Bacharth Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Well, it's getting that time again where people (Junio Borghese namely) are misusing and taking advantage of Botha Mode. In all honesty, I see no point to Botha mode. Here's why... You're not RPing with the community the way the community has agreed to. You're just saying to everyone that you don't want to be invaded, and don't want to RP with anyone else in the community unless you say so. National RPs need to go in the National RP forum, where IG stats are more strictly used. The CNRP community has always been a Fantasy RP, where IG stats are not used so strictly. So, I petition you, CNRP community, should we stop the Botha Mode while it is getting out of hand now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 It should be removed...for all but Botha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 But then that would be an exception to the rule, which would cause a huge amount of OOC whining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serg92 Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I agree...Botha should be able to keep it as he at least cooperates more with CNRP community. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Botha has always RP'd his "Botha Mode" responsibly. Others, not so much. I vote to remove "Botha Mode", but allow him to keep it in a grandfather clause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Exactly...a Grandfathering Method is fine. Either way people don't ussually disturb people who truly RP isolationism, most of the time people who get invaded had it coming either OOC or IC, so if people want to be left alone and RP accordingly and don't OOCly abuse it, it's not like they need an Official Peace Stamp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 May I ask what Botha mode is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justinian the Mighty Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I can't decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) Petition or not, i would keep roleplaying like that whatever the result is, nothing will change for me. Even if people ignore me or do not roleplay with me, at least they will not roleplay non-existent things that may affect my nation. If the choice is 50 wars a week, unrealistic stats and roleplay with everyone, or trade agreements and tech deal with a few people, and a 3000 men army... i chose the second one, and i'll stick with it. Edited July 30, 2009 by Junio Borghese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 It is when you OOCly declare that the nation will not participate in any kind of conflict and is completely or almost completely isolationist, and does not require trading or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agostinho Neto Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 It is when you OOCly declare that the nation will not participate in any kind of conflict and is completely or almost completely isolationist, and does not require trading or anything. Completely wrong, the only difference is i roleplay the IG trades that actually have some influence on my economy. Me and Botha for example are trade partners, and we also RP that here in CNRP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Hmm. Maybe I need to define it better. Botha mode is RPing 100% exactly what happens to your nation IG and only that...at least that's how I saw Botha define it long ago. So, they only RP war if they're at war IG. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zarfef Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 So that means that if I find and invade one of these nations just for kicks they are completely isolationist and will not resort to any allies because they never made any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 If Botha Mode is avoided, yes, however more than likely some third party would oppose you on the grounds that your war is nothing but expansionism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Botha has always RP'd his "Botha Mode" responsibly. Others, not so much. I vote to remove "Botha Mode", but allow him to keep it in a grandfather clause. I endorse this statement 100%. May I ask what Botha mode is? Hmm. Maybe I need to define it better. Botha mode is RPing 100% exactly what happens to your nation IG and only that...at least that's how I saw Botha define it long ago. So, they only RP war if they're at war IG. Or if you RP anything else, it is completely internal, except for diplomatic issues. So that means that if I find and invade one of these nations just for kicks they are completely isolationist and will not resort to any allies because they never made any? No, it means they will not recognize the attack because it is not happening ingame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) NO NO NO FORCED RP!!!!! I don't know about Junio, but the whole affair seemed like a war he didn't want forced on him in RP, he posted about some government protesters or Anarchists getting 'Perma-banned' and gets the whole of Europe knocking on his doorstep. Some people do not like to have wars forced on them.... After the Invasion of the ISoA, during which I explicitly stated these: This is me basically taking some of the ISoA's lands as Quest has gone inactive for 20+ days... I just wanted to fluff up this declaration first...I will integrate our Nation's mutual animosities into my Nations Historical RP later......I submitted a claim for this inactive RPer's lands, as my current size is pitiful compared to my IG one... I just wanted to fluff this claim as an invasion, hence my mentions of military actions to avoid international involvement... I posted an IC post about a live-broadcast execution of the defunct president... I had some one declare an IC war on me, after I explicitly stated that that was not the route I wanted to take with the RP, I just wanted to OOC'ly expand, while fluffing it IC'ly as an invasion to give a sort of 'blood-thirsty, war-like' feel to my nation...not unlike the Harkonnens or Romans and their gladiatorial fights... Nevertheless, I saved face and accepted the war, although I did not want that to occur OOC'ly...some people are not as forgiving, nor as flexible... I planned on making my 'Daily Announcements' thread the Today's Execution Show with an accompanying news broadcast...are you people telling me that I'll have to either stuff my idea or face multiple threats based on human rights? That I'll have to comply with or face discredit within CNRP? If Junio or Botha, or me (I fully intend to look in on Botha Mode), decide to RP using Botha's method, so be it... if we wanna get involved in wars, so be it... if not...leave us to our own machinations...you guys can parade your IC ideals over another more willing nation! Edited July 30, 2009 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markus Wilding Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 You do realize that if Botha Mode is banned for all (except Botha) then you'll HAVE to drop Botha mode and have to comply to a war if one starts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael McBride Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Technically, the rule is if someone declares war on you and you refuse to recognize it, they get your land and you automatically lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acca Dacca Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Can Botha define Botha mode? If the player in question only recently "turned on" this mode, then I guess it should be cut out for being a loophole. If that is not the case, then I suppose anyone should be free to do it so long as the community agrees to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkantos Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Can Botha define Botha mode?If the player in question only recently "turned on" this mode, then I guess it should be cut out for being a loophole. If that is not the case, then I suppose anyone should be free to do it so long as the community agrees to it. Botha mode is, in essence, IG=RP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaiser Martens Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I believe the community should rather discuss something else: Should war require OOC consensus? Regardless of Botha Mode. I think the quality of wars would be better if all warfare required OOC consensus, although people abusing this should be allowed to be declared "open targets" by the Mods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 I believe the community should rather discuss something else: Should war require OOC consensus? Regardless of Botha Mode.I think the quality of wars would be better if all warfare required OOC consensus, although people abusing this should be allowed to be declared "open targets" by the Mods. I think they already do... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah Tintagyl Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 Botha mode as I have seen it played by Botha can and has been an extremely effective form of RP play and considering that its success in the past should not be torn down because of one person, which in truth JB has been quite good at it until the occurring war. The problem I see, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that JB is completely ignoring the rest of the community events that are being pushed upon him. A blockade was placed on Italy, (the northern part, sorry Bio) and JB is still RPing his economy is strong. I can't get on to CN, but I think JB's NS is 5k, therefore he would have a weak economy compared to most of the countries around him and a blockade would do considerable damage to his economy, but at the same time it would still be able to function. After all, I believe that there are various countries tried to filter in goods, and even sanctions on the blockading countries. Guys, this is a terrific opportunity to get a good story out. Botha mode or not, these are only avenues to perfect a better story line. I think there has been a lot of disrespect on both sides here, but nothing that can't be cleared up. JB, I would put some moderate decline in your economy in trying to break the blockade and petition further with the CEU. To the blockaders, well, I guess war is on the horizon. Perhaps, perhaps not. But I mean it comes down to, a violent protest is going to attract attention, so I mean this was probably in the future anyways. But just my two cents, sorry if I didn't hit it on the nail. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subtleknifewielder Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 NO NO NO FORCED RP!!!!!I don't know about Junio, but the whole affair seemed like a war he didn't want forced on him in RP, he posted about some government protesters or Anarchists getting 'Perma-banned' and gets the whole of Europe knocking on his doorstep. Some people do not like to have wars forced on them.... After the Invasion of the ISoA, during which I explicitly stated these: I posted an IC post about a live-broadcast execution of the defunct president... I had some one declare an IC war on me, after I explicitly stated that that was not the route I wanted to take with the RP, I just wanted to OOC'ly expand, while fluffing it IC'ly as an invasion to give a sort of 'blood-thirsty, war-like' feel to my nation...not unlike the Harkonnens or Romans and their gladiatorial fights... Nevertheless, I saved face and accepted the war, although I did not want that to occur OOC'ly...some people are not as forgiving, nor as flexible... I planned on making my 'Daily Announcements' thread the Today's Execution Show with an accompanying news broadcast...are you people telling me that I'll have to either stuff my idea or face multiple threats based on human rights? That I'll have to comply with or face discredit within CNRP? If Junio or Botha, or me (I fully intend to look in on Botha Mode), decide to RP using Botha's method, so be it... if we wanna get involved in wars, so be it... if not...leave us to our own machinations...you guys can parade your IC ideals over another more willing nation! And in that case, if you ignore threats of war, you would have to give up interacting with the rest of the community. That's part of the risk you take when RP'ing in a comunity--to recognize that actions have consequences (whether they are fair consequences or not--that is like life). Even I was attacked once, and I honestly thought I was going to lose, but I recognized it was a legitimate move in the community I played in, and fought anyway. Botha mode as I have seen it played by Botha can and has been an extremely effective form of RP play and considering that its success in the past should not be torn down because of one person, which in truth JB has been quite good at it until the occurring war. The problem I see, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that JB is completely ignoring the rest of the community events that are being pushed upon him. A blockade was placed on Italy, (the northern part, sorry Bio) and JB is still RPing his economy is strong.I can't get on to CN, but I think JB's NS is 5k, therefore he would have a weak economy compared to most of the countries around him and a blockade would do considerable damage to his economy, but at the same time it would still be able to function. After all, I believe that there are various countries tried to filter in goods, and even sanctions on the blockading countries. Guys, this is a terrific opportunity to get a good story out. Botha mode or not, these are only avenues to perfect a better story line. I think there has been a lot of disrespect on both sides here, but nothing that can't be cleared up. JB, I would put some moderate decline in your economy in trying to break the blockade and petition further with the CEU. To the blockaders, well, I guess war is on the horizon. Perhaps, perhaps not. But I mean it comes down to, a violent protest is going to attract attention, so I mean this was probably in the future anyways. But just my two cents, sorry if I didn't hit it on the nail. Honestly, you're probably the least biased person on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Executive Minister Posted July 30, 2009 Report Share Posted July 30, 2009 (edited) And in that case, if you ignore threats of war, you would have to give up interacting with the rest of the community. That's part of the risk you take when RP'ing in a comunity--to recognize that actions have consequences (whether they are fair consequences or not--that is like life). Which is totally retarded... this means all community members would need to RP in a way to not draw any unwanted flak from a self-righteous nation and get involved in a war they have no intention of RPing... hence Forced RP... Besides, some people could care less about interacting with an extremely fickle community, one that jumps at the idea of intervening militarily... hardly 'life-like' don't you think? If I want to RP a ruthless nation filled with bloodlust with a war-like culture, I should be able to without the threat of people upturning their noses at the sight of my bloodshed and invade or otherwise threaten me.... ...and should I feel that I am ready to RP in a war (which i won't for a long time, its hard to come up with unrepetitive, creative and vivid battles and keep up with one enemy, let alone the half dozen Junio faces) then I would PM someone and set a situation up This way its fun to CNRP for EVERYONE Edited July 30, 2009 by Executive Minister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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