' date='17 February 2010 - 04:30 PM' timestamp='1266442203' post='2187987']
This is a text-based interactive world; how are people going to know what goes on if it is all hidden.
[/quote]

Get to know people?

A good mix of both. A few things out in the open, a few things in the back channels.

[quote]why should a select few hold all the cards over the entire planet?[/quote]

It's not really a 'select few'; there are quite a few people involved in the 'back channels' stuff at varying levels.

Edited February 21, 2010 by Penkala

[Sir Keshav IV]

Option 3: Really Do Not Care.

[Auctor]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='21 February 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1266764240' post='2195022']
I find it laughably unlikely that a coalition as well organized as karma sprung into existance overnight, these things just don't happen. In all likelihood there was at least several weeks of planning prior to the war to organize such things as target lists and cross alliance war aid arrangements and other such minutia that a bloc needs in order to be successful in a war. But you were probably not invited to these back room meetings.

I know my point of view goes against the karma sanctioned official history, but it is the only plausible explanation that can account for the great success of karma.
[/quote]

Calling Karma "well organized" kind of shows you don't know what you're talking about.....

[theArrowheadian]

If the people cannot see what their governments are doing then the governments have free reign and no one to put them into check. Most governments get away with what they do because most of the members are too lazy to do the simplistic work of their governments so the people take their word on it.

[Lord Brendan]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='21 February 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1266764240' post='2195022']
I find it laughably unlikely that a coalition as well organized as karma sprung into existance overnight, these things just don't happen. In all likelihood there was at least several weeks of planning prior to the war to organize such things as target lists and cross alliance war aid arrangements and other such minutia that a bloc needs in order to be successful in a war. But you were probably not invited to these back room meetings.

I know my point of view goes against the karma sanctioned official history, but it is the only plausible explanation that can account for the great success of karma.
[/quote]

Karma wasn't very organized at all. We won because Hegemony was even less organized than we were (and of course because we had more guns).

[Bob Janova]

PMJ, you're wrong. Karma was not planned in advance. No messing about with IC politics and whatever, just straight up, it was reactive, and the first vague meeting was a week or two in advance, which then went dead when VE didn't get attacked after it cancelled all its treaties. Karma was semi-planned for 3 days before the OV logs started to come out, after TPF and Valhalla dropped to PM and we got an incorrect rumour about PC being rolled.

[Arcturus Jefferson]

[quote name='Prime minister Johns' date='21 February 2010 - 05:11 AM' timestamp='1266747081' post='2194884']
Karma was the textbook definition of a smoke filled backroom bloc. It mustered in secret and planned its attack (and trap?) in secret. Its existence was so secret that nobody but the alliance leaders of karma and their most trusted lieutenants knew that the karma war was coming and many members of their alliances did not even know of the existence of karma until the war had begun.

And it was a bloc at the time it existed because it fulfilled all the requirements to be considered as such;

It was a group of alliances working towards a common stated goal, namely the destruction of the hegemony and the permanent crippling of the hegemony alliances.

Karma was the quintessential back room deal/bloc.
[/quote]
Ignoring you being wrong about the organized-way-in-advanced bit, a backroom deal is not equivalent to a bloc, and a coalition is not equivalent to a bloc. How many blocs do you know are formed without a treaty for one brief fight that breaks down in the peace negotiations for the victorious "bloc"?

[magicninja]

Ronin, OSA, Genesis, and ourselves have burned down 4 war rooms because we keep having Roman Candle fights. So I guess ours is a smokey back room. I think it should be kept private. Can't have roman candle wars breaking out in the streets.

[Ch33kY]

I say take it to private channels. If that doesn't succeed bring it to the OWF and let the CN public be the judge. Most of the time it's just crap that gets posted, but every now and then there is something that the CN public really should see and voice their opinion on.

As long as you don't log dump. Only really sad little people actually read all the logs.