MHA: request for explanation

[emily]

In the course of her own defense in this thread, Emily has posted private logs of Triumvir-Minister discussions about extremely sensitive internal MHA issues. Any doubt about the merits of ZI ended with her behavior in this thread. It's deeply saddening to see, as I know Emily a better person that she shows here, just as MHA is too good to allow itself to get baited like this.

I only posted what I needed to to defend myself against MHAs false allegations.

Had scutter bothered to check his facts before he posted them, he may well have found out that I was indeed, not lying, and I would not have needed to take this action.

But it still does beg the question, how did MHA "decide" that someone was not the vox spy, yet "decide" I am indeed a spy? - is it because he is just well liked????

[CptGodzilla]

The thread wasn't an OOC bashing thread.

/me shrugs.

It was *******, but strictly in game.

I don't know how else to say it. Nothing more or less than in any other private forums of any other alliance.

She logged into another members account with the intent to spy, why else would she betray their confidence and use their password she used to babysit their nation a few months ago to access our forums?

I should be handing out jump to conclusion mats.

I would delete a thread like that instantly unless the person the thread was about was ok with it. That's how most alliances work, we don't bash former members unless we're ZIing them.

[WorkingClassRuler]

Part Q is the relevant article. She illegally obtained the information as a non member (she is the external source, using the account to obtain the information), and made numerous overtures about what would happen "if it got out". I don't think I really need to explain that espionage is espionage and a crime in most alliance's books.

MHA did have an OOC hate campaign going on. I did see it, i did tell MHA, you decided to ZI me.

MHA has other spies in their alliance that it choses not to ZI because quite frankly they are your pals!. I am being ZI'd because I just don't fit in!

Your lies disgust me.

[OOC:] If you believe there to be OOC attacks then there is another venue in which to report it. Give you a hint, it's not here. [/OOC]

Edited June 29, 2009 by Working_Class_Ruler

[Ada069]

k thanx for clearing that up.

[emily]

You disgust me.

Stop stealing my quotes!

OK I think it is safe to say WCR and emily's relationship has suffered an irreconcilable breakdown... I am still not 100% sure as to exactly when this happened, but suffice to say it was before this thread started, and indeed, before the ZI order was ever issued.

If you have a problem with something I have said. Please have it out with me in query, like i asked you to do about a week ago.... It doesn't need to be just now, in fact probably better to do it when you have calmed down.

Apart from that, I don't know about everyone else but I'm getting bored with this thread, it isn't getting us anywhere, time to move on?

[WorkingClassRuler]

lol I'm calm sunshine. Because I know i've got the facts and the truth on my side. You have nothing but half-baked excuses and pure fabrications so maybe next time don't start a mud slinging thread if you ain't got the dirt to back it up. I find it laughable that now the thread has turned against you, you are suddenly bored of it and calling for Private Channels. That avenue is no longer available to you until your ZI order is followed out completely.

You are liar and a traitor, I hope that's enough "explanation" for you.

[emily]

lol I'm calm sunshine. Because I know i've got the facts and the truth on my side. You have nothing but half-baked excuses and pure fabrications so maybe next time don't start a mud slinging thread if you ain't got the dirt to back it up. I find it laughable that now the thread has turned against you, you are suddenly bored of it and calling for Private Channels. That avenue is no longer available to you until your ZI order is followed out completely.

You are liar and a traitor, I hope that's enough "explanation" for you.

funny - I was thinking pretty much the same about you. I'm sure we're not BOTH that evil?

[Bob Janova]

It was time to move on before you started it. You don't get to open a thread attempting to bash MHA and then tell everyone else to move on when you start losing in it.

I have not seen any point in the logs where MHA gov were aware you had access to another member's account.

[emily]

It was time to move on before you started it. You don't get to open a thread attempting to bash MHA and then tell everyone else to move on when you start losing in it.

I have not seen any point in the logs where MHA gov were aware you had access to another member's account.

post no 201 in this thread.

[Freelancer]

Emily admitted to spying. She's being ZI'd for it. What else is left to discuss huh?

• How can this be spun into an alliance war
  
• Is MHA Eviler than NPO
  
• Will Jerdge be entering this thread with a 20 paragraph synopsis of the events
  

This is just my short list, I'm sure there are much more High Profile Players, that could come up with much more.

OCC, I'm feeling a bit under the weather from a weekend of Food and Drink

Edited June 29, 2009 by Freelancer

[Bob Janova]

You mean this?

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> but i think you should post a why i left thread

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> to appease WCR

01[17:04] <emily> I can't

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> y?

01[17:04] <emily> no access

01[17:04] <emily> plus I'm not sure what he wants me to write

01[17:05] <emily> there is no drama on the forums - I checked smile.gif

[17:05] <gov #1[MHA]> hehe

That does not show that 'Gov 1' knew you had access to someone else's account. Even without your primary access, there are other ways to 'check' which I would assume were the case in his position – talking to friends who were still members being the most obvious.

[Gurney Halleck]

First and foremost, Emily entered restricted areas of the forum of her former alliance to gather and/or check information. She did this with a saved account password from some MHA member she had babysat for a few months previous when she was still a member.

I think we would all recognize the above as a 'crime'. So, the question is to emily's motives, and the severity of the punishment meted out by the MHA.

To these questions, as opposed to a sincere apology and a promise to never illicitly access private areas of MHA's forums ever again, she posts more private information; and states that the punishment she is receiving has 'made her more inclined to spy [again in the future] unless she can be persuaded not to [by the MHA].'

(as an aside: without arguing for or against the use of ZI for this, I would note that Emily currently has ~17 infra. At this point, to go to ZI and back to 17 infra is a cost of less than $4000. I'm not sure such an immediately repairable situation is worth the drama, emily.)

(edit: clarity)

Edited June 29, 2009 by AAlumni

[emily]

You mean this?

That does not show that 'Gov 1' knew you had access to someone else's account. Even without your primary access, there are other ways to 'check' which I would assume were the case in his position – talking to friends who were still members being the most obvious.

and the other one?

There are a couple of similar ones too but not really able to post them on the public forums.

YES - a number of MHA gov DID know I had access to an account. One or two of them even knew which account that was. That was how they knew where to look! However some other Gov took it upon themselves to post accusations calling me a liar on behalf of all MHA gov, and those gov members that were aware did not come forward to admit their role. therefor I had no choice but to provide the evidence proving my side.

Not that it's really relevant - it's just that it annoys me that they are using that as a way of calling me a liar. I am not. Nor do I bear malice towards MHA. I am just defending myself from their false allegations, which has now caused them far more damage than the initial incident did in the first place.

[WorkingClassRuler]

[ooc] It's called IP matching. You left your fingerprints all over the cookie jar. [/ooc]

I believe you greatly over-estimate your impact on our alliance. As AAlumni said, you are a minor drama and will be promptly forgotten about. I'm also confident most people can see the blatant lies you have told and the justification behind the action we have taken. But if you like to think that you've caused us some great distress, I guess it's just one more fantasy fabrication you can add to your already impressive list.

[emily]

[ooc] It's called IP matching. You left your fingerprints all over the cookie jar. [/ooc]

I believe you greatly over-estimate your impact on our alliance. As AAlumni said, you are a minor drama and will be promptly forgotten about. I'm also confident most people can see the blatant lies you have told and the justification behind the action we have taken. But if you like to think that you've caused us some great distress, I guess it's just one more fantasy fabrication you can add to your already impressive list.

kinda contradicts this:

Bit hard to be dragged into it when you made the OP take a good look at urself before accusing us. For the record kowalski found you out not me i merely got redirected to track it down.

I'm sorry to be the one to tell you that you don't know everything that is going on in your alliance but...

Again... MHA gov KNEW........

[WorkingClassRuler]

lol i'm not joining this little merry-go-round of stupid with you anymore, Emily. The ZI order stays, you are a spy and a traitor and your thread has not changed that. You wanted your explanation, we have given you one.

[caligula]

Again... MHA gov KNEW........

Yes, we did. As soon as we matched your forum ips.

the account that you were masked as non-member and a member mask that you gained access from using the password they entrusted to use when you babysat their nation months ago.

You're absolutely right.

I'd just like to add "lol" at being brought up at various stages while at work.

and <3 wickedj

Edited June 29, 2009 by caligula

[tristram]

[ooc] It's called IP matching. You left your fingerprints all over the cookie jar. [/ooc]

I believe you greatly over-estimate your impact on our alliance. As AAlumni said, you are a minor drama and will be promptly forgotten about. I'm also confident most people can see the blatant lies you have told and the justification behind the action we have taken. But if you like to think that you've caused us some great distress, I guess it's just one more fantasy fabrication you can add to your already impressive list.

It just seems odd that someone who you claim to be a master spy would knowingly enter a board and then tell the same govt that they did it. It just seems more like "well we can ZI emily for that i guess"

[Sylveste]

It just seems odd that someone who you claim to be a master spy would knowingly enter a board

I don't believe we have ever used the term master spy, just spy.

[WorkingClassRuler]

It just seems odd that someone who you claim to be a master spy would knowingly enter a board and then tell the same govt that they did it. It just seems more like "well we can ZI emily for that i guess"

Who said she was a "master spy"? Going by her initial conversation with Myth, she at first implied that she had been given screenshots of the information and used it to taunt our security and Myth. It was only later that we confronted her with our knowledge of the account she accessed, and thus she admitted to it. We found out about the other account due to IP matching.

[emily]

Who said she was a "master spy"? Going by her initial conversation with Myth, she at first implied that she had been given screenshots of the information and used it to taunt our security and Myth. It was only later that we confronted her with our knowledge of the account she accessed, and thus she admitted to it. We found out about the other account due to IP matching.

So why did you need kowalski to tell you I was using BRs account? And how did he know?

[caligula]

So why did you need kowalski to tell you I was using BRs account? And how did he know?

?

Our Moderator Control Panel works wonders.

You can see all sorts of things. Especially multis.

My guess is he checked Emily and guess what came up?

is your defence now that it's unfair how you were caught?

I think I'm done here.

[emily]

?

Our Moderator Control Panel works wonders.

You can see all sorts of things. Especially multis.

My guess is he checked Emily and guess what came up?

is your defence now that it's unfair how you were caught?

I think I'm done here.

good guess - but not right.... I understand the mod control has an extra log in now, so you would see if he had indeed accessed it.

One more time... how did kowalski know?

[janax]

So has the head judge already sissued a summary judgement and sentenced her to ZI?

Technically, non-members also get a trial, as evidenced by Article III, Part Q of the Mostly Harmless Revolution. It's the part dealing with EXTERNAL crimes. Specifically mentions outside entities first strike nuking, non-members spying in game on MHA nations, etc etc. Seems to indicate pretty well that it would be a trial situation. I don't believe the trium has the authority to sentence anyone, only the head judge, even if it's merely a summary judgment of the facts.

I'm sure she's guilty and probably warrants the decision, just pointing out for all the people claiming she doesn't get a trial, that they are wrong. There is at least the pretense of a trial and the head judge has to sign off on the situation.

[emily]

So has the head judge already sissued a summary judgement and sentenced her to ZI?

Technically, non-members also get a trial, as evidenced by Article III, Part Q of the Mostly Harmless Revolution. It's the part dealing with EXTERNAL crimes. Specifically mentions outside entities first strike nuking, non-members spying in game on MHA nations, etc etc. Seems to indicate pretty well that it would be a trial situation. I don't believe the trium has the authority to sentence anyone, only the head judge, even if it's merely a summary judgment of the facts.

I'm sure she's guilty and probably warrants the decision, just pointing out for all the people claiming she doesn't get a trial, that they are wrong. There is at least the pretense of a trial and the head judge has to sign off on the situation.

^what he said!^