WAPA DOW

[Woref]

[quote name='gantanX' date='01 February 2010 - 09:25 AM' timestamp='1265034357' post='2150396']
Today, 1st of February 2010, once again, Nusantara Elite Warriors March to battlefield..
We hereby Activate our MDoAP with FEAR and Recognise a state of War with Athens and [b]Immortal[/b]...
[/quote]

[quote name='PIAT with The Immortals."TAIP"']
III. Aggression
A. No acts of aggression between The Immortals and We Are Perth Army shall exist for the duration spanning the ratification of this document. Acts of aggression within this treaty are defined as:
A Declaration of War against the other signing entity;
[b]Monetary or military aiding of a known enemy of the other signing entity;[/b]
Spy infiltrations of individual nations or alliances as a whole;
Threatening/Hostile statements exchanged on boards, IRC, or ingame PM;
B. [b]In the event of a large-scale conflict occurring between one of the undersigned alliances and a third party alliance already holding a treaty to the other undersigned alliance of this treaty, the undersigned alliances shall remain neutral for the duration of the war, thus refraining from violating the terms outlined in (Article III A).[/b] This clause shall not be in effect should one of the alliances be obligated by treaty to attack the other.[/quote]

We were obligated to not support NEW due to our treaty with Immortal.

[Sulmar]

[quote name='prince buster' date='05 February 2010 - 02:37 PM' timestamp='1265398666' post='2161892']
Upon hearing that WAPA's allies, The German Empire, had been attacked by The Foreign Division, the decision was made by the highest echelons of WAPA command that the alliance should now enter the conflict known as the Karma War. At 2PM server time - 8pm GMT - WAPA launched attacks on TFD.
A couple of days later, TFD surrendered to WAPA, a terrific result, as TFD were the first alliance to surrender in the Karma War

I should know, as a member of WAPA's Firm, i accepted the surrender.
[/quote]
I just wanted to applaud your use of logic here. Obviously, the fact that WAPA attacked TFD was what pushed them to surrender.

[FreddieMercury]

[quote name='Woref' date='05 February 2010 - 08:58 PM' timestamp='1265403488' post='2162033']
We were obligated to not support NEW due to our treaty with Immortal.
[/quote]

Did you just try to e-lawyer your way out with a PIAT? Wow, what has the world come to.

But let's entertain this notion for a moment. If you interpret "[color=#1C2837][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][b]shall remain neutral for the duration of the war" [/b]as being neutral for any even remotely related wars, then you just stay neutral, not activate an oA with 1TF. If you interpret that as being neutral for any direct conflicts between two treaty partners, then you should have declared on Athens in defense of WAPA.[/font][/color]

[Woref]

[quote name='FreddieMercury' date='05 February 2010 - 04:12 PM' timestamp='1265404363' post='2162059']
Did you just try to e-lawyer your way out with a PIAT? Wow, what has the world come to.

But let's entertain this notion for a moment. If you interpret "[color=#1C2837][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][b]shall remain neutral for the duration of the war" [/b]as being neutral for any even remotely related wars, then you just stay neutral, not activate an oA with 1TF. If you interpret that as being neutral for any direct conflicts between two treaty partners, then you should have declared on Athens in defense of WAPA.[/font][/color]
[/quote]

You miss the most obvious interpretation of that clause; the one in which we keep out of wars directly involving either New or Immortal. Also, I like how you criticize me for "e-lawyering" then do the exact same thing...

[Mayzie]

FreddieMercury, perhaps you should go back and not just read Page 7. I'm not saying you're going to be totally satisfied with the relevant responses, especially since you're on the opposing side of this conflict but there are several reasons, including WAPA's disagreement with the actions of TOP & IRON, forcing them to issue a statement similar to NEW's policy last war, before any of their allies got involved. Obviously what's good enough for one isn't good enough for the other, depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on of course.

[Hassman]

[quote name='FreddieMercury' date='05 February 2010 - 08:55 PM' timestamp='1265403316' post='2162030']
Wow, WAPA. And I was beginning to really like you guys. This is just disappointing.

[color=#1C2837][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]
[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#1C2837][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]
[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#1C2837][font=arial, verdana, tahoma, sans-serif][size=2]I sympathize with your position having to choose between a friend and politics, but it was you who placed yourself in this situation by signing a treaty with someone not within your treaty web. You signed it out of genuine friendship, but now you're wiggling out of that friendship over politics.[/size][/font][/color]
[/quote]

That's inaccurate. We have been great friends with 1TF and the majority of AZTEC for years. It was a tough decision for WAPA it was heavily discussed and the result was this. Don't think we took this lightly. Their were opinions left to right and i think the council was confused in general who to go for there was alot of mixed views that's why a few days ago NEW had mixed responses from us.

[K1L1O]

[quote name='Woref' date='06 February 2010 - 03:58 AM' timestamp='1265403488' post='2162033']
We were obligated to not support NEW due to our treaty with Immortal.
[/quote]


Ah, so the main reason you wouldn't help us is Ragnarok right? You must say it from the beginning
And for the cancellation, even i'm not in gov anymore, i will ask my gov to cancel it. I'm sure other warriors will agree with me

Goodbye WAPA

[Mayzie]

I'm not sure what Ragnarok has to do with anything.

As far as I'm aware, WAPA and NEW gov have spoken in private, perhaps speak to your gov, like you say you're going to instead of keep coming in here, saying the same thing over and over again.

[The AUT]

[quote name='Mayzie' date='05 February 2010 - 10:44 PM' timestamp='1265409853' post='2162196']
I'm not sure what Ragnarok has to do with anything.

As far as I'm aware, WAPA and NEW gov have spoken in private, perhaps speak to your gov, like you say you're going to instead of keep coming in here, saying the same thing over and over again.
[/quote]

I'm pretty sure NEW is canceling the paper Mayzie, having spoken with some of them. It's a safe bet.

[Karl I]

o/ WAPA

[Mayzie]

That's not what I'm being told, but if it is, Goodbye NEW? He said it two or three times, so I suppose it's only fair someone says it back.

In all fairness, this war has been extremely difficult on many of us and caused a lot of alliances to make the toughest of decisions. I hope NEW take everything into consideration when making / when they made a decision here. This war really is a cluster$%&@ in every sense of the word.

[SaintScott]

[quote name='The AUT' date='05 February 2010 - 05:06 PM' timestamp='1265411215' post='2162238']
I'm pretty sure NEW is canceling the paper Mayzie, having spoken with some of them. It's a safe bet.
[/quote]

Never chatted with you before bud..........but you seem really interested in WAPA for some bizarre reason. Come over to the forum for a chat. Save you havin to access this thread Be delighted to see ya there for sure.

[yoyoabc]

[quote name='Naomh Fionnbharr' date='06 February 2010 - 01:54 AM' timestamp='1265392481' post='2161677']
We did not break our treaty with NEW. If we had, NEW would posted on our forums that they are cancelling the treaty. If we had felt we were breaking the treaty we would have cancelled it.

I suggest you give up, your firing a gun with no bullets and are making yourself out to be complete fool.
[/quote]
I am sorry but i think i have read enough. on behalf of more than a bunch of NEW who is not diplomatically correct, i urge you to DOW on us. we are more than happy to save up A LOT OF nukes for your bunch of nations who we taught how to save WARCHEST than any other AAs like Athens, etc. At least they fight a fair war.
so please DOW us

[yoyoabc]

[quote name='merdesa' date='06 February 2010 - 03:53 AM' timestamp='1265399632' post='2161924']
I did in fact read it at the link that was provided (I would say you should have posted them on OWF, who cares about trolls?) my first sentence was to restate what I read to make sure I had it correct. You consulted NEW and said "look, this is what we think, this is our stance, so we can't aid you." Correct?



But then you didn't consult them to say "hey guys, we're gonna be going into the war on the other side"? They're treatied to you, and you have a defense pact, I would think at least would be to consult them --you may not get their blessings, but you wouldn't come off as hiding something or "backstabbing".

I would think consulting them would have been the best option, but of course I can see the dilemma where NEW could have then tipped off NATO or whoever... and why shouldn't they?
[/quote]

Brother, save your breath, they won't understand.
let's have our own fun and hopefully we'll get to meet them in this war.
Back @ WAPA. please pretty please DOW us.

[Sephiroth]

Have fun blowing stuff up.

o/ NATO

[yoyoabc]

[quote name='Hassman' date='06 February 2010 - 05:36 AM' timestamp='1265405766' post='2162100']
That's inaccurate. We have been great friends with 1TF and the majority of AZTEC for years. It was a tough decision for WAPA it was heavily discussed and the result was this. Don't think we took this lightly. Their were opinions left to right and i think the council was confused in general who to go for there was alot of mixed views that's why a few days ago NEW had mixed responses from us.
[/quote]

I beg to differ, HASSMAN. As much as I liked you, this is statement is wrong.
A few days back your people were still asking us, "when shall we jump into the war, who shall we DOW, etc"

for old time sake, do you still want to have NS race?
I bet you can win us both hands down this time.. Oh wait a minute, you still owed us money from the previous race. I thought you guys were going to send aid?
Oh sorry, i forgot, promises mean nothing to you guys. please ignore me.


edit:
[quote name='Mayzie' date='06 February 2010 - 06:44 AM' timestamp='1265409853' post='2162196']
I'm not sure what Ragnarok has to do with anything.

As far as I'm aware, WAPA and NEW gov have spoken in private, perhaps speak to your gov, like you say you're going to instead of keep coming in here, saying the same thing over and over again.
[/quote]

I am part of GOV. nope, they didnt tell us their stand. stop trying

Edited February 6, 2010 by yoyoabc

[Auctor]

[quote name='yoyoabc' date='05 February 2010 - 08:15 PM' timestamp='1265418909' post='2162460']
I am part of GOV. nope, they didnt tell us their stand. stop trying
[/quote]

It was posted in a public part of their forum for days now dude.

[Roadie]

It is readily appearant by the 'list of friends' contained within the public forum post linked to earlier in this thread, that WAPA does not differentiate between 'friends' and Mutual Defense treaty partners. This could lead to no other logical conclusion other than it's pointless to sign a treaty with WAPA. All an alliance needs for their backing is to be 'friends' and on the same side of the war that WAPA feels is the 'right' side by whatever arbitrary mechanism they used to decide it.

[Roadie]

[quote name='Auctor' date='05 February 2010 - 07:19 PM' timestamp='1265419189' post='2162467']
It was posted in a public part of their forum for days now dude.
[/quote]

And how exactly does that = WAPA speaking to NEW gov?

Are WAPAs treaty partners expected to check in at WAPAs forums every few days to see whether or not WAPA will back their treaty partners?

[yoyoabc]

[quote name='Auctor' date='06 February 2010 - 09:19 AM' timestamp='1265419189' post='2162467']
It was posted in a public part of their forum for days now dude.
[/quote]

posted in public forum and notifying the gov is 2 separate thing. when i go on vacation, i personally tell my gov i will be out, not just posting in public forum hoping my gov will read.
Is that how you do it in WAPA?

[flak attack]

Oh, come on WAPA. How are we supposed to have Shark War 3 if you guy do this?

[FreddieMercury]

[quote name='Woref' date='05 February 2010 - 09:20 PM' timestamp='1265404844' post='2162079']
You miss the most obvious interpretation of that clause; the one in which we keep out of wars [b]directly involving[/b] either New or Immortal.
[/quote]

If you attack Athens you will not be directly involved in the war between WAPA and Immortals because you aren't attacking either party.

[quote]
Also, I like how you criticize me for "e-lawyering" then do the exact same thing...[/quote]

You know, if you're going to formulate a come-back, it's best to read carefully what I wrote first. To aid you in that: "But let's entertain this notion for a moment" I'm [i]playing[/i] along with your games.

[quote]
FreddieMercury, perhaps you should go back and not just read Page 7. I'm not saying you're going to be totally satisfied with the relevant responses, especially since you're on the opposing side of this conflict but there are several reasons, including WAPA's disagreement with the actions of TOP & IRON, forcing them to issue a statement similar to NEW's policy last war, before any of their allies got involved. Obviously what's good enough for one isn't good enough for the other, depending on what side of the fence you're sitting on of course.[/quote]

Like I said in my previous post, you're putting politics above friendship. You sign a treaty and you honor it when the time comes, not run away at the first disagreement. Take a lesson from Genesis when they defended Polar during the \m/ conflict, they sure as hell didn't agree with the moral crusading, but they [u]honor[/u] treaties.

You think everyone fighting on our side agreed with the pre-empt move by TOP/IRON? No. But we stand by allies.

[quote]
That's inaccurate. We have been great friends with 1TF and the majority of AZTEC for years. It was a tough decision for WAPA it was heavily discussed and the result was this. Don't think we took this lightly. Their were opinions left to right and i think the council was confused in general who to go for there was alot of mixed views that's why a few days ago NEW had mixed responses from us.[/quote]

So, what you're saying is that your new treaties have no value. Gotcha.

Edited February 6, 2010 by FreddieMercury

[LYDIASLAND]

Shark war 3 wouldnt be the tech raid the first 2 were .Bring it on. The silly thing is WAPA has done nothing through the years to make us the bad fellys ,and i come here now and again to see whats being said and its the same old same old same old rubbish.

Get a life or a job or a beer or a good woman.

o/ WAPA

[Hassman]

[quote name='FreddieMercury' date='06 February 2010 - 02:15 AM' timestamp='1265422526' post='2162552']
So, what you're saying is that your new treaties have no value. Gotcha.
[/quote]

No. I am saying Newer treaties < Older treaties. We take everything into account.

[Hassman]

[quote name='yoyoabc' date='06 February 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1265418909' post='2162460']
I beg to differ, HASSMAN. As much as I liked you, this is statement is wrong.
A few days back your people were still asking us, "when shall we jump into the war, who shall we DOW, etc"

for old time sake, do you still want to have NS race?
I bet you can win us both hands down this time.. Oh wait a minute, you still owed us money from the previous race. I thought you guys were going to send aid?
Oh sorry, i forgot, promises mean nothing to you guys. please ignore me.
[/quote]

Oh my god. NOW YOUR MOANING ABOUT THAT. If you looks in our topic history we sorted that out and you guys were ok about it or you said you were ok about please ANYTHING relevant to NATO and this war don't change the subject.If your really that bad about it we will give it to you when you peace out.

[quote name='yoyoabc' date='06 February 2010 - 01:15 AM' timestamp='1265418909' post='2162460']
I am part of GOV. nope, they didnt tell us their stand. stop trying[/quote]
Again. Were the hell has this come from? When you asked requested assistance unfortunately hours before our minds were already made up.
[quote]15[14:45] <Finner[DMoFA|WAPA]> Officaly WAPA will not support the IRON/TOP side of this war. This is regreatable as it leaves NEW in a hard position. I regreat to say that WAPA will be unable to aid or assit NEW by deploying its forces or aid through monies.
15[14:45] <Finner[DMoFA|WAPA]> I am truelly sorry
[14:45] <coekrix[NEW]> it's ok buddy XD
[14:45] <coekrix[NEW]> i will tell the other gov XD[/quote]