CDT Declaration of War!

[BamaBuc]

The topic you got that info from on our forums is from July 18th...a bit out of date, and we never actually talked about a pre-emptive strike, the discussion was about intel we got that those alliances had formed a bloc to attack us. We don't post anything classified on our forums anymore, for obvious reasons. So, for anyone who wants to accept info from Bama in the future, I'd advise against it, because it's probably distorted/untrue.

Everyone kept asking when you were going to hit them, and you said to be patient and get warchests built up first. Yall were gonna pre-empt them. Not that it really matters. Also LOLPSEC.

-Bama

[Varianz]

Everyone kept asking when you were going to hit them, and you said to be patient and get warchests built up first. Yall were gonna pre-empt them. Not that it really matters. Also LOLPSEC.

-Bama

No, actually, my only response in that entire topic was, as I said earlier, "should be fun". Only one person mentioned warchests, kaimi, who is not a member of the government, and all he said was "let's regroup and tank up on our WCs". Which makes sense since we expected to be attacked. Good try though, really.

[Burning Glory]

Apparently not. Of all the alliances RE was planning to pre-empt, it seems only CDT wanted to do anything with my warning. Ah well.

-Bama

EDIT: for reference, the others are A51, TSM, Fark, and TFD.

A51 and TFD are off limits, they are Allies/Friends of TPF.....They would never hit another ally of TPF's.

The topic you got that info from on our forums is from July 18th...a bit out of date, and we never actually talked about a pre-emptive strike, the discussion was about intel we got that those alliances had formed a bloc to attack us. We don't post anything classified on our forums anymore, for obvious reasons. So, for anyone who wants to accept info from Bama in the future, I'd advise against it, because it's probably distorted/untrue.

This is true, we recieved info that these AA's agreed to join the bloc against TPF and RE.

Once i seen the info, i knew it was not true, plus given the questionable sorce, it is not correct or true intel.

BG.

[Gabryal]

Intel always has to be confirmed, no matter the source. No reputable leader, much less accomplished ones like BG and Tibs would take Intel from a single source and act on it, In fact if BG and Tibs ( two guys I greatly admire ) have any weakness at all, it's that they try to make as many friends as they can. The idea that either of them would conspire to do anything more than protect the members of there perspective alliances or the allies of those alliances is laughable at best, and slander at it's worst. I've been around both BG and Tibs as much as anyone this round, and more than some. I find it very tiring the "conspiracies" that are manufactured with either one of them at the "center" of it. It's just after the fact justifications for aggression. Neither TPF nor RE has engaged in any war this round for any reason except two, first because it became apparent that a direct threat existed to either TPF or RE ( i.e. the TPF-NOIR war ) or because it's a war game and we were out to have a battle. Stop looking for the guy on the grassy knoll and stop the nonsense. If you expect the leaders of TPF or RE to be slack in protecting their members, I can't adequately describe the type of absurdity that your line of thinking is taking. TPF and RE grew to the size they are through the leadership of men like BG and Tibs, it wasn't an accident, it was the result of excellent leadership. If you don't like TPF or RE just say you don't like them, stop inventing excuses to dislike a person based on half-truths, fabrications, and outright nonsense.

The least people could do is give credit where credit is due. RE doubled it's size this round, TPF grew by more than 25%, and it's a result of excellent leadership that starts and ends with BG and Tibs.

I for one will always be grateful to BG in particular for founding TPF, and giving me a place to exist within this game. I'm proud to be part of what he created, and I suspect envy to be a common thread in all the hostility to both BG and Tibs I find on these forums.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Gabryal

[Vespassianus]

Apparently not. Of all the alliances RE was planning to pre-empt, it seems only CDT wanted to do anything with my warning. Ah well.

-Bama

EDIT: for reference, the others are A51, TSM, Fark, and TFD.

I know that they were planning to attack RE too, but it was a bit sooner maybe, before the MHA and Fark war. Now i can't see their wars on RE.

[popsumpot]

Intel always has to be confirmed, no matter the source. No reputable leader, much less accomplished ones like BG and Tibs would take Intel from a single source and act on it, In fact if BG and Tibs ( two guys I greatly admire ) have any weakness at all, it's that they try to make as many friends as they can. The idea that either of them would conspire to do anything more than protect the members of there perspective alliances or the allies of those alliances is laughable at best, and slander at it's worst. I've been around both BG and Tibs as much as anyone this round, and more than some. I find it very tiring the "conspiracies" that are manufactured with either one of them at the "center" of it. It's just after the fact justifications for aggression. Neither TPF nor RE has engaged in any war this round for any reason except two, first because it became apparent that a direct threat existed to either TPF or RE ( i.e. the TPF-NOIR war ) or because it's a war game and we were out to have a battle. Stop looking for the guy on the grassy knoll and stop the nonsense. If you expect the leaders of TPF or RE to be slack in protecting their members, I can't adequately describe the type of absurdity that your line of thinking is taking. TPF and RE grew to the size they are through the leadership of men like BG and Tibs, it wasn't an accident, it was the result of excellent leadership. If you don't like TPF or RE just say you don't like them, stop inventing excuses to dislike a person based on half-truths, fabrications, and outright nonsense.

The least people could do is give credit where credit is due. RE doubled it's size this round, TPF grew by more than 25%, and it's a result of excellent leadership that starts and ends with BG and Tibs.

I for one will always be grateful to BG in particular for founding TPF, and giving me a place to exist within this game. I'm proud to be part of what he created, and I suspect envy to be a common thread in all the hostility to both BG and Tibs I find on these forums.

I think you missed the entire point of the DoW. I said specifically said we didn't declare on RE for those reasons, but rather because no one else is.

Also, did you know Tiberius wanted me to attack him? No? Well stop pointing fingers when you don't know what's going on.

[Varianz]

Intel always has to be confirmed, no matter the source. No reputable leader, much less accomplished ones like BG and Tibs would take Intel from a single source and act on it, In fact if BG and Tibs ( two guys I greatly admire ) have any weakness at all, it's that they try to make as many friends as they can. The idea that either of them would conspire to do anything more than protect the members of there perspective alliances or the allies of those alliances is laughable at best, and slander at it's worst. I've been around both BG and Tibs as much as anyone this round, and more than some. I find it very tiring the "conspiracies" that are manufactured with either one of them at the "center" of it. It's just after the fact justifications for aggression. Neither TPF nor RE has engaged in any war this round for any reason except two, first because it became apparent that a direct threat existed to either TPF or RE ( i.e. the TPF-NOIR war ) or because it's a war game and we were out to have a battle. Stop looking for the guy on the grassy knoll and stop the nonsense. If you expect the leaders of TPF or RE to be slack in protecting their members, I can't adequately describe the type of absurdity that your line of thinking is taking. TPF and RE grew to the size they are through the leadership of men like BG and Tibs, it wasn't an accident, it was the result of excellent leadership. If you don't like TPF or RE just say you don't like them, stop inventing excuses to dislike a person based on half-truths, fabrications, and outright nonsense.

The least people could do is give credit where credit is due. RE doubled it's size this round, TPF grew by more than 25%, and it's a result of excellent leadership that starts and ends with BG and Tibs.

I for one will always be grateful to BG in particular for founding TPF, and giving me a place to exist within this game. I'm proud to be part of what he created, and I suspect envy to be a common thread in all the hostility to both BG and Tibs I find on these forums.

Gabryal, don't be silly. Everything that happens this round is due to a plot by BG and I, along with our minions. We roll alliances because it's all part of our master plan to control TE and prevent any wars from ever happening. Now, would you like some kool aid? Everyone loves it!

I think you missed the entire point of the DoW. I said specifically said we didn't declare on RE for those reasons, but rather because no one else is.

Also, did you know Tiberius wanted me to attack him? No? Well stop pointing fingers when you don't know what's going on.

This man speaks the truth, when I found out CDT was planning to pre-empt any possible pre-emptive action on us (kinda convoluted isn't it?) I was excited, because my members haven't faced a defensive war about a round now, and it's always good practice.

[darkfox]

You know i find it funny when someone says that they "spied" on us since we do not have a TE forum or anything like that in which we post details haha. Also CDT doesn't have allies in TE this round, last round or the one before that. So for us to be part of a TE bloc kinda goes against our nature hehe

[rtellez06]

A51 and TFD are off limits, they are Allies/Friends of TPF.....They would never hit another ally of TPF's.

This is true, we recieved info that these AA's agreed to join the bloc against TPF and RE.

Once i seen the info, i knew it was not true, plus given the questionable sorce, it is not correct or true intel.

BG.

I'm confused. If Area51 is YOUR ally, and GATO is RE's ally, why did A51 and GATO war? :confused:

[mdnss69]

UBD stands behind CDT. Whatever. Ye people are reading far too much into this. It's TE, have war and thats it.

[Ryan Greenberg]

Apparently not. Of all the alliances RE was planning to pre-empt, it seems only CDT wanted to do anything with my warning. Ah well.

-Bama

EDIT: for reference, the others are A51, TSM, Fark, and TFD.

Actually Area 51 was only talking to Fark and others told me TFD might do it, but probebly not. It was CDT, TSM, and A51 for sure.

[popsumpot]

Actually Area 51 was only talking to Fark and others told me TFD might do it, but probebly not. It was CDT, TSM, and A51 for sure.

I wonder how you knew that, because CDT was never in it at any time.

[Varianz]

Arguing over the original reason for the war is pointless now. I'm enjoying myself, my members are enjoying themselves, I'm sure CDT are enjoying themselves, and we're sharing the love with everyone else with our contribution to the global radiation level. Let's all let the "well he said she said you said they were forming a bloc" stuff behind and get back to nuking the crap out of each other.

[TECUMSEH]

o/ War!

One of my Romans is, ooops, was a big nation -- but no nukes Thankfully, my boy surtr is all nuked up and has plenty to serve up. I'm glowing!

[Ryan Greenberg]

I wonder how you knew that, because CDT was never in it at any time.

I was told by A51 that a CDT leader PM'ed the A51 guy saying they wanted to bring down RE and TPF.

[Gabryal]

I think you missed the entire point of the DoW. I said specifically said we didn't declare on RE for those reasons, but rather because no one else is.

Also, did you know Tiberius wanted me to attack him? No? Well stop pointing fingers when you don't know what's going on.

Wow almost seems like you were waiting for that post to jump on it.

If you read it back carefully, I never pointed a finger at you so you have no vested interest in what I had to say. What I condemned was Conspiracies in general, with conspiracies regarding TPF and RE being the most common. Jump back down off your high horse, brush back the fur on your back and calm yourself. I don't know you from Adam, but if you think I missed the point of your DoW, I didn't. I just used the thread to voice my own frustration. I'd like to point out that apparently you missed the entire point of my post.

Also I'd like to point out that what I do and do not know is something you can't possibly know. You know nothing about me, who I am, what I do in TPF, frankly I'd be surprised if you had even heard of me beyond these forums. So don't tell me what I do, and do not know. If Tibs had said to me "Hey CDT is going to attack RE that rocks" I'd have mentioned it here. I'd also likely have added "lmao" as my response. He didn't, and likely he would have if he had known before hand. I certainly tell you that there is no way in hell you would have caught RE off guard if Tibs had a clue before the blitz. Tibs might like wars, but not at the sacrifice of his own people's nations.

Edited August 3, 2009 by Gabryal

[Duncan King]

my alliance was at war for two days and I didn't even notice. I had to make my own fun.

o/ not being gov on Steve

[Zikawe]

I was told by A51 that a CDT leader PM'ed the A51 guy saying they wanted to bring down RE and TPF.

Tiberius pm'd me and said he wanted to be friends, and allies. I feel so betrayed.

Aww well. Can't trust those pesky PMs.

[KingNeptune]

Tiberius pm'd me and said he wanted to be friends, and allies. I feel so betrayed.

Aww well. Can't trust those pesky PMs.

See thats diplomacy, who says were bullies at Roman Empire?

Edited August 4, 2009 by Kingneptune

[darkfox]

I was told by A51 that a CDT leader PM'ed the A51 guy saying they wanted to bring down RE and TPF.

CDT leadership lol. Popcorn (popsumpot) is the only leader

So you would be saying that pops messaged Area 51 saying lets hit RE.

Note: Everyone else doesn't care and since he volunteered round two he has been stuck ever since.

Edit: for clarification and additional useless information.

Edited August 4, 2009 by darkfox

[Clash]

I don't know why so many people are sniveling.

Who cares? War ftw

It's not like the outcome of this is hard to predict. RE's going to win it in the end. They have better organization and the numbers. UDB isn't enough help (planned that way or not), they don't have nearly the numbers or power to make much of a dent. This might not have been a great idea on their part. In another thread some clown compared RE to Nazi Germany and TPF to Japan. Godwin rolled over in his grave laughing - and for all I know he's not even dead yet. Well, to mix history metaphors, UDB might have awakened a sleeping giant.

CDT doesn't have the numbers to win a war like this because they don't recruit much. They just don't have enough nations and can be triple-teamed if need be. Y'know for people who complain as much as they do about other alliances not trying to "win the round," they really do very little to win it themselves. You can't win it unless you get a lot of members. Period, that's it, that's the way the rules are set-up. If you don't recruit a LOT, then you aren't trying. So I have found it more than a bit hypocritical for an alliance that has had a closed membership until just recently, claims to have no TE forum, and who's nation numbers appear to be mid-sized and static to snivel so much about others who try a hell of a lot harder than they do.

At any rate, a half bonus point to CDT for attacking RE, who has 5+ times as many nations as they do. Perhaps they figured their nuke numbers and somewhat greater avg. nation strength might have made a difference. Of course it wouldn't have been that way if RE hadn't fought that hard MHA war earlier in this round. There's an alliance that tries to win, MHA. They fight well, they recruit well, they build nations well. That war certainly put a dent into RE's building progress. This being CDT's first foray onto the battlefield, their nations were all nice and pretty until now.

Ah well, the numbers as of right now are already starting to show:

RE has 275 nations, 55 in anarchy: 20%

CDT has 50 nations, 29 in anarchy: 58%

**UDB has 31 nations, 18 (after tonight) in anarchy: 58%**

UDB has zero nukes, and while CDT still has over twice as many as RE, they won't make up enough of a difference in the end. Unless CDT can round up some more alliances to help them out (which they claim they don't do ) this one's all over except for the glowing.

**Edited to add Re: Can we pull a Hannibal?**

Hannibal lost his final battle (Battle of Zama) against Scipio Africanus of the Roman Empire, and hence the Second Punic War ended the same way the first one did, and as the Third Punic War did later as well. Perhaps not the best analogy?

Edited August 4, 2009 by ClashPoint

[Gabryal]

I don't know why so many people are sniveling.

Who cares? War ftw

It's not like the outcome of this is hard to predict. RE's going to win it in the end. They have better organization and the numbers. UDB isn't enough help (planned that way or not), they don't have nearly the numbers or power to make much of a dent. This might not have been a great idea on their part. In another thread some clown compared RE to Nazi Germany and TPF to Japan. Godwin rolled over in his grave laughing - and for all I know he's not even dead yet. Well, to mix history metaphors, UDB might have awakened a sleeping giant.

CDT doesn't have the numbers to win a war like this because they don't recruit much. They just don't have enough nations and can be triple-teamed if need be. Y'know for people who complain as much as they do about other alliances not trying to "win the round," they really do very little to win it themselves. You can't win it unless you get a lot of members. Period, that's it, that's the way the rules are set-up. If you don't recruit a LOT, then you aren't trying. So I have found it more than a bit hypocritical for an alliance that has had a closed membership until just recently, claims to have no TE forum, and who's nation numbers appear to be mid-sized and static to snivel so much about others who try a hell of a lot harder than they do.

At any rate, a half bonus point to CDT for attacking RE, who has 5+ times as many nations as they do. Perhaps they figured their nuke numbers and somewhat greater avg. nation strength might have made a difference. Of course it wouldn't have been that way if RE hadn't fought that hard MHA war earlier in this round. There's an alliance that tries to win, MHA. They fight well, they recruit well, they build nations well. That war certainly put a dent into RE's building progress. This being CDT's first foray onto the battlefield, their nations were all nice and pretty until now.

Ah well, the numbers as of right now are already starting to show:

RE has 275 nations, 55 in anarchy: 20%

CDT has 50 nations, 29 in anarchy: 58%

UDB has 31 nations, 7 in anarchy: 22% (not bad so far, really)

UDB has zero nukes, and while CDT still has over twice as many as RE, they won't make up enough of a difference in the end. Unless CDT can round up some more alliances to help them out (which they claim they don't do ) this one's all over except for the glowing.

**Edited to add Re: Can we pull a Hannibal?

Hannibal lost his final battle (Battle of Zama) against Scipio Africanus of the Roman Empire, and hence the Second Punic War ended the same way the first one did, and as the Third Punic War did later as well. Perhaps not the best analogy?

Point, Set, Match. Nothin left to say.

[Gabryal]

Ok by popular demand I need to debunk the RE = Nazi Germany, TPF = Imperial Japan quote from before because it bugs me as someone who has a degree in Military History.

The first "conquest" of Nazi Germany was reoccupying the western half of the Rhine, a part of Alsac-Lorraine, that they had lost after the Treaty of Versailles. The total troop strength 5000. The German High Command believed fully that Britain and France would attack immediately and Germany would be crushed, as they did not at that time a suffecient navy or air force ( the lack of a surface navy, and likewise the lack of a long range bomber would haunt Nazi Germany for the rest of WW2 ) Germany had 1/3rd the Production power of the British Empire and 1/2th that of France. Economically it looked like suicide. Only cowardice by politicians in France and Britain permitted it to happen. War production increased rapidly, but could not match the pace that the British Empire and the US would match. To quote Rommel when he heard that the United states was producing a "Liberty" class cargo ship at a rate of one a day "We have lost the war" that was only three years after the Munich Agreement when his own Army was very effectively defeating the British in North Africa. So Nazi Germany was not a super power by any extent, it became a military power through pure focus on one thing. War. RE does not fit this pattern, they are a huge alliance that has a potential for war, but not actively ready for it ( as CDT's successes in the blitz demonstrated.

Instead let's think of RE as the USA in the WW2. Caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor, and the having Italy and Germany declare war on them ( the USA never declared war on Nazi Germany or Italy, it was the other way round, though by treaty . Neither Germany nor Italy was obliged to ) Once hit RE quickly mobilized it's industry, recruited soldiers and fought back, hard. They were stuck in a sneak attack, and then changed their Alliance from Peace to War and turned quickly out a huge mobilized Army to fight the sneak Attack. The comparisons are there.

TPF would be closer to the UK, widespread, diverse, and we even have a culture that values "fair handedness" a distinctly British trait. Powerful in the sense of wide spread, powerful nations, high infra, and willingness to defend "our island" ( look up Churchill's "we'll defend our island" speech, it's epic ). Also while localized wars happen with TPF, ( comparable to uprisings amongst certain parts of the empire ) TPF mobilizes for War in much the same way as the UK does. We pull from all our nations and strike with what we have, we offer peace when it is obvious the enemy is beaten ( ask NOIR ) and fight with a tenacity that tends to define the British as well. TPF would be more like the British Empire in WW2 ( though technically while having a lower industrial output than the USA, UK controlled a larger population and more landmass, facts that are not all that relevant to this analogy )

Now let's look at Imperial Japan. This nation had experienced a rapid modernization of their armed forces in the late 1800, shocking the world by defeating the russian navy in a sea battle in 1905, the first time a Eastern nation had done so. While it's Industrial Production was very high quality, it lacked essential resources. Most of the Military of Japan had been to the US, had trained with the US, and understood the US. It shocked them when they went to war against the US, and even Yamamoto, the planner of Pearl Harbor said. "If I launch this attack, we must have peace with the United States within six months or our nation is finished" his words were rather prophetic. So essentially Japan lacked the ability to keep pace with the US in manufacturing and also lacked the manpower to replace their losses effectively ( particularly their pilots and navy personal ). Point of it, they weren't a behemoth of a nation.

So if you want to be historically accurate, CDT would be like Imperial Japan ( with a sneak attack ) and UBD would be like Nazi Germany ( with declaring war when it was unnecessary ). I just wanted some accuracy here, and also to point out the end fate of both Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan.

[popsumpot]

I really wondered how long it took for the Godwin's law to come into effect.

[rtellez06]

Ok by popular demand I need to debunk the RE = Nazi Germany, TPF = Imperial Japan quote from before because it bugs me as someone who has a degree in Military History.

The first "conquest" of Nazi Germany was reoccupying the western half of the Rhine, a part of Alsac-Lorraine, that they had lost after the Treaty of Versailles. The total troop strength 5000. The German High Command believed fully that Britain and France would attack immediately and Germany would be crushed, as they did not at that time a suffecient navy or air force ( the lack of a surface navy, and likewise the lack of a long range bomber would haunt Nazi Germany for the rest of WW2 ) Germany had 1/3rd the Production power of the British Empire and 1/2th that of France. Economically it looked like suicide. Only cowardice by politicians in France and Britain permitted it to happen. War production increased rapidly, but could not match the pace that the British Empire and the US would match. To quote Rommel when he heard that the United states was producing a "Liberty" class cargo ship at a rate of one a day "We have lost the war" that was only three years after the Munich Agreement when his own Army was very effectively defeating the British in North Africa. So Nazi Germany was not a super power by any extent, it became a military power through pure focus on one thing. War. RE does not fit this pattern, they are a huge alliance that has a potential for war, but not actively ready for it ( as CDT's successes in the blitz demonstrated.

Instead let's think of RE as the USA in the WW2. Caught by surprise at Pearl Harbor, and the having Italy and Germany declare war on them ( the USA never declared war on Nazi Germany or Italy, it was the other way round, though by treaty . Neither Germany nor Italy was obliged to ) Once hit RE quickly mobilized it's industry, recruited soldiers and fought back, hard. They were stuck in a sneak attack, and then changed their Alliance from Peace to War and turned quickly out a huge mobilized Army to fight the sneak Attack. The comparisons are there.

TPF would be closer to the UK, widespread, diverse, and we even have a culture that values "fair handedness" a distinctly British trait. Powerful in the sense of wide spread, powerful nations, high infra, and willingness to defend "our island" ( look up Churchill's "we'll defend our island" speech, it's epic ). Also while localized wars happen with TPF, ( comparable to uprisings amongst certain parts of the empire ) TPF mobilizes for War in much the same way as the UK does. We pull from all our nations and strike with what we have, we offer peace when it is obvious the enemy is beaten ( ask NOIR ) and fight with a tenacity that tends to define the British as well. TPF would be more like the British Empire in WW2 ( though technically while having a lower industrial output than the USA, UK controlled a larger population and more landmass, facts that are not all that relevant to this analogy )

Now let's look at Imperial Japan. This nation had experienced a rapid modernization of their armed forces in the late 1800, shocking the world by defeating the russian navy in a sea battle in 1905, the first time a Eastern nation had done so. While it's Industrial Production was very high quality, it lacked essential resources. Most of the Military of Japan had been to the US, had trained with the US, and understood the US. It shocked them when they went to war against the US, and even Yamamoto, the planner of Pearl Harbor said. "If I launch this attack, we must have peace with the United States within six months or our nation is finished" his words were rather prophetic. So essentially Japan lacked the ability to keep pace with the US in manufacturing and also lacked the manpower to replace their losses effectively ( particularly their pilots and navy personal ). Point of it, they weren't a behemoth of a nation.

So if you want to be historically accurate, CDT would be like Imperial Japan ( with a sneak attack ) and UBD would be like Nazi Germany ( with declaring war when it was unnecessary ). I just wanted some accuracy here, and also to point out the end fate of both Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan.

Time to debunk you. There are a lot of people saying you guys were warring them for no reason. Well guess what, you will still be Germany/Japan because you guys are currently the super powers, and are attacking others smaller then you. I could care less that you guys do this, its a war game. CDT/UBD are attacking back in defense of the rest of the world, hence, they are the allies. Sorry to burst your bubble, but maybe the rest of the world will get fed up soon and just destroy you guys. But thats just my 2 pennies, and my views are that, MINE, and my alliance has nothing to do with this.

Also, I have a lot of respect for the alliances TPF and RE. I might not like some of your guys' leadership, but everything else is commendable, especially in TPF. (like when a small alliance attacked you because they kept getting attacked by you guys, you guys only sent the same # of people instead of outnumbering them 10-1?) I don't have a grudge with RE, but they have done some things they shouldn't be proud of.