MHA: request for explanation

[emily]

Edited spellings.

Session Start: Wed Jun 24 09:16:28 2009

Session Ident: pudge1975

01[09:16] <emily[work]> morning

.....

[10:05] <pudge1975> I like being in Gov and look foward to taking KMs place one day...though I did hate taking gunthers spot as he was my fav player

01[10:07] <emily> what happened to shamshir?

01[10:07] <emily> this is !@#$@#$ !@#$

01[10:07] <emily> WCR blackballs me, sends a spiteful message saying he's continue doing it

[10:08] <pudge1975> sham is still with us,,,he is running for triv

01[10:08] <emily> and shamshir gets the blame?

01[10:08] <emily> go gov advisor mask

01[10:08] <emily> *no

[10:09] <pudge1975> hmmm...he still had ops today...dont know what thats all about

01[10:09] <emily> I should hack in and take a look....

[10:09] <pudge1975> LOL

01[10:09] <emily> you know what

01[10:09] <emily> I might do that just to !@#$@#$ piss that !@#$%* off!

01[10:10] <emily> who's winning?

01[10:10] <emily> the trium election

....

[10:16] <pudge1975> my opinion is Myth will win

01[10:17] <emily> probably

01[10:17] <emily> all the others are inactive

01[10:17] <emily> myth is so hated

01[10:17] <emily> teh stuff that has been volunteered to me since i left....

01[10:17] <emily> he just needs to deliver his criticism better

01[10:18] <emily> lol - just did a forum search on "emily"

01[10:18] <emily> they're RPing me in shamshirs Bar!

01[10:20] <emily> hope you're not dobbing me in!

[10:21] <pudge1975> shams bar??? let me go look

01[10:22] <emily> and I can't believe kowalski's moving back to rolling aid chains after all that!!!!!

01[10:23] <emily> man - I love MHA forums

01[10:23] <emily> they are teh best

[10:23] <pudge1975> LOL

01[10:25] <emily> {quote="TheStig"}

01[10:25] <emily> In that case, we need to regulate every person moving in and out of the AA. Some sort of script would be useful for this...

01[10:25] <emily> NOW I'M REALLY !@#$@#$ PISSED OFF!!!!!!!

01[10:26] <emily> AND..... calm

01[10:27] <emily> lol - myth thinks he has friends in OSA!

01[10:35] <emily> oh man.....

01[10:35] No such nick/channel

Session Close: Wed Jun 24 10:35:15 2009

Session Start: Mon Jun 22 16:49:52 2009

Session Ident: gov #1 [MHA]

01[16:49] <emily> awww *****

01[16:50] <emily> everyones in a right strop!

01[16:50] <emily> how's the exams go anyway?

[16:50] <gov #1[MHA]> good#i'm sorry for not demasking you quickly and apparently fing up yout top application :s

01[16:50] <emily> WRC is really pissed

01[16:50] <emily> so i showed him the logs

[16:51] <gov #1[MHA]> i know

01[16:51] <emily> now he's even more pissed!

[16:51] <gov #1[MHA]> I was busy and it slipped my mind

01[16:51] <emily> rubbed salt into the wound

01[16:51] <emily> i know!

01[16:51] <emily> it's not your fault

.....

01[16:52] <emily> he was upset I never psoted a leaving thread

01[16:52] <emily> so i showed him the logs

01[16:52] <emily> but what I said to you, .... it's not nice really is it?

01[16:52] <emily> that's why i never made a thread

01[16:52] <emily> anyway, pointing that out, and saying it would make things worse posting that

01[16:52] <emily> is childish and immature apparently

01[16:53] <emily> so now he's vowed to block ALL further applications

[16:53] <gov #1[MHA]> do you have logs?

..........

01[16:54] <emily> ....

01[16:55] <emily> I've replied saying I must be missing something intranslation, i'm not agianst MHA here etc... but CN forums don't keep sent copies

01[17:00] <emily> I don't want all this fighting, that's kinda why i left

01[17:00] <emily> I don't hate anyone

01[17:00] <emily> I have nothing against MHA, they are a great alliance

01[17:01] <emily> what else could i do?

[17:01] <gov #1[MHA]> I'll try and help mate

[17:01] <gov #1[MHA]> but i have other charges against me :S

[17:01] <gov #1[MHA]> gtg

[17:01] <gov #1[MHA]> work

01[17:01] <emily> other charges?

01[17:01] <emily> christ?

01[17:02] <emily> aiding the emily during wartime?

[17:02] <gov #1[MHA]> .............v

[17:02] <gov #1[MHA]> .......somthing else

01[17:03] <emily> what info?

01[17:03] <emily> ah

01[17:03] <emily> WTF is going on?

01[17:03] <emily> MHA is tearing itself apart

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> .........................

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> but i think you should post a why i left thread

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> to appease WCR

01[17:04] <emily> I can't

[17:04] <gov #1[MHA]> y?

01[17:04] <emily> no access

01[17:04] <emily> plus I'm not sure what he wants me to write

01[17:05] <emily> there is no drama on the forums - I checked

[17:05] <gov #1[MHA]> hehe

........

[17:06] <gov #1[MHA]> sorry i can't help and for !@#$@#$ this up for you

[17:06] <gov #1[MHA]> i truley am

..........

01[17:08] <emily> and this rowing with MHA needs sorting

[17:08] <gov #1[MHA]> hmm

[17:08] <gov #1[MHA]> right be back in a few hours

01[17:08] <emily> well I asked WCR to catch me on IRC

[17:08] <gov #1[MHA]> hopefully this will be sorted out soon

01[17:08] <emily> it's silly

[17:09] <gov #1[Work]> hmm

01[17:09] <emily> I hope things work out ok with you

01[17:09] <emily> is it a public thread? I might get some popcorn...

[17:09] <gov #1[Work]> no private in PMs

[17:09] <gov #1[Work]> and you don't have enough popcorn

01[17:10] <emily> well - maybe he's just had too many of those going on recently...

01[17:10] <emily>

01[17:10] <emily> not going to tell me the top sekrit info???

[17:11] <gov #1[Work]> lol no

01[17:11] <emily> you're no fun!

01[17:11] <emily> well sounds like he's going though the MHA mill atm

01[17:11] <emily> everyone's on his case

Session Close: Mon Jun 22 17:41:49 2009

Edited July 2, 2009 by emily

[Augustus Autumn]

When emily left us 2 weeks ago she had many a bad personal feeling against several in gov myself cinluded. In the past before that she had previously dropped her position within the department i control due to who i voted for in the trium elections. Again because of her personal feelings.

When she left she never followed procedure no leaving post nothing. So we are positive that bad blood is still there with her and this just proves it more and more. After leaving us she applied to TOP no more than 4 times constantly being declined and causing all srots of trouble for the guys over at TOP. I believe she suffers from paranoia and thinks the worllds out to get her. We at MHA were more than happy to let her go and leave it at that we hold no ill will to any former member. Until that formal member gets caught in an act of espionage against us.

She got caught punishment was simple ZI. Now that shes destroyed her infra herself the punishment is almost over.

My apologies for being blunt, but in essence her being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure by your alliance is for the following reasons:

- Not following proper departure procedures

- Your belief (noted in bold) that she harbored ill intentions toward your alliance

- Applying to The Order of the Paradox and being rejected on four occasions and causing problems for them

- Engaging in unauthorized access of your alliance's forums

Is this correct?

[caligula]

Well, it was some of you folks from MHA that were arguing the point as to or hostile intent. If you are going to argue a point it helps to get it right. Other than that, do as you wish.

Only after someone argued that logging into an account of another member after procurring their password from nation sitting them months ago was somehow unhostile.

[WorkingClassRuler]

From this segment of the conversation we can see two things - Emily admits to logging onto the Mostly Harmless Alliance forums within minutes of the beginning of the conversation and that she (correctly) states that government had been notified that she was in possession as well as had been given confirmation of her access approximately one hour and twenty minutes previously.

I think this is the source of your confusion. Apart from being shown that Emily does have access to the MHA's forums, it in no way states that she had authorized access or that said access was approved before coming to the MHA about the supposed screenshots. I am saying with complete honesty that I had no idea she had access to our boards outside of her official account and due to the manner in which Emily left the alliance, I would have ensured that she no longer had ANY access to the boards at all after she left, had I known about her access to other accounts.

She left in very bad faith, as reflected by her current "non-member" mask on our forums, when former members usually receive a "Former Hitchhiker" mask. The "Former Member" mask has access to public areas, the "Non-Member" mask has none, which is a reflection of MHA's desired relations with Emily - as in, we wanted nothing to do with her any more. Had I known she had access to another account, it too would have been demasked fully to prevent her from accessing our boards.

Furthermore, I have no reason why Emily would have gained access to another member's forum account if they were only sitting their nation. It's certainly not MHA policy to do so, no one would have asked the nation to do so.

And lastly, and if these screenshots exist, surely one would tell the alliance and provide the evidence - as Myth clearly requested. You do NOT then commit espionage by using another member's account to access our boards just to see if the shots were legit or not. That is the most ridiculous and stupid excuse I have ever heard of - and it's not even the actual excuse she used at the time. She wanted to know if MHA was bad mouthing her, as she clearly admitted first.

I guess it comes down to this - where is the alliance government getting the impression that Emily was, in fact, acting maliciously? If so, what did she do to act maliciously? The closest thing I can find to some sort of malice is her accidentally stumbling into some sort of counter-intelligence scheme and ruining it. If she is being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure because she made a mistake and accessed the forums then, certainly, I understand. Saying that she was acting with ill intent is an entirely different proposition as it paints her not in the light of a foolish ruler but rather a devious one who would best not be accepted into other alliances. Mistakes fade with time and education - accusations of evil intent tends to follow someone.

I think it also comes down to knowing Emily. She has repeatedly lied, falsified information, committed OOC attacks against members, and acted dishonestly while in MHA. It was because she was called out on her actions that she initially left the alliance once before. When she left this time, I was quite clear that she was not to come to our forums or IRC. I specifically warned her against doing so, as a result of the way she had acted and left the alliance. I was happy to leave it at that - but then this happened and it was the final straw.

I do believe this entire incident (the claims of screenshots, accessing our forums and admitting to it, her repeated insults and comments about a former Hitchhiker who [OOC]passed away in real life[/OOC]), is out of maliciousness and a desire for attention. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. As we have repeatedly said, she made her bed - we're just tucking her in.

[caligula]

My apologies for being blunt, but in essence her being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure by your alliance is for the following reasons:

- Not following proper departure procedures

- Your belief (noted in bold) that she harbored ill intentions toward your alliance

- Applying to The Order of the Paradox and being rejected on four occasions and causing problems for them

- Engaging in unauthorized access of your alliance's forums

Is this correct?

...no.

- Engaging in unauthorized access of MHA's forums

- Procuring such access through using the password of a nation she nation sat and logging into that member's username

- Using the access she had to reveal information she would not otherwise be privildged to

- Threatening to release more information as to become a more proper spy

She wasn't forthcoming, and she had indeed left two weeks ago in bad faith. Neither are necessarily relevant, but they support the contrary to the claim that someone would perform the actions she had in good faith.

And I'll let you be the judge of the character of her log dump. Hopefully it's as scrutinized as ours were.

Edited June 29, 2009 by caligula

[emily]

Now you are just resorting to downright lies to cover your back. I did not leave MHA in bad faith. and you are fully aware of my reasons for leaving as you were shown the logs below:

Session Start: Mon Jun 15 16:21:07 2009

Session Ident: Shamshir[MHA]

01[16:21] <emily> hi

[16:21] <Shamshir[MHA]> hey

01[16:21] <emily> when do your exams finish?

[16:38] <Shamshir[MHA]> Thursday

01[16:38] <emily> sham

01[16:39] <emily> I need demasking and removing form the #harmless list

[16:39] <Shamshir[MHA]> whut, why

01[16:40] <emily> MHA has nothing to offer me anymore

[16:40] <Shamshir[MHA]>

[16:40] <Shamshir[MHA]> in what way?

01[16:40] <emily> I want to work with numbers

01[16:40] <emily> and databases

01[16:41] <emily> I can't do that in MHA

[16:41] <Shamshir[MHA]> Yeah you can, we need you in MoT and to help find and kill the ghosts

01[16:41] <emily> no

01[16:41] <emily> you don't

01[16:41] <emily> MHA will never do anything about the ghosts

01[16:41] <emily> there is just no point

[16:42] <Shamshir[MHA]> they will

01[16:42] <emily> plus

[16:42] <Shamshir[MHA]> srsly

01[16:42] <emily> I am not an experienced player

[16:42] <Shamshir[MHA]> when i get back it is the first thing i will make sure of

01[16:42] <emily> I need someone more experienced to teach me

01[16:42] <emily> well

01[16:42] <emily> I want to learn new stuff

[16:43] <Shamshir[MHA]> i can be that guy

01[16:43] <emily> and MHA has never done stuff like that in the past

01[16:43] <emily> why should it change now?

[16:43] <Shamshir[MHA]> because we need to or were gonna get our asses kicked

01[16:43] <emily> <Shamshir[MHA]> i can be that guy - no you can't

01[16:43] <emily> well

01[16:43] <emily> I tried - more than once

[16:44] <Shamshir[MHA]> why can't I?

[16:44] <Shamshir[MHA]> i know this game inside out

01[16:44] <emily> you are more politics

01[16:44] <emily> and that's it

01[16:44] <emily> I want to know this game too

01[16:44] <emily> but

01[16:44] <emily> it's like RL

[16:44] <Shamshir[MHA]> i was in towels before i got bored with it

[16:44] <Shamshir[MHA]> hmm

01[16:44] <emily> I need to move on

[16:45] <Shamshir[MHA]> were will you be going?

01[16:45] <emily> TOP

01[16:45] <emily> they're everything I want to be

01[16:45] <emily> amazing stats

[16:45] <Shamshir[MHA]>

01[16:45] <emily> fun

01[16:45] <emily> friendly

01[16:45] <emily> large enough to be active

01[16:46] <emily> not like OSA

01[16:46] <emily> that's too small

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]> Ok how about you give MHA onw more chance

01[16:46] <emily> I'm a bit small for them NS wise though

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]> give me 2 weeks

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]> that's all i ask

01[16:46] <emily> I allready posted my app

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]>

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]> do you have a paradoxian to vouch for you?

[16:46] <Shamshir[MHA]> also withdraw it

01[16:46] <emily> no

01[16:47] <emily> plus

01[16:47] <emily> idk why

[16:47] <Shamshir[MHA]> what?

01[16:48] <emily> but MHA is a safetynet

01[16:48] <emily> I need it removed whilst I go fight some deamons

[16:48] <Shamshir[MHA]> is that all you see us as

01[16:48] <emily> *demons

[16:48] <Shamshir[MHA]> care to link me to your app?

01[16:48] <emily> you gonna sabotage it?

[16:50] <Shamshir[MHA]> you'll see

[16:50] <Shamshir[MHA]>

01[16:50] <emily>

01[16:50] <emily> they want my tech!

[16:50] <Shamshir[MHA]> found it

01[16:50] <emily> not exactly hidden

01[16:51] <emily> i will come to your house and kill you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

01[16:53] <emily> you've stressed me now!

[16:53] <Shamshir[MHA]> posted <3

01[16:53] <emily>

01[16:54] <emily> well

01[16:54] <emily> I'm not doing another solong post

01[16:54] <emily> so cyaround

[16:54] <Shamshir[MHA]> make your resignation post an i'll demask you

01[16:54] <emily> no I'm not posting

04[16:55] <Shamshir[MHA]> we deserve that much emily

01[16:55] <emily> there's nothing more to say

[16:55] <Shamshir[MHA]> say where your going and why your going please

01[16:56] <emily> no

01[16:56] <emily> i don't like goodbyes

[16:56] <Shamshir[MHA]> well say it is not goodbye but explain why your going to TOP

[16:56] <Shamshir[MHA]> people would appreciate it more than you just leaving

[16:56] <Shamshir[MHA]>

01[16:57] <emily> no

01[16:57] <emily> don't look back

01[16:57] <emily> plus I don't want to cause more strife in MHA

01[16:58] <emily> and ultimately whatever I say - it will

01[16:58] No such nick/channel

Session Close: Mon Jun 15 16:58:04 2009

As for your other allegations, I do not even want to dignify those with a response. i have not lied or falsified information as you know fine well. the only crime I have been guilty of is falling out of favor with myth. Something which, to be perfectly honest, the rest of the alliance takes far more to heart than do either myth or I.

Edited June 29, 2009 by emily

[Augustus Autumn]

Point-by-point for the sake of consistency. Again, my apologies for my persistence but I have one of those funny feelings that I'm not getting something.

- Engaging in unauthorized access of MHA's forums

As before, uncontested and whatnot. For the record, you and I both have said that this was a foolish thing to do.

- Procuring such access through using the password of a nation she nation sat and logging into that member's username

I don't really see how the method of entry to the forums is relevant to the sentence being passed unless something far more subversive than retrieving old access codes from your records is being done.

- Using the access she had to reveal information she would not otherwise be privildged to

Where was this said?

- Threatening to release more information as to become a more proper spy

Again, I don't recall seeing this said.

She wasn't forthcoming, and she had indeed left two weeks ago in bad faith. Neither are necessarily relevant, but they support the contrary to the claim that someone would perform the actions she had in good faith.

I indeed do not see them as being relevant otherwise a sentence would have been passed on her then.

Again, to summarize from the proven points, she is being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure because she gained access to your alliance forums and because of the perception that she was doing so with hostile intent?

Edit: Omission of the word "and".

Edited June 29, 2009 by Tokugawa Mitsukuni

[caligula]

( I don't see what your logs relevance has at all, or why vox was brought up ever, for that matter.) I see a whole lot of disagreeing with your former alliance and an unhealthy obsession with an individual.

Edited June 29, 2009 by caligula

[caligula]

Again, to summarize from the proven points, she is being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure because she gained access to your alliance forums because of the perception that she was doing so with hostile intent?

You're missing the point. She's being reduced to zero infrastructure because she spied.

She's admitted to being a spy.

The question then became whether that was too harsh for spying.

Examining the methods of how she gained access, her current actions, her actions leading up to it, and her current nations info bringing up OOC: a deceased MHA member /OOC for attention warrant the full blunt of MHA action.

I encourage anyone who feels that this is not unjust to do the same if they would like to be sentenced similarly.

It's quite effective.

In fact, if anyone insults OOC: the fallen hitchhiker's /OOC name I will personally attack them.

Edited June 29, 2009 by caligula

[crushtania]

If emily was honorable, she would not have aired our classified information for all the world to see.

If emily had no malicious intent, you would not be able to see sovereign, priviliged information.

If emily used an account that was not hers, to access information she was not meant to see for purposes contrary to the creed of MHA and have impugned its honor.

This smear campaign has done nothing but drive our name into the mud. This attack on MHA is an attack on me and everyone who proudly wears the MHA alliance affiliation and upholds the values that we strive so hard to maintain. We are a democracy and strive for transparency. Not at the expense of our security. You have breached it, emily and now you must suffer the consequences. I have never, in all my time of playing CN at the level of government that I have been playing for so long, have felt such a deception and betrayal on the scale of this. I have had coups attempted on me, been defrauded, been called a warmonger, incompetent, cretinous and all the pejoratives under the sun. But this is the worst feeling of all.

[emily]

well, other than your irrrelivant logs ( why on earth we didn't think you could be trusted with the information you were logging into on a members account whose password you got through nation sitting them months before, heavens knows, and I don't see what your logs relevance has at all, or why vox was brought up ever, for that matter.) I see a whole lot of nothing but an unhealthy obsession with an individual and drama whoring. GEE.

The logs demonstrate that MHA was aware I had access to their forums.

They also demonstrate that I did not leave in bad faith.

Myth I didn't leave MHA as part of some plot to discredit you. I have repeatedly stated I quite like you. We row - a lot, sometimes we push it to far - so what! I left MHA for my own reasons, then got dragged into yet another MHA !@#$%*ing session, and came to YOU privately to sort it out. I was completely honest with you, you could have asked me any questions you liked, but since it was already common knowledge which account I was using you did not even need to direct suctterbug where to look. I did not make any threats, blackmail you, or tell anyone else about the thread.

I think MHA is a great alliance, well known for it's friendliness and I love everyone it. I'm sorry you felt hurt that I left but that does not make me an enemy of the alliance. Treating me in the manner you are now doing, however, will have precisely that effect.

MHA has let itself down on this subject. You are better than this!

[emily]

If emily was honorable, she would not have aired our classified information for all the world to see.

If emily had no malicious intent, you would not be able to see sovereign, priviliged information.

If emily used an account that was not hers, to access information she was not meant to see for purposes contrary to the creed of MHA and have impugned its honor.

This smear campaign has done nothing but drive our name into the mud. This attack on MHA is an attack on me and everyone who proudly wears the MHA alliance affiliation and upholds the values that we strive so hard to maintain. We are a democracy and strive for transparency. Not at the expense of our security. You have breached it, emily and now you must suffer the consequences. I have never, in all my time of playing CN at the level of government that I have been playing for so long, have felt such a deception and betrayal on the scale of this. I have had coups attempted on me, been defrauded, been called a warmonger, incompetent, cretinous and all the pejoratives under the sun. But this is the worst feeling of all.

I am deeply sorry for that, but MHA backed me into a corner. This thread did not start out like this......

you cannot attack someone with all these lies and not expect them to defend themselves with the truth.

Again. MHA is [was] better than this!

[caligula]

The logs demonstrate that MHA was aware I had access to their forums.

They also demonstrate that I did not leave in bad faith.

Myth I didn't leave MHA as part of some plot to discredit you. I have repeatedly stated I quite like you. We row - a lot, sometimes we push it to far - so what! I left MHA for my own reasons, then got dragged into yet another MHA !@#$%*ing session, and came to YOU privately to sort it out. I was completely honest with you, you could have asked me any questions you liked, but since it was already common knowledge which account I was using you did not even need to direct suctterbug where to look. I did not make any threats, blackmail you, or tell anyone else about the thread.

I think MHA is a great alliance, well known for it's friendliness and I love everyone it. I'm sorry you felt hurt that I left but that does not make me an enemy of the alliance. Treating me in the manner you are now doing, however, will have precisely that effect.

MHA has let itself down on this subject. You are better than this!

No where in your log is there any acknowledgement that you had access to a ********'s account, or our forums. NO where.

You stated you were being given info but then later admitted to Scutter that you infact were not being given it but finding it for yourself.

You're completely contradicting yourself.

Edited June 29, 2009 by caligula

[Authur]

They've never been found.

We believe a long-time member had been framed. Whether it was an admin or who it was, it can't be for certain.

Either way, I don't see the relevance.

It has relevance if true because it sets a precedence which appears to be why it was mentioned in the first place.

Ordinarily I would not have given it much thought but after it was brought up by numerous individuals at different times in this thread without response it seemed a bit suspicious. Given your response though there doesn't appear to be much merit to those suspicions.

Carry on...

[scutterbug]

The logs demonstrate that MHA was aware I had access to their forums.

They also demonstrate that I did not leave in bad faith.

Myth I didn't leave MHA as part of some plot to discredit you. I have repeatedly stated I quite like you. We row - a lot, sometimes we push it to far - so what! I left MHA for my own reasons, then got dragged into yet another MHA !@#$%*ing session, and came to YOU privately to sort it out. I was completely honest with you, you could have asked me any questions you liked, but since it was already common knowledge which account I was using you did not even need to direct suctterbug where to look. I did not make any threats, blackmail you, or tell anyone else about the thread.

I think MHA is a great alliance, well known for it's friendliness and I love everyone it. I'm sorry you felt hurt that I left but that does not make me an enemy of the alliance. Treating me in the manner you are now doing, however, will have precisely that effect.

MHA has let itself down on this subject. You are better than this!

Bit hard to be dragged into it when you made the OP take a good look at urself before accusing us. For the record kowalski found you out not me i merely got redirected to track it down.

[emily]

No where in your log is there any acknowledgement that you had access to a ********'s account, or our forums. NO where.

You stated you were being given info but then later admitted to Scutter that you infact were not being given it but finding it for yourself.

You're completely contradicting yourself.

no....

I confirmed to scutter that I was being given it, please re-read the thread.

Are you perhaps only seeing what you want to see here?

[emily]

Bit hard to be dragged into it when you made the OP take a good look at urself before accusing us. For the record kowalski found you out not me i merely got redirected to track it down.

lol - Kowalski knew for months! you found out because myth directed you to look for it!!!!!

[WorkingClassRuler]

...And once again, it's all Myth's fault.

[scutterbug]

lol - Kowalski knew for months! you found out because myth directed you to look for it!!!!!

Soryr where did i mention myth.

As you seem unable to read.

KOWALSKI RE DIRECTED ME

[Augustus Autumn]

You're missing the point. She's being reduced to zero infrastructure because she spied.

She's admitted to being a spy.

The question then became whether that was too harsh for spying.

Examining the methods of how she gained access, her current actions, her actions leading up to it, and her current nations info bringing up OOC: a deceased MHA member /OOC for attention warrant the full blunt of MHA action.

I encourage anyone who feels that this is not unjust to do the same if they would like to be sentenced similarly.

It's quite effective.

In fact, if anyone insults OOC: the fallen hitchhiker's /OOC name I will personally attack them.

So what precisely is the prescribed punishment for the simple infraction of gaining unauthorized access to your alliance's forums? Because, from what you wrote, it appears that the reasoning behind her being reduced to Zero-Infrastructure has more to do with the perception of ill intent (which has still not been proven) and her referencing of Denzin (which has not been alluded to until now) in a negative light (which I point out has also not been demonstrated in the logs).

As for your threats, they do neither you nor your alliance credit. I'm not entirely sure who they are directed at but perhaps its best to raise the level of discourse back to previous respectful levels.

If emily was honorable, she would not have aired our classified information for all the world to see.

If emily had no malicious intent, you would not be able to see sovereign, priviliged information.

If emily used an account that was not hers, to access information she was not meant to see for purposes contrary to the creed of MHA and have impugned its honor.

This smear campaign has done nothing but drive our name into the mud. This attack on MHA is an attack on me and everyone who proudly wears the MHA alliance affiliation and upholds the values that we strive so hard to maintain. We are a democracy and strive for transparency. Not at the expense of our security. You have breached it, emily and now you must suffer the consequences. I have never, in all my time of playing CN at the level of government that I have been playing for so long, have felt such a deception and betrayal on the scale of this. I have had coups attempted on me, been defrauded, been called a warmonger, incompetent, cretinous and all the pejoratives under the sun. But this is the worst feeling of all.

The OP was a request, in the open, for a fair trial. The first response from a Hitchhiker comes across as being impolitic and, in her words, "he was being a bit dismissive and falesly representing what had been said". Escalation, especially when Emily was basically told that the matter was closed and no recourse was possible, became nigh-inevitable very very quickly. Those with nothing left to lose tend to think only of harming those who harmed them. For what its worth your moral outrage and hurt is justified but I cannot think that this was the point of this entire conversation.

...And once again, it's all Myth's fault.

There are multiple persons at fault here, but placing blame is clearly not productive. The search for the truth, on the other hand, is always productive.

[emily]

...And once again, it's all Myth's fault.

*sighs*

I have no idea, I doubt myth was the mastermind behind it he doesn't seen that devious IMO. My only concern with him in this thread, is like you, his willingness to take every action I undertake as a sign of malice, even when it is clearly not.

Now please, stop trying to mud sling with your lies about my past in MHA. You may not like me. I can live with that. But I was a good member and did everything I cold to remain loyal inspite of your repeated attacks against me. What did you think I would just keep taking it without ever fighting back?

I told you again and again you were being unfair, but you had already set your mind against me. You left me with no choice.

Now how about you actually consider the truth of that you have done here and admit/apologize for your part in it? I can still be queried.

[WorkingClassRuler]

There are multiple persons at fault here, but placing blame is clearly not productive. The search for the truth, on the other hand, is always productive.

Oh, I thought the would indicate my sarcasm. Emily has a habit of blaming everything on Myth or turning any disagreement into something Myth has supposedly done, even if it's irrelevant to the original disagreement. I have seen it countless times, and was responding to Emily's latest claim that MHA only found out about her spying because Myth directed Scutterbug to do so - despite this not being the truth. So, once again Emily was trying to turn this situation into an attack of Myth.

[emily]

I apologize - I had assumed Scutterbugs discovery of my access to the forum was as a result of me telling myth I had seen the thread approximately 1 hour earlier. Must have just been a coincidence?

[Augustus Autumn]

Oh, I thought the would indicate my sarcasm. Emily has a habit of blaming everything on Myth or turning any disagreement into something Myth has supposedly done, even if it's irrelevant to the original disagreement. I have seen it countless times, and was responding to Emily's latest claim that MHA only found out about her spying because Myth directed Scutterbug to do so - despite this not being the truth. So, once again Emily was trying to turn this situation into an attack of Myth.

Ah, my apologies at misunderstanding the sarcasm. I tend to be a tad dense in the earlier hours of my mornings.

[Sylveste]

Trial? Name me one other alliance that gives trials to none members? You can't because there isn't one, only members get trials, and she isn't one. A person who has no right to access our forum, accessed our forum. We took this information to the relivent people and ask to ZI her, they agreed.

End of story, anything else is her trying to get more attention, and if this sounds bad, sorry, but its no-one else's buissness, the only reason you even know about it, is that Emily came on here to get sympathy and attention.

Personally I think most of you are just sturing, if it was happening in your alliance you would agree with what we are doing, but because its not, you want to sully our name and take shots at us, and when this happens to your alliances i'll remember this moment and remind you of what you have been saying.

Edited June 29, 2009 by Sylveste