The GMs Court

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Executive Minister' date='20 June 2010 - 03:42 PM' timestamp='1277041313' post='2343720']
Yes, what I am describing is a purely naval battle far from any sovereign land. Suddenly, an attack submarine comes to launch a nuclear weapon at the already engaged enemy fleet. Would there be an OOC inclination for the defending fleet to have an OOC SDI roll? Was there a ruling on that?

This is just for clarification, your answer was sorta ambiguous, although what I think you said was that, 'yes, the defender is entitled to an SDI roll'.
[/quote]
I did say what you stated in your last sentence.
Defender gets SDI roll.

There's never been a ruling on such an attack though, as there's never been such an attack from what I know.

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='20 June 2010 - 03:57 PM' timestamp='1277042259' post='2343725']
I believe we should have people state what their spy roll is for before they make the roll. Essentially, people can ask for two spy rolls with no RP back up and if they win one and lose one, they can state that any one of their attacks was successful. Therefore I believe that in order for a spy roll exist, the person must state what the spy roll is for while requesting it.
[/quote]
Once again, valid thoughts, I'll adopt this line of thought immediately.

[Sargun II]

Voodoo's suggestion will just lead to more metagaming. Not everyone has time to post from between when they ask for a roll, when they get it, and when the post gets typed up depending on the success or failure of each roll. And everybody knows that people have used OOC information on impending attacks before, so I'm not just being paranoid here.

Instead, make the person state if they second roll is dependent on the first roll's success, or if they're both independent of each other.

[Biohazard]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 11:00 AM' timestamp='1277049634' post='2343810']
Voodoo's suggestion will just lead to more metagaming. Not everyone has time to post from between when they ask for a roll, when they get it, and when the post gets typed up depending on the success or failure of each roll. And everybody knows that people have used OOC information on impending attacks before, so I'm not just being paranoid here.

Instead, make the person state if they second roll is dependent on the first roll's success, or if they're both independent of each other.
[/quote]
That doesn't really help anything...

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Biohazard' date='20 June 2010 - 11:04 AM' timestamp='1277049866' post='2343814']
That doesn't really help anything...
[/quote]

If both rolls are tied to one another, then one fail means both fail. If they're independent, it doesn't matter which order they succeed or fail in because it's the RPer's prerogative to RP whatever he wants in whatever order he wants. Further, what if he wishes to change what the spy roll is? It sometimes takes hour for a spy roll to come in and in that time if he changes what he wants the roll to be, people might start !@#$%*ing at him.

Revealing OOC information never ends well.

[Sargun II]

Two rolls, 50% odds.
They're to investigate TUO members in the USA; the first roll tracks suspicious arms or fuel or munitions shipments, the other suspicious or illicit messages.
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Sargun_Peaceheart/spyspyspy.png[/img]

I refuse to waste money on spies. Though I could fill them up if I wanted to.

[Kevin Kingswell]

Question if a spy roll fails IG does that nation get to know who attempted to spy on them? If so thne shouldn't that happen in RP too. I mean right now it seems like a good way to cheat your way through spy RP's I mean if you fail then your just go bah and try again the next day but if you succeed then you can cause some real damage.

It should be set so that if you fail then whoever you tried against finds out about it.

[Sargun II]

The nation doesn't get to know who attacks them a lot of the time. I think if they're above 50% and they lose then it's just a loss, and if they're below 50% and they lose then their identity gets revealed.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 11:43 AM' timestamp='1277052202' post='2343848']
The nation doesn't get to know who attacks them a lot of the time. I think if they're above 50% and they lose then it's just a loss, and if they're below 50% and they lose then their identity gets revealed.
[/quote]

Ah okay I wasn't sure thanks for clearing that up. Do you think there is a possibility of including that aspect in CNRP or is it too unfeasible?

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='20 June 2010 - 11:47 AM' timestamp='1277052432' post='2343854']
Ah okay I wasn't sure thanks for clearing that up. Do you think there is a possibility of including that aspect in CNRP or is it too unfeasible?
[/quote]

They also have a "win and your identity is revealed" option as well, and I think that this really depends on the kind of spy op, and the RP associated with it.

[Michael McBride]

In regards to the oil refineries, you're wrong, but I never said I turned the electricity back on again for it, so my mistake. In regards to Zoot's tracing, however, he's said himself that I took down all his electronics, along with all his backups. If that is the case, he could not possibly track who hacked him, as all his electronics would be down. I am asking for his tracing to be retconned as it could not possibly have happened.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 11:49 AM' timestamp='1277052540' post='2343856']
They also have a "win and your identity is revealed" option as well, and I think that this really depends on the kind of spy op, and the RP associated with it.
[/quote]

Ok thats a good point however, if we go back to your point that you say people shouldn't have to say what they are rolling for won't that mean we can't tell if it gets detected or not?

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 06:34 PM' timestamp='1277051643' post='2343840']
Two rolls, 50% odds.
They're to investigate TUO members in the USA; the first roll tracks suspicious arms or fuel or munitions shipments, the other suspicious or illicit messages.
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Sargun_Peaceheart/spyspyspy.png[/img]

I refuse to waste money on spies. Though I could fill them up if I wanted to.
[/quote]
Fail: 1-50
Win: 51-100

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing237.png[/IMG][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing238.png[/IMG]

Win and Fail. You don't see them messages, but the fuel/munitions shipments, after the RP. Derp.

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' date='20 June 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1277052627' post='2343858']
In regards to the oil refineries, you're wrong, but I never said I turned the electricity back on again for it, so my mistake. In regards to Zoot's tracing, however, he's said himself that I took down all his electronics, along with all his backups. If that is the case, he could not possibly track who hacked him, as all his electronics would be down. I am asking for his tracing to be retconned as it could not possibly have happened.
[/quote]
True. My bad, didn't entirely think this through.
Spahroll for tracking you invalid, unless Zoot can figure out a way to track you without using electronics.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Lynneth

[Sargun II]

[quote name='Kevin Kingswell' date='20 June 2010 - 11:51 AM' timestamp='1277052671' post='2343860']
Ok thats a good point however, if we go back to your point that you say people shouldn't have to say what they are rolling for won't that mean we can't tell if it gets detected or not?
[/quote]

They'll have to RP the failed spy op anyway.

[Manetheren]

Two more against Shadow please.

Yeah, its a lot I know, but that is the whole point of a guerrilla war

[Justinian the Mighty]

[quote name='Voodoo Nova' date='20 June 2010 - 09:57 AM' timestamp='1277042259' post='2343725']
I believe we should have people state what their spy roll is for before they make the roll. Essentially, people can ask for two spy rolls with no RP back up and if they win one and lose one, they can state that any one of their attacks was successful. Therefore I believe that in order for a spy roll exist, the person must state what the spy roll is for while requesting it.
[/quote]

I agree with this. You should post the action you want to perform ic, then have the spy rolls then depending on the success or failure the defender should post damages. It cant be abused, if the roll was successful then it was successful, if it failed then it failed. Simple as that.

[Voodoo Nova]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 12:00 PM' timestamp='1277049634' post='2343810']
Voodoo's suggestion will just lead to more metagaming. Not everyone has time to post from between when they ask for a roll, when they get it, and when the post gets typed up depending on the success or failure of each roll. And everybody knows that people have used OOC information on impending attacks before, so I'm not just being paranoid here.

Instead, make the person state if they second roll is dependent on the first roll's success, or if they're both independent of each other.
[/quote]

My line of thought is, in order for the spy attack to be ready, there is already an RP in place for it to be able to happen in a logical order.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Voodoo Nova

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='20 June 2010 - 08:11 PM' timestamp='1277057463' post='2343930']
Two more against Shadow please.

Yeah, its a lot I know, but that is the whole point of a guerrilla war
[/quote]
You'll need to resubmit zour odds, including the CN timestamp and what you're using the rolls for.

[Shadowsage]

[img]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9035/newbitmapimage3m.png[/img]
I figured since Mudd has 70% odds, that makes sense that I have 30, but meh.

Two from yesterday and two from today.

Two tracing the attacks back.
Two searching for main hideaways.

[Zoot Zoot]

[quote name='Pravus Ingruo' date='20 June 2010 - 05:50 PM' timestamp='1277052627' post='2343858']
In regards to the oil refineries, you're wrong, but I never said I turned the electricity back on again for it, so my mistake. In regards to Zoot's tracing, however, he's said himself that I took down all his electronics, along with all his backups. If that is the case, he could not possibly track who hacked him, as all his electronics would be down. I am asking for his tracing to be retconned as it could not possibly have happened.
[/quote]


Mate, ive not RP'd any sort of tracing.
Seeing as your post was ruled against, it never happened, So i didnt need to pal.

[Lynneth]

[quote name='Shadowsage' date='20 June 2010 - 09:43 PM' timestamp='1277063015' post='2343988']
[img]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/9035/newbitmapimage3m.png[/img]
I figured since Mudd has 70% odds, that makes sense that I have 30, but meh.

Two from yesterday and two from today.

Two tracing the attacks back.
Two searching for main hideaways.
[/quote]

Fail: 1-70
Win: 71-100

[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing239.png[/IMG][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing240.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing241.png[/IMG][IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v284/Lynneth_del_Serpentas/AE/Thing242.png[/IMG]

Thrice a winner, once a loser.
I never rolled a 100 on that thing before.

[Subtleknifewielder]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 09:34 AM' timestamp='1277051643' post='2343840']
I refuse to waste money on spies. Though I could fill them up if I wanted to.
[/quote]
It could be a slow steady thing, like perhaps one a day. Once you have them you don't have to pay bills...the only thing about them is the expensive initial cost.

Edited June 20, 2010 by Subtleknifewielder

[HHAYD]

[quote name='Sargun' date='20 June 2010 - 11:34 AM' timestamp='1277051643' post='2343840']
Two rolls, 50% odds.
They're to investigate TUO members in the USA; the first roll tracks suspicious arms or fuel or munitions shipments, the other suspicious or illicit messages.
[img]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y18/Sargun_Peaceheart/spyspyspy.png[/img]

I refuse to waste money on spies. Though I could fill them up if I wanted to.
[/quote]
There are only four TUO members in USA and they received all of their supplies and equipment via smuggling from their buddies in GLP. Nothing much interesting about them since they were told to cease all of their operations and send leftover stuff back to GLP when the three multi-billionaire members thought there will be war.

[Manetheren]

[IMG]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7106/hjhkhkjgkhkhkjhkjh.jpg[/IMG]

Two more rolls for today. What would you say assassination of enemy military leadership is? Change DEFCON levels or incite government propaganda?

On another note, what would car bombs against civilians in his population centers be. I'm guessing destroy infrastructure since in game infrastructure is correlated to population. Reduce infra=reduce population

Also Shadow, respond to my attacks and stop questioning everything I do. An insurgency 1) doesn't need stockpiles and 2) I've RP'd a population that is constantly prepared for a disaster since the start of RP. If you want to dig through 3000 posts to find exact tings, go ahead.

Insurgencies are highly cost effective because, like the Taliban shows, its almost impossible to hunt down even without local support and really really easy to cause mass damage without much trouble.

[Kevin Kingswell]

[quote name='Emperor Mudd' date='20 June 2010 - 06:57 PM' timestamp='1277078214' post='2344278']
[IMG]http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/7106/hjhkhkjgkhkhkjhkjh.jpg[/IMG]

Two more rolls for today. What would you say assassination of enemy military leadership is? Change DEFCON levels or incite government propaganda?

On another note, what would car bombs against civilians in his population centers be. I'm guessing destroy infrastructure since in game infrastructure is correlated to population. Reduce infra=reduce population

Also Shadow, respond to my attacks and stop questioning everything I do. An insurgency 1) doesn't need stockpiles and 2) I've RP'd a population that is constantly prepared for a disaster since the start of RP. If you want to dig through 3000 posts to find exact tings, go ahead.

Insurgencies are highly cost effective because, like the Taliban shows, its almost impossible to hunt down even without local support and really really easy to cause mass damage without much trouble.
[/quote]

The Taliban clearly have outside funding and resupply and they also have some local support. Your insurgency has no outside funding or resupply and defiantly does not have local support thanks to Shadowsage.

Lets not forget that Shadowsage just RP'd a massive hunt for your insurgents so I doubt they have the ability to launch strikes right now.

[Manetheren]

First off, the Taliban doesn't have a government in exile. I do. Second, both the Taliban and myself have a friendly populace right across the border. Sargun's Tahoe and Pakistan both serve the same purpose.

Hunting for an insurgency is great but the lovely thing about spy attacks is they are an in game mechanic. He can hunt all he want but the attacks won't stop.