Would you say the karma war made you support NPO

[Neo Uruk]

punish them for playing the game they way they thought was fun? ohh SORRY!!!

The way they played ruined it for anyone trying to play.

You can't use the NPO's ball without them getting mad and throwng it at you before you go home.

EDIT:

you can re-gain friends look at VE & GGA they are ok with each other.... Also who needs sanctioned whom will soon tear each other apart when u can find good allies in red team and try and fix those relations. Id rather have 10 small alliance allies then 2 big ones. Big alliances are less reliable small alliances have more honor & pride. IMO

How do you know VE and GGA's inner workings? You're certainly not a member of either.

Sanctions mean a lot. If you get a shiny flag, people will know that you have power. Totally works, true story. But being number 1 is many people's goal, so yes, it does mean something.

Red team alliances are there mainly to spite NPO. They claim otherwise, but that's it. If the small alliances are more respectable and carry themselves in a way you like, sure I'd rather have them. Most small alliances that remain active, however, tend to make juvenile mistakes and contradict themselves (such as GDI.)

And another edit for spelling

Edited June 18, 2009 by Rey the Great

[thenb]

It makes KARMA look like a bunch of bullies. Trust me, I joined the game in the middle of it.

[naamah]

Oh wow, another 'how do you feel about NPO/karma' type thread

It made me hate the over 9000 different threads about NPO & the war. New ones pop up ever day it seems, saying pretty much all the same crap as the old ones. I am looking forward to the war being over just so I dont have to see it anymore.

[Xiphosis]

The skew in this topic makes it worthless. You need to learn some subtlety if you're going to give propaganda a go.

[KenoDurkster]

The way they played ruined it for anyone trying to play.

You can't use the NPO's ball without them getting mad and throwng it at you before you go home.

EDIT:

How do you know VE and GGA's inner workings? You're certainly not a member of either.

Sanctions mean a lot. If you get a shiny flag, people will know that you have power. Totally works, true story. But being number 1 is may people's goal, so yes, it does mean something.

Red team alliances are there mainly to spite NPO. They claim otherwise, but that's it. If the small alliances are more respectable and carry themselves ina way you like, sure I'd rather have them. Most small alliances that remain active, however, tend to make juvenile mistakes and contradict themselves (such as GDI.)

ok so you get a shiny flag and you got your power what do you do with power? use it NPO did in the way they thought was right they lost that power. What if (this is a what if and off topic) TOP,Sparta,MHA act like NPO x 3. Would you say the Karma war was just a ploy to take over and was made to be seen as a effort to bring freedom to all? (this is just to see what personally you would say)

Also with the smaller alliances yes those reds were there for that very reason you stated but opinions can be changed very easily in many cases. NPO apoligized for it's passed onr ed team and even changed there doctrine. Germany had a bloody holocaust but look at them now friends with most if not all the world. The Past means very little unless you have a personal agenda. Karma was just that a personal vendetta & power grabbing. two wrongs don't make a right. Revenge only breed more revenge. many ways of putting it.

[Vhalen]

Personally i believe that this war may have helped NPO's PR greatly as once you hit rockbottom you can only go up ;P. So really in the long run NPO wins the war of Relations. Also Karma Forces more so look like bullies for the gangbang.

Well, you could also stay at rock bottom.

punish them for playing the game they way they thought was fun? ohh SORRY!!!

Apparently punishing them for that is Karma "playing the game they way they thought was fun." Since I put it in that context, I suppose we no longer have any problem with it? Rey covered it pretty well already, though:

The way they played ruined it for anyone trying to play.

You can't use the NPO's ball without them getting mad and throwng it at you before you go home.

EDIT:

How do you know VE and GGA's inner workings? You're certainly not a member of either.

Sanctions mean a lot. If you get a shiny flag, people will know that you have power. Totally works, true story. But being number 1 is many people's goal, so yes, it does mean something.

Red team alliances are there mainly to spite NPO. They claim otherwise, but that's it. If the small alliances are more respectable and carry themselves in a way you like, sure I'd rather have them. Most small alliances that remain active, however, tend to make juvenile mistakes and contradict themselves (such as GDI.)

And another edit for spelling

(Not that large alliances don't make juvenile mistakes or contradict themselves. I suspect it's just overlooked more often precisely because they're large.)

[Vilien]

It makes KARMA look like a bunch of bullies. Trust me, I joined the game in the middle of it.

Which probably explains why you believe that load of crap.

[KenoDurkster]

if Karma believes this is the way they wanna play the game and enjoy it thats fine. If holding grudges and masking Power grabbing with lies is there way of fun i have no problem with it.

Wether or not it was intentional or not yes This was a power grab ;P as you can see the karma sides gained the power.

[King Srqt]

No it has not.

[Neo Uruk]

ok so you get a shiny flag and you got your power what do you do with power? use it NPO did in the way they thought was right they lost that power. What if (this is a what if and off topic) TOP,Sparta,MHA act like NPO x 3. Would you say the Karma war was just a ploy to take over and was made to be seen as a effort to bring freedom to all? (this is just to see what personally you would say)

If MHA, TOP, and Sparta abuse their power I forsee another Karma War for them, if not an immediate try for power against the other two by one of them.

Also with the smaller alliances yes those reds were there for that very reason you stated but opinions can be changed very easily in many cases. NPO apoligized for it's passed onr ed team and even changed there doctrine. Karma was just that a personal vendetta & power grabbing. two wrongs don't make a right. Revenge only breed more revenge. many ways of putting it.

No, opinions of a monster who has crushed thousands of nations don't get changed with a simple "Oops, sorry. We'll just retract this doctrine without accepting our other terms and move along." And no, Karma isn't a power grab. It's far from it. Most Karma alliances are trying to punish the NPO for past mistakes and possibly even right some of their own. You, sir, seem to lack a wide view of politics OR support the NPO blindly.

EDIT: And since you seem to believe a power grab is anything that puts you in power, how do you feel about GPA and other neutrals being sanctioned?

(Not that large alliances don't make juvenile mistakes or contradict themselves. I suspect it's just overlooked more often precisely because they're large.)

No, they're excused because they make up for it later.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Rey the Great

[KenoDurkster]

No, opinions of a monster who has crushed thousands of nations don't get changed with a simple "Oops, sorry. We'll just retract this doctrine without accepting our other terms and move along." And no, Karma isn't a power grab. It's far from it. Most Karma alliances are trying to punish the NPO for past mistakes and possibly even right some of their own. You, sir, seem to lack a wide view of politics OR support the NPO blindly.

Again what happened to germany WW2 happened almost exactly to NPO they got attacked by the world and destroyed completely and even split up. But in the end relations got better after people instead of thinking of Germany just think "hitler" so NPO as an allaince will be forgiven just not it's leadership.

Nor do i support NPO blindly really i don't like them i hate what they did in Vision war (i was in CSN at the time) it's just the fact that people would say it's ok for us to have revenge and destroy and alliance but say they have the justification for doing so because of ones past... your basicly setting youself up for distater.. your no better then NPO other then the fact your replacing what bad figure with another less bad but really no better one.

EDIT: GPA gaining the sanction was just an un-intentional yet probably forseen result from the power grab. GPA gaiend it through being neutral had they joiend a side they would not have it. They played the game smart and were rewarded through others downfalls.

Edited June 18, 2009 by KenoDurkster

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

NPO's PR has hit rockbottom and they've brought out the shovels to dig even farther.

[Haflinger]

Dear Lord, another one of these.

Soon, there will be a poll posted with "Does Cybernations need more polls about the NPO peace terms?" as the question.

[Neo Uruk]

Again what happened to germany WW2 happened almost exactly to NPO they got attacked by the world and destroyed completely and even split up. But in the end relations got better after people instead of thinking of Germany just think "hitler" so NPO as an allaince will be forgiven just not it's leadership.

No, Germany had to work to get that reputation. So far all NPO has done is sent members to be "defiant' or BAWWWWWWW about how Karma's giving them reps.

Nor do i support NPO blindly really i don't like them i hate what they did in Vision war (i was in CSN at the time) it's just the fact that people would say it's ok for us to have revenge and destroy and alliance but say they have the justification for doing so because of ones past...

The terms presented to the Hegemony alliances have all been possible. That's why they were ate up quickly. Right now it's just three or four (I htink) alliances left fighting, and three are being dragged through the mud by NPO's inability to sign terms because they're "too harsh", while NPO has tossed alliances aside like ragdolls and not cared.

your basicly setting youself up for distater.. your no better then NPO other then the fact your replacing what bad figure with another less bad but really no better one.

The "lesser of two evils" route doesn't work in this scenario because Karma has worked to make sure that most if not all alliances coming out for the better are doing what's best for the game. The only reason anyone would need to go to war to topple a monster again is if some unseen power comes into rule and makes itself a new NPO, in which we will have a second Karam-esque scenario.

EDIT: GPA gaining the sanction was just an un-intentional yet probably forseen result from the power grab. GPA gaiend it through being neutral had they joiend a side they would not have it. They played the game smart and were rewarded through others downfalls.

Neutrality is a good way to play and is a viable strategy, however I'd rather go through war to protect my beliefs and friendships.

[mykep]

NPO's PR has hit rockbottom and they've brought out the shovels to dig even farther.

Well put.

50 Karma points to you.

[Heracles the Great]

So the NPO starts an aggressive war in an attempt to curbstomp yet another alliance, they commit a massive screw up by attacking during negotiations, get destroyed by Karma, then still go about their old ways trying to dictate terms and claim they didn't start this war and that Karma trapped them, et al - and somehow they gained positive PR in all of this?

Sorry - but if you don't like some of the people in Karma, that's fine, and you can think whatever you want about Karma - but I struggle to imagine how anyone came out of this war thinking better of NPO than they did before the war started.

But maybe that's just me...

[KenoDurkster]

The "lesser of two evils" route doesn't work in this scenario because Karma has worked to make sure that most if not all alliances coming out for the better are doing what's best for the game. The only reason anyone would need to go to war to topple a monster again is if some unseen power comes into rule and makes itself a new NPO, in which we will have a second Karam-esque scenario.

who are you to decide whats best for the game. You have no right to say that at all. this war has ruined 1000's of nations at the price of saving maybe 4-5 small alliances for this year. You guys had a good objective you guys just let it get clouded by not being more open and in your wanting to not be a permanet bloc you let organization go to hell making it that when a person like me asks "why did you do it" there are multiple answers all pointing in diffrent directions.

Note: Bolded words in my response are opinions of mine from what i have seen

all I am sure many of us want is 1 official thread stating what every karma alliance wanted from this war. if you can provide that ill never question karma again.

[Gruthenia]

So the NPO starts an aggressive war in an attempt to curbstomp yet another alliance, they commit a massive screw up by attacking during negotiations, get destroyed by Karma, then still go about their old ways trying to dictate terms and claim they didn't start this war and that Karma trapped them, et al - and somehow they gained positive PR in all of this?

Sorry - but if you don't like some of the people in Karma, that's fine, and you can think whatever you want about Karma - but I struggle to imagine how anyone came out of this war thinking better of NPO than they did before the war started.

But maybe that's just me...

People here are quick to forget or just never even gave a crap what NPO did in the first place.

[Neo Uruk]

who are you to decide whats best for the game. You have no right to say that at all. this war has ruined 1000's of nations at the price

I'm just going to stop you right there and say talk to the countless nations NPO forced out.

[KenoDurkster]

what NPO did was the past.. according to some of you guys Past needs to be forgotten as it's good karma?

Article 8.

With the granting of peace to IRON, IRON agrees to grant peace to all nations on Planet Bob. All existing wars, PZI lists, EZI lists, and ZI lists are to be considered null, void, and waived. Clean the slate. It’s considered good karma to forgive old grudges. That way you can be the happy drunk everybody laughs with instead of the mean drunk everybody laughs at.

I see hypocrisy, I smell Hypocrisy, I hear Hypocrisy so therefore it must be HYPOCRISY.

I'm just going to stop you right there and say talk to the countless nations NPO forced out.

You can not "force an nation out" they can re-roll under new ruler name & new nation name. and how are you to know there true identity? Now you can force a person into hiding. But to quit the game no thats the own players choice because they lost the game.

Edited June 18, 2009 by KenoDurkster

[Neo Uruk]

what NPO did was the past.. according to some of you guys Past needs to be forgotten as it's good karma?

Article 8.

With the granting of peace to IRON, IRON agrees to grant peace to all nations on Planet Bob. All existing wars, PZI lists, EZI lists, and ZI lists are to be considered null, void, and waived. Clean the slate. It’s considered good karma to forgive old grudges. That way you can be the happy drunk everybody laughs with instead of the mean drunk everybody laughs at.

I see hypocrisy, I smell Hypocrisy, I hear Hypocrisy so therefore it must be HYPOCRISY.

No, until NPO makes us believe that they've changed, they're still the NPO that did everything. You referenced to WWII Germany. Germany had to actually use diplomacy and good manners to make people believe they wouldn't invade half the globe again.

You can not "force an nation out" they can re-roll under new ruler name & new nation name. and how are you to know there true identity? Now you can force a person into hiding. But to quit the game no thats the own players choice because they lost the game.

You can't force someone to do anything, mentally. You can, however, hold someone underwater until they run out of air. You didn't force them to run out of air, you just held them at bay while their supply ran out. Silly them, using resources while they were being drained.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Rey the Great

[Lord Boris]

I dislike NPO about the same now as I did before the war. About the only real change in perception I have is an increase in dislike of a few other alliances for various reasons (ODN, FOK, MK, etc.)

[KenoDurkster]

No, until NPO makes us believe that they've changed, they're still the NPO that did everything. You referenced to WWII Germany. Germany had to actually use diplomacy and good manners to make people believe they wouldn't invade half the globe again.

You can't force someone to do anything, mentally. You can, however, hold someone underwater until they run out of air. You didn't force them to run out of air, you just held them at bay while their supply ran out. Silly them, using resources while they were being drained.

that metaphore does not work since once you re-roll under completely new info your no longer being held underwater your just holding your words & the people that know who you are's words very tightly.

[Neo Uruk]

that metaphore does not work since once you re-roll under completely new info your no longer being held underwater your just holding your words & the people that know who you are's words very tightly.

Not if you get on IRC or forums.

[KainIIIC]

About the same. Karma is no better than NPO, and maybe worse since many of them are hypocrites and liars. NPO acted like any hegemon would do: try to maintain and expand its power, it's human nature. Look at Sparta; this is exactly what they're trying to do (but I don't think they can maintain it) as they conveniently backstabbed NPO by breaking all of the treaties, joined the winning side, and attacked NPO; and i'm 100% positive that TOP and MHA do not mind being in the top 3 spots either. What do you think a GOONS, a FAN, an \m/ or a LUE dominated world would have been any better? (hell no, it would've been much worse). Sure, NPO technically started the war by attacking OV using evidence (true or untrue) of 'spying'. But is that what the war is about? hell no. You just hate NPO and the fact that they were #1 for so long, or because (as in C&G's case) because you were destroyed by NPO in the past. Sure, you can claim you're upholding some kind of just principles, but, as far as any sane observer can see, you've taken every page out of the NPO playbook and used it against them. All while maintaining some aura of "righteousness", which is why I call you hypocrites and liars.

Now, I'm not saying NPO didn't deserve to be destroyed. By all means they did. But get rid of this holier-than-thou approach. It sickens me, and many others to my stomach.