Alliance Revivals

[Hymenbreach]

You didn't seem to mind when the NPO did just that.

I and the other members of Legion did that. As you well know. NPO came around to our way of thinking, for their own reasons.

[Lord Boris]

If it died, it died for a reason. However, some people feel they can correct these mistakes to ensure a better future. This usually doesn't work because some of the key members are spread throughout the cyberverse. People are usually hypocritical in the sense that certain alliances are welcomed back while others need to play dead, but I believe it has to do with the government as one of the main priorities.

If an old alliances' former founding, or ruling government, brings the alliance back, usually it is accepted more so than regular common members trying to attempt the same situation. All in all, I believe if something dies and you truly value it -- do what you can to have it. But, as the above gentleman said, you can always create and establish something new with a new start and future. I am a little iffy about it, but from time to time, I miss ONOS and can understand why people miss the name and environment they once were apart of.

I find myself pretty much agreeing with you.

Now granted, part of my unaligned self would love bringing EPIC back (if for no other reason than to eventually obliterate the ungrateful and previously inactive offshoot, lol)

[eyriq]

In the spirit of the Karma war it would seem to be very opportune that revivals of old alliances are occurring in its aftermath. Perhaps these dead alliances still have some of their own karma to work out, which couldn't be done more effectively via the proxy of a successor alliance.

[nippy]

If you are using the same name you should be comprised at least largely of the same alliance you once were. Does anyone really consider Jack Diorno's NAAC to be the NAAC? No. Why? Because Jack Diorno (and whoever else) was not in NAAC, and nobody that was in the NAAC at the time wants the NAAC to come back. It's a matter of legitimacy. If you're going to make a grab at the name you need to have a legitimate claim at it. Not to mention, those who were involved in a first incarnation's demise are more likely to understand, in hindsight, what caused its downfall.

The matter of identity is where the redemption from past mistakes comes in. If, like GOONS has done, the new incarnation simply tries to ride on the wave of the past then they're going to wind up the same way. Guess what: it wasn't reckless foreign policy or idiot leaders going off their rockers that got GOONS killed, it was their insistence on being highly-active griefers that were "playing SomethingAwful" (read: refusing to assimilate into the CN community and taking a no-distinction approach to IC/OOC matters) that made them the enemies of pretty much the entire game. Yeah, you got rid of the bad foreign policy, idiot leaders, and high-strength nations that make those so dangerous, but your attitude is the same as the old GOONS, so to me the war's still on and you need to be swept under the rug again.

I'm surprised you brought up Jack Diorno and his little NAAC thing, considering it's obvious it's yet another attempt to draw attention to himself, and nothing more.

As has been explained in the past, we're not 'riding the wave of the past'. Several of us who were in the previous incarnation of GOONS have come back to the game and decided that we'd only feel comfortable as ourselves in our own skin. It has nothing to do with trying to be like something that used to exist...we're not changing our own personalities to fit some mold that is expected of us, and we're certainly not changing our personalities to represent something more mild than what Something Awful represents. Your non-involvement in the inner-workings that caused the original GOONS to collapse allows me to question your decision to post as if you know more about the collapse than I do. It was the GOONS government, and the GOONS government alone, that decided we should submit ourselves to utter destruction rather than bend to the will of ~. As for the 'war' you refer to, it's as non-existent as your membership to NpO. Get over it, please.

[New Frontier]

I and the other members of Legion did that. As you well know. NPO came around to our way of thinking, for their own reasons.

NPO: Well Legion, I think we WILL go with your strategy of completely changing your governmental structure, placing you under a Viceroy and basically making you a satellite state.

Legion: Heh. Suckers.

[Cobalt]

They are indeed two separate alliances with similar membership and similar names and flags

...and government, and structure, and principles, and values, and community...

Seems to me like you need to think about what constitutes an alliance. Hint: Its a bit more complicated than "name, flag, charter"

[Hymenbreach]

NPO: Well Legion, I think we WILL go with your strategy of completely changing your governmental structure, placing you under a Viceroy and basically making you a satellite state.

Legion: Heh. Suckers.

It was better than the alternative. Plus, when you play CN for any length of time you come to understand that as static as the present seems, there is always change and everything turned out all right in the end.

[Dr Roflcopter]

In my opinion, reviving \m/ seems like the most wonderful thing possible that could ever happen to CN in a billion years

[New Frontier]

It was better than the alternative. Plus, when you play CN for any length of time you come to understand that as static as the present seems, there is always change and everything turned out all right in the end.

I'm going to assume I've played longer than you.

And, you're still in a very imperialistic government set-up.

[Prime minister Johns]

Alliances that reform usually are not as good as the old alliance, many of the old members have either quit or moved on and they lack their personalities to give the alliance its old personality.

VE is an exception here but with every rule in politics there is an exception. (it's inexact "science")

VE managed somehow to recreate the old VE almost exactly, but that was probably due to the unusual degree of camaraderie in the original alliance and many of the old members deciding to reform under the same banner.

\m/ is somewhat alive, but it lacks a lot of the vital spark that made the old \m/ what it was. They have some of the old \m/embers but not all of them and only time will tell if the leadership of \m/ can complete the revival and make \m/ a force to be reckoned with because if they fail all that will remain will be a sad mockery of what once was.

\m/ has the potential to revive at this point, but it is too soon to tell if they will succeed or implode.

And finally the NAAC reformation sits at the other extreme, is still dead, sure Jack has reanimated the corpse a little and it is twitching but it is not the old NAAC and it never will be.

Fake edit: Does one capitalize \m/ if it is at the beginning of a sentence? and if so how?

[Ardus]

Alliances that reform usually are not as good as the old alliance, many of the old members have either quit or moved on and they lack their personalities to give the alliance its old personality.

VE is an exception here but with every rule in politics there is an exception. (it's inexact "science")

VE managed somehow to recreate the old VE almost exactly, but that was probably due to the unusual degree of camaraderie in the original alliance and many of the old members deciding to reform under the same banner.

\m/ is somewhat alive, but it lacks a lot of the vital spark that made the old \m/ what it was. They have some of the old \m/embers but not all of them and only time will tell if the leadership of \m/ can complete the revival and make \m/ a force to be reckoned with because if they fail all that will remain will be a sad mockery of what once was.

\m/ has the potential to revive at this point, but it is too soon to tell if they will succeed or implode.

And finally the NAAC reformation sits at the other extreme, is still dead, sure Jack has reanimated the corpse a little and it is twitching but it is not the old NAAC and it never will be.

Fake edit: Does one capitalize \m/ if it is at the beginning of a sentence? and if so how?

The three big factors supporting VE was that it, one, maintained its offsite forums for its period of non-existence, two, established an intent to reform within days of its disbandment, and three, followed through on that intent after a matter of months with the entirety of its old guard at the helm, including the alliance's original founder.

But, just as in real world combat, one can rarely use the same trick twice. It's much harder to disband with the intent of near-term reformation and dodge terms nowadays because it's been done once before.

[HisK Owns You]

Ronin is a terrible zombie alliance that should be destroyed.

I agree!

[New Frontier]

Some people tried to recreate TGR after the merge, but were shot down by the entirety of the old guard. For the most part, dead alliances should stay dead.

Like it or not, TGR wouldn't be the same without guys like Chimaera involved, regardless of what happened. A recreation would just feel wrong at some level.

[Iotupa]

It is.

The Viridian Entente was forced off Green and disbanded to save its member from fighting for a hopeless cause. (From a statistical point of view) At the time it seemed the right thing to do. ( A VietFAN was something uncalled of at the time ) Although the Entente formally died its spirit amongst the former members never did. We kept using our old forums although everyone headed to different places on Planet Bob. We just seized the first opportunity to make that spirit formal again.

That's atleast how I experienced it at the time.

And if I look at what a thriving community the Entente eventually has become, it has been worth all the effort.

It think it just depends wether the fundament of the original alliance never died in the firstplace.

Cylon, as much as I think you're a good person, the current VE is nothing at all like the old VE.

As far as the topic at hand goes, I dislike alliances being reformed, ESPECIALLY if it is without any of the original founding members or anyone noteworthy from the history of the leadership of the alliance. For example, unless I see banned member, Liberal_Extinction, and Jason8 as the Triumvirate of \m/, then the current \m/ has no place at all even existing. GOONS is a special case because it essentially was a transition from another game to here, rather than a recreation of the old GOONS of CN. Though I feel they would have been better served to use a different acronym, their name is different, and goons means something to the people of that community, so I suppose it is as much their right to use it as the original GOONS of CN.

In short, all zombie alliances should just go back to being dead.