RL Military Vets or Current Service Members...

[Ryan Greenberg]

No comparisson of RL to CN. RL definitly.

Anyway, I haven't served in the army since I'm not old enough yet, but I would like to join the American Army or Navy. If not that mayber the Israeli Defense Force since I know some American Jews who also joined the IDF.

[enderland]

I served in WW2.

I was in the Bosnian Serb Army. That guy who shot down the F-117? Totally me.

Classy.

[Walt Schmidt]

The strategy that exists in this game is incredibly basic.

I will disagree, it's anything but basic and simple.

Are we attempting to maximize an alliance NS? Are we attempting to maximize an individual's NS?

Are we going the route of a support individual who has little or no combat casualties and yet arrived at an NS that a significant? Or are we going the route of a line individual whose regular increases in NS is the result of his military achievements.

Are we considering tech raiding, what kind of resource ring are we a member of, which improvements, which wonders...

Obviously, your mileage varies.

[nc1701]

Hey Walt Schmidt, I bet you don't remember me, but hey! (I tried to recruit you long ago:()

I'm young still and haven't served in the military so I can't directly comment, but I will say that I do agree that people's real life knowledge and ethics, be they military or civilian, do follow them into the game and significantly effect how they see things. In my experiences, real life lawyers tend to enjoy lawyering their way through the game, creating complex arguments and writing walls of text. Real life soldiers often angle to the "shut up and play" mentality where they interact with others and enjoy building their nations, but dislike arguing on forums or debating internal politics etc. While of course the High school and college students often lean towards just screwing around on IRC, trolling, and writing our opinions about everything. Obviously those are massive generalizations, there are many exceptions, and the fact that soldiers tend to be older could be the difference as much as anything that came from the military.

My point of view then is one from a position of having played the game (my NS at one time was a little over 26K with the current fracas taking me to a low of below 500) to see how I can grow my nation and what that growth would allow me to accomplish, while leaving the politics and the military planning up to others. I find the intricacies of this game such that they allow me a respite from my 11 hour work-days and weekends of being a national level Department of Veteran Affairs accredited Veterans Service Officer.

In all honesty in other circumstances I might suggest that some of planet Bob's residence should... get a life.

I will share a number of my opinions but first a simple question.

Is there any accurate objective documentation maintained anywhere concerning who did what to whom, and who did it first?

And a simple statement about my opinions.

From my perspective, NPO has: policed tech-raiding in the red sphere; maintain its various other-alliance agreements; when necessary, fought a war to win a war; has made statements such as 'do that and you'll get ZI'd' and has been true to its statement; and for us grunts has provided one heck of accurate objective training coupled with the ability to refer to experienced-based subjective what-we've-found-best information.

And, and that's a big and, to those not in our alliance we all perceive in a very negative fashion that I don't quite understand -- a lot of my rationale for asking the above 'simple question.'

As for your direct questing regarding objective information, no there isn't and I don't think this game would be very fun if there was. Sure there is an objective truth, but it's deeply buried and completely irrelevant by now. Besides i doubt seeing a truly objective time line of events would matter to most people, does it really matter who attacked first or what their intentions were? What matters are those who felt they were wronged and vowed to wreak vengeance upon those who wronged them, when you are enemies like that who throws the first punch is meaningless.

As for your view of the NPO, it's certainly a correct and valid one, but it can be valid while still leaving others valid reasons to dislike NPO. A lot of the people who dislike NPO today were in alliances defeated by NPO in the last several years, including alliances like GPA, FAN, GOLD, LUE, and others attacked long before you even joined the game. Just those 4 alliances probably account for 2,000 nations who feel NPO wronged them, many moved on or quit the game, but others vowed vengeance, or at least continued to harbor hatred and resentment. Then of course others were just jealous, after all everybody wants to be #1, NPO was in an unassailable position, demonizing them and building on the bad sentiments from those NPO previously defeated is a brilliant way of doing that isn't it?

As for me personally, I just like to hate the number one guy and that was NPO for as long as I've been playing. (I think it may be genetic...Whenever I play Risk with my family we have a tendency to triple team whoever looks like their winning, makes the games last forever:(). Nothing personal, but I am aware NPO will come back for vengeance if allowed, that's why your getting such harsh terms, because people are still scared of you.

CN's a harsh, harsh world.

I will disagree, it's anything but basic and simple.

Are we attempting to maximize an alliance NS? Are we attempting to maximize an individual's NS?

Are we going the route of a support individual who has little or no combat casualties and yet arrived at an NS that a significant? Or are we going the route of a line individual whose regular increases in NS is the result of his military achievements.

Are we considering tech raiding, what kind of resource ring are we a member of, which improvements, which wonders...

Obviously, your mileage varies.

Obviously large scale alliance coordination is a very complex task, but the actual game mechanics are not very hard. I almost completely solved them last summer, with only a few minor changes or surprises since then. In terms of maximizing NS (or preferably military combat potential, at least that's what I'm aiming for), it's really just simple math sure it depends on what resources you have, but all that does is alter the math a little bit. War is of course a little harder to predict, but still it's really just a product of resources (wonders, tech, infra, military, and money), coordination (try update blitzing with two guys on IRC, it's a beautiful thing), and activity (If your on when your enemy attacks to rebuy troops, being on at update, etc.).

Based on those three things it's easy to predict the outcome of a battle or war. Cybernations may be more complex than checkers, but it's certainly easier to play than chess is, yes there are a lot of variables, but that doesn't make CN terribly hard to play from an in game perspective.

[Kilkenny]

And just for old time sake Artillery > Tankers > infantry

1st Cav 2-12 B and D co

There fixed that for you.

Currently in the US Army, 16 year (end of July) vet, with multiple Iraq Deployements, Bosnia and Kosovo as well. Unit is deploying again end of this year, I drew the Rear Detachment NCOIC job this time. 3HBCT 3ID SLEDGEHAMMER!!

While there are certain parallels between RL military and this current war is still doesn't add up. Blood > Pixels anyday. That said, it is surprising at how some people react to attacks here as if they are RL attacks.

[Margrave]

United States Marine Corps, currently serving aboard Camp Pendleton, will be deploying to Afghanistan in November, looking forward to the challenge.

[Alfred von Tirpitz]

Reservist Now, had my war. CN has nothing whatsoever to compare to the field.

Hmm, that may not be entirely correct when you think of it a bit more.

[Merrie Melodies]

You are correct sir blood > pixels but strategy while different in both realms is still valid and those of us that have served tend to have a bit of a different take on that. But I will await the OP to come back and clarify his meaning. His second response led me to believe that he was speaking of current goings on in CN not in RL and just looking for a perspective from other people with similar background in military service.

And just for old time sake Tankers > infantry

1st Cav 2-12 B and D co

sorry tried to edit original ended up doubling my bad.

Hehe, 13Bravo here King of Battle. Artillery > all

[gstills22]

i was airbourne infantry out of fort benning well really out of camp fogarty for a while got medically discharged becuz of my knee..i was suppose to be in afghan 11 bravo 1/200 air bourne ;D

Edited June 18, 2009 by gstills22Fuhrer

[Ebony Wings]

Now, I know I'm not the only former squid around here...so where are the rest of the Navy pukes at?

inb4 Sponge

[Walt Schmidt]

Real life took me away for the last 2 1/2 days. Let's see what has the been posted and where we are right now.

[Walt Schmidt]

While there are certain parallels between RL military and this current war is still doesn't add up. Blood > Pixels anyday. That said, it is surprising at how some people react to attacks here as if they are RL attacks.

While only a game, I bring to Cyber Nations the mindset of someone who has served in military and did see combat.

For me that includes understanding the very negative aspect of carrying a grudge.

[Walt Schmidt]

Hey Walt Schmidt, I bet you don't remember me, but hey! (I tried to recruit you long ago

With your ID, not remembering you would be... illogical! [ Smile ]

In my experiences, real life lawyers... Real life soldiers... High school and college students...

I could not have said it better myself. And while the current war has me realizing the benefit to lurk in the forums, it's a shame that real-life does not provide the time.

Still, perhaps a little bit of what could use up a lot of time would not be a bad thing. This especially, if there were more posts of the same nature as yours.

As for... views of the NPO...

Again, I could not agree more. Now if we could just have more discussions that would revolve around the actions behind what you summarize instead of rants for which the term exaggeration is an understatement.

...the actual game mechanics are not very hard... it's easy to predict the outcome of a battle or war. Cybernations may be more complex than checkers, but it's certainly easier to play than chess is, yes there are a lot of variables, but that doesn't make CN terribly hard to play from an in game perspective.

Giving the variables that do exist within the game that are controllable, and the variables that are out of your control (E. G., That which affects you that others do or you choose not to do) for me this game has enough complexities to keep my interest perked.

[Walt Schmidt]

Let me ask us a question...

What can we do to assist those in command or in authority to resolve the current conflict?

My definition of resolve includes recognition of what has occurred during this war, and an understanding of what deal negotiators mean when they use the phrase: that item is a deal-breaker.

[Un4Gvn1]

Let me ask us a question...

What can we do to assist those in command or in authority to resolve the current conflict?

My definition of resolve includes recognition of what has occurred during this war, and an understanding of what deal negotiators mean when they use the phrase: that item is a deal-breaker.

I will watch closely to see if an answer appears; when/if it does I'll volunteer to assist.

The resolution to this conflict seems to be something that is not wanted by either side at this point.

Your premise in the opening post is very interesting. Thanks for the thread; though I'm not military I'll read and hope to learn a few things.

[Yggdrazil]

Alert Company

4th Bn. 39 Inf.

9th Inf.Div.

FSB Tombstone; Republic of Viet Nam

Your alliance will not be allowed peace until you have lost sanction.The terms given earlier were designed to do that.Until the lynch mob is satisfied and the NPO has lost enough pixels, rationally and mature methodology have been replaced with their anti-thesis.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Yggdrazil

[juanveldez]

9 years in and did a tour in Iraq back 06-07 back then it was a free for all now if you fart wrong they throw everything at ya that they can.

[Walt Schmidt]

I will watch closely to see if an answer appears; when/if it does I'll volunteer to assist. The resolution to this conflict seems to be something that is not wanted by either side at this point.

I hope I speak for all when I say we look forward to the determination of what will help and your assistance in resolving what needs to be resolved.

However, as a member of NPO based on my knowledge (for what that knowledge is worth) I see every indication that we, NPO, do want a resolution... and have wanted it for some time.

Clearly, your mileage varies and I would be interested in hearing the reasons behind your position.

Edited June 20, 2009 by Walt Schmidt

[Walt Schmidt]

Your alliance will not be allowed peace until you have lost sanction. The terms given earlier were designed to do that. Until the lynch mob is satisfied and the NPO has lost enough pixels, rationally and mature methodology have been replaced with their anti-thesis.

Welcome Home! [ <--- That's a Vietnam veteran thing ]

Be it that I could find a way to disagree with you...

[juanveldez]

well I cant say much for RoK's position as I am not party to it, but from what I have read in the past of NPO's dealings, CN has been a world where like now in Iraq you couldnt fart without NPO giving you permission to do so.

to that end I see commonality between the two.

as for NPO wanting terms and what not I have only seen the one post about them refusing what was offered, and do not know if another offer to them was made.

[Lance]

Now, I know I'm not the only former squid around here...so where are the rest of the Navy pukes at?

inb4 Sponge

Active Duty Navy. I have served aboard 2 Trident submarines as a Sonar Tech. I now am an Instructor at the Navy Dive School in Panama City, FL. Last weekend I hit my 9 year mark and am getting out in 50 days.

The only thing I have used from my real life military experience is the ability to make things sound much better than they are. ( IE: Janitor = Custodial Engineer) Which is a big help when you are trying to recruit.

[Kilkenny]

Active Duty Navy. I have served aboard 2 Trident submarines as a Sonar Tech. I now am an Instructor at the Navy Dive School in Panama City, FL. Last weekend I hit my 9 year mark and am getting out in 50 days.

The only thing I have used from my real life military experience is the ability to make things sound much better than they are. ( IE: Janitor = Custodial Engineer) Which is a big help when you are trying to recruit.

LOL. SOOOO true.

[Kilkenny]

I hope I speak for all when I say we look forward to the determination of what will help and your assistance in resolving what needs to be resolved.

However, as a member of NPO based on my knowledge (for what that knowledge is worth) I see every indication that we, NPO, do want a resolution... and have wanted it for some time.

Clearly, your mileage varies and I would be interested in hearing the reasons behind your position.

Thing is Karma does not want a resolution at this time. The Peace Terms were worded in such a way that only a fool would accept them, and if accepted would cripple NPO for quite a while. That is the goal of Karam, to cripple NPO for an extended time frame to keep NPO from building back up and crushing them. What goes around comes around, and Karma knows it will come back around to them.

[nc1701]

I could not have said it better myself. And while the current war has me realizing the benefit to lurk in the forums, it's a shame that real-life does not provide the time.

Still, perhaps a little bit of what could use up a lot of time would not be a bad thing. This especially, if there were more posts of the same nature as yours.

Indeed, I think most less active players don't realize just how important the forums and IRC can be until they fall victim to war or hate created on them. Very often disputes will be be started by things as minor as personality conflicts, that gradually escalate up into world conflicts.

Thanks:) I try to only post when I have something of consequence to say, just upping post count really isn't worth anything, I've found I can keep up with the forum a lot better if I just skim over short spammy posts and am careful about picking threads that will provide some level of interest. Trying to read everything here would be a full time job, but as long as I keep up with important things I'm much better informed about what's going on.

Giving the variables that do exist within the game that are controllable, and the variables that are out of your control (E. G., That which affects you that others do or you choose not to do) for me this game has enough complexities to keep my interest perked.

Oh it certainly keeps my interest perked as well, but really only for the multiplayer interacting with others politically aspect. I certainly would never play CN against computer opponents as that would get very boring very quickly, the people are what make this game interesting, not so much the actual game screen itself.

Let me ask us a question...

What can we do to assist those in command or in authority to resolve the current conflict?

My definition of resolve includes recognition of what has occurred during this war, and an understanding of what deal negotiators mean when they use the phrase: that item is a deal-breaker.

Really I think both sides need to decide they want peace, currently we have a situation where both sides claim to want peace, but in reality seem much less eager for peace and certainly not eager to compromise.

Relate it to the Israel Palestine situation, with Karma being Israel and NPO being Palestine. Both sides claim to want peace, but they have utterly different ideas on what a fair peace treaty would be. Peace will not come until it is in both sides best interests to be at peace on terms that both can agree too.

Currently Karma is afraid of NPO post terms, this is why they are so stringent on the demand that NPO's top ranks come out of peace mode get knocked down and then make the large nations pay all the reps too. While this wouldn't completely cripple NPO as NPO claims, it would cripple their ability to effectively make war for a very long time (wars are typically decided by the top nations). NPO on the otherhand almost certainly does want to have a Karma war 2.0 where they retake their spot on top, so anything that seriously weakens their long term war capacity is obviously not something they will accept.

Peace will come when NPO accepts that they will not be able to quickly return to power and accepts their complete defeat, and when Karma realizes that continuing the war is costing them more now (in terms of actual losses and political capital), than it gains them in long term security by further weakening NPO. NPO remains defiant, but appears to have agreed to pay very significant reparations according to the thread, Karma on the other hand has clearly accepted that NPO is no longer a huge threat and that peace is preferable to eternal war. I predict the actual terms to be somewhere in the middle, probably higher than the ones we have seen so far monetarily, but without some of the other conditions. But those won't happen until NPO swallows it's pride and Karma starts to feel heat from someone else and realizes that continued war with NPO is not advantageous for them.

So there will be no peace for now, both sides feel they would be better off by settling for peace at some point in the future, obviously they cannot both be right. So at some point NPO will realize further war is hopeless and take Karma's offer. Or Karma will realize they are facing other greater threats and make peace so they can focus their attention elsewhere.

Given the above their is very little members on either side can do to accelerate the peace process, really the only thing I can think of is being calm, polite, and respectful. When tempers are high it is much harder for a government negotiate a deal, especially if it's a potentially unpopular one.

[Walt Schmidt]

Kilkenny and NC1701 made a variety of good points.

Unfortunately, we have yet to identify anything we can do to expedite the end of the cuirrent hostilities.

Still, perhaps one of us does have an idea worth discussing.

Please, if you do, take a moment and share it with us.

p.s. Happy Father's Day to all!

p.p.s Know why Father's Day is in June? Because about a month after Mother's Day, somebody went "Hey wait a minute..."

Edited June 21, 2009 by Walt Schmidt