USN Treaty Announcement

[HeinousOne]

I never said it was a private game. I just want you to go home. You still seem to fail to understand why things have gone down the way they've gone down and insist on playing interpreter and peacemaker when its obviously ineffective. People are looking for answers that you can't give. Now kindly step to the left.

All I have sought to do was to bring to light for you guys how your own actions were being seen by atleast one person on the outside. That was the only answer I had to give. I care not about all the private things that have happened.

[SpacingOutMan]

Heinous One, I'm going to say this in this nicest way possible: stop. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about and although you have any and all rights to post here, you clearly do not have an unbiased opinion. Not only have you posted time and time again here about how unfairly USN is being treated, you failed to recognize the fact that others have been throwing empty accusations at CA signatories.

I've attempted to keep the peace in this thread in several posts but it seems that is beyond even myself. The fact is that when you come in bashing a very close ally, it tends to rub the wrong way. USN left the MDP portion of CA. We all got that. People are going to have their feelings hurt... look at when FOK and co. left The Continuum. Oh snap! Moreover, USN is still in SPAM and CA Eco. People are simply confused as to why they are a part of one thing, and not the other. I personally understand it, but I don't speak for all of Maroon now do I?

And to be honest, my understanding isn't as clear as I'd want it to be, but I am giving USN their best shot because I know they are trying to do what's right for them at the moment with their relatively new membership. It's not like none of us have ever changed. Both sides are being a tad ridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous are the baseless insinuations about the MA-ROK OOC relationship and the competence of CA.

Does any of this really concern many of you onlookers? No, it really doesn't. Some of you claim to know what's up, but in retrospect you don't know jack !@#$. Get off your high horse and just walk away before you add to the idiocy produced in this thread by some.

The fact, as previously mentioned and torn apart in this thread, is that USN left the Mutual Defense Pact of the Chestnut Accords. It's their decision and of course it hurts a bit because USN has been a part of the inner-Maroon community for the longest time. Now they are slowly drifting towards CDT... all the meanwhile the other part of CA is drifting toward SF!. That's how it works; no sphere can truly be united, but we have yearned so hard to create the best damn unity Maroon has ever seen, and it is a setback to lose USN in the key legislation holding us altogether.

They are still Maroon, however, and don't plan on moving to Purple or anything else. Let's all just let time take its course and stop assuming things because we have no hindsight to play off of. We have no telepathic wave link that allows us to read their minds.

I know for CSN, it was a damn shame that our MADP had to be canceled but that is how it was meant to be. This is also how it was meant to be. USN no longer wants to be in the vast limbo of treaties that ultimately nullify each other. Although I wish they had taken it under more scrutiny, everyone should at least be relieved that they actually made a decision on the matter and are standing by it. That takes a bit of you know what to do... I don't care who you are. They had a tough decision to make and they made it. Be proud of them for not sitting silently and being bantered in back channels as usual.

Let it go people. Verbally attacking one another and making arbitrary assumptions isn't going to change what happened. Just move on and live your lives; this is hardly the end of Bob as we know it.

[HeinousOne]

Heinous One, I'm going to say this in this nicest way possible: stop. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about and although you have any and all rights to post here, you clearly do not have an unbiased opinion. Not only have you posted time and time again here about how unfairly USN is being treated, you failed to recognize the fact that others have been throwing empty accusations at CA signatories.

I've attempted to keep the peace in this thread in several posts but it seems that is beyond even myself. The fact is that when you come in bashing a very close ally, it tends to rub the wrong way. USN left the MDP portion of CA. We all got that. People are going to have their feelings hurt... look at when FOK and co. left The Continuum. Oh snap! Moreover, USN is still in SPAM and CA Eco. People are simply confused as to why they are a part of one thing, and not the other. I personally understand it, but I don't speak for all of Maroon now do I?

And to be honest, my understanding isn't as clear as I'd want it to be, but I am giving USN their best shot because I know they are trying to do what's right for them at the moment with their relatively new membership. It's not like none of us have ever changed. Both sides are being a tad ridiculous, but what's even more ridiculous are the baseless insinuations about the MA-ROK OOC relationship and the competence of CA.

Does any of this really concern many of you onlookers? No, it really doesn't. Some of you claim to know what's up, but in retrospect you don't know jack !@#$. Get off your high horse and just walk away before you add to the idiocy produced in this thread by some.

The fact, as previously mentioned and torn apart in this thread, is that USN left the Mutual Defense Pact of the Chestnut Accords. It's their decision and of course it hurts a bit because USN has been a part of the inner-Maroon community for the longest time. Now they are slowly drifting towards CDT... all the meanwhile the other part of CA is drifting toward SF!. That's how it works; no sphere can truly be united, but we have yearned so hard to create the best damn unity Maroon has ever seen, and it is a setback to lose USN in the key legislation holding us altogether.

They are still Maroon, however, and don't plan on moving to Purple or anything else. Let's all just let time take its course and stop assuming things because we have no hindsight to play off of. We have no telepathic wave link that allows us to read their minds.

I know for CSN, it was a damn shame that our MADP had to be canceled but that is how it was meant to be. This is also how it was meant to be. USN no longer wants to be in the vast limbo of treaties that ultimately nullify each other. Although I wish they had taken it under more scrutiny, everyone should at least be relieved that they actually made a decision on the matter and are standing by it. That takes a bit of you know what to do... I don't care who you are. They had a tough decision to make and they made it. Be proud of them for not sitting silently and being bantered in back channels as usual.

Let it go people. Verbally attacking one another and making arbitrary assumptions isn't going to change what happened. Just move on and live your lives; this is hardly the end of Bob as we know it.

You are right, I do not have a learned pointed of view as to all the intricacies of this relationship. I never claimed to either. All of my posts were about what was seen here in this thread. I did not see a whole lot of USN aggression in this thread so I didn't point out any. If that makes my viewpoint one biased towards USN then ok I guess, but I disagree.

I will say this though, your post was one of a very few to actually attempt to explain things not to mention doing so in a rational and seemingly calm manner. Personally I am done with pointing out what I already pointed out, now its just come down to responding to those who wish to portray my postings in a light that is not necessarily the proper light as I see it.

[nutkase]

Heinous One, I'm going to say this in this nicest way possible: stop. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about and although you have any and all rights to post here, you clearly do not have an unbiased opinion. Not only have you posted time and time again here about how unfairly USN is being treated, you failed to recognize the fact that others have been throwing empty accusations at CA signatories.

Hope you relies and acknowledge that CA signatories have also been throwing around empty accusations.

[ace072199]

I wish USN the best in the future

[Logan]

You are right, I do not have a learned pointed of view as to all the intricacies of this relationship. I never claimed to either. All of my posts were about what was seen here in this thread. I did not see a whole lot of USN aggression in this thread so I didn't point out any. If that makes my viewpoint one biased towards USN then ok I guess, but I disagree.

I will say this though, your post was one of a very few to actually attempt to explain things not to mention doing so in a rational and seemingly calm manner. Personally I am done with pointing out what I already pointed out, now its just come down to responding to those who wish to portray my postings in a light that is not necessarily the proper light as I see it.

You know it could be that people don't appreciate you coming in here talking out of your $@! about something you obviously have no knowledge about, to either get a +1 post count or try to appear like a deep thinker. I grow tired of people thinking they are wiser than everyone else, when they are just wearing an ignorant mask of smug.

[HeinousOne]

You know it could be that people don't appreciate you coming in here talking out of your $@! about something you obviously have no knowledge about, to either get a +1 post count or try to appear like a deep thinker. I grow tired of people thinking they are wiser than everyone else, when they are just wearing an ignorant mask of smug.

Look at you, coming in here and judging me smugly about how I am being so smug and judgemental about something I know nothing about. Seems you really know nothing about what I was talking about. Do you have a mirror handy or do you need one sent to you?

[Logan]

Look at you, coming in here and judging me smugly about how I am being so smug and judgemental about something I know nothing about. Seems you really know nothing about what I was talking about. Do you have a mirror handy or do you need one sent to you?

Ah a 'no u' response. Excuse me but I wasn't the one trying to tell CSN and the rest of CA how they should react to USN downgrading their treaty on them. I didn't come in here condemning USN either, because I have no stake in this. Like you I'm an outsider, but unlike you I'm not preaching about how CA should react, and threatening that their PR points will go down because they are openly expressing discontent. I leave the drama to unfold by the ones involved, interjecting like you have just seems classless.

[HeinousOne]

Ah a 'no u' response. Excuse me but I wasn't the one trying to tell CSN and the rest of CA how they should react to USN downgrading their treaty on them. I didn't come in here condemning USN either, because I have no stake in this. Like you I'm an outsider, but unlike you I'm not preaching about how CA should react, and threatening that their PR points will go down because they are openly expressing discontent. I leave the drama to unfold by the ones involved, interjecting like you have just seems classless.

In this case a "no u" response seems to hit the bullseye. Why? Because you were not practicing as You preach. Despite your attempt to define my actions your words are not full of truth. What I did was make One post letting them know how an outsider feels about seeing them attacking USN in USN's announcement thread about leaving a bloc. Whether they care or not about that does not bother me. What happened though was multiple people continued to respond to my single post which lead to an ongoing conversation. Kind of like what you are doing.

So, are you going to continue with your little display of class for me to learn from?

[dejarue]

Telling someone to not act smugly is not a smug act.

Why are you still in here being an $@!? Still in here harassing us? Still in here making fool of yourself? Have not enough people told you to buzz off yet?

[HeinousOne]

Telling someone to not act smugly is not a smug act.

Why are you still in here being an $@!? Still in here harassing us? Still in here making fool of yourself? Have not enough people told you to buzz off yet?

Because people keep making comments towards me. Kind of like you did. Actually the number of people telling me to buzz off isnt that high. Was just having a chat with some of the pleasant ladies of Monos Archein about the thread last night. It was a friendly conversation and compliments went both ways. I was fine with letting things lie but when someone like yourself tries to make a condescending post towards me I am going to respond.

You may continue with your attempts to insult me out of here. I enjoy such immensely.

[King DrunkWino]

You may continue with your attempts to insult me out of here. I enjoy such immensely.

You smell funny.

[HeinousOne]

You smell funny.

This is true.

[Aurion]

Because people keep making comments towards me. Kind of like you did. Actually the number of people telling me to buzz off isnt that high. Was just having a chat with some of the pleasant ladies of Monos Archein about the thread last night. It was a friendly conversation and compliments went both ways. I was fine with letting things lie but when someone like yourself tries to make a condescending post towards me I am going to respond.

Damn those friendly female members of MA.

You may continue with your attempts to insult me out of here. I enjoy such immensely.

You are <adjective>.

I'll go with smelly.

You are smelly.

Edited June 14, 2009 by Aurion

[King DrunkWino]

You may continue with your attempts to insult me out of here. I enjoy such immensely.

Hummm, your mother has a tail?

[Logan]

In this case a "no u" response seems to hit the bullseye. Why? Because you were not practicing as You preach. Despite your attempt to define my actions your words are not full of truth. What I did was make One post letting them know how an outsider feels about seeing them attacking USN in USN's announcement thread about leaving a bloc. Whether they care or not about that does not bother me. What happened though was multiple people continued to respond to my single post which lead to an ongoing conversation. Kind of like what you are doing.

So, are you going to continue with your little display of class for me to learn from?

Your post was somehow relating maroon to the red team. I think there is a pretty significant difference. It was off base and made no sense at all. You then try to weasel your way through multiple unrelated arguments to try make your post less embarrassing. And when people call you out for the dumb post you try to play the victim yourself! There isn't always a bad guy and a good guy like you suggested. USN is not a victim here, they canceled the treaty on their own terms. The rest of Maroon has a reason to be upset about loosing an ally. But you, you do not have a reason to be upset about CA being upset. I am practicing what I'm preaching, as you see I'm not telling either party involved how to act, rather telling an unrelated party to stop trying to create drama for your own benefit.

Also if you want to take lessons on how to post in a thread that peeks your interest but you have no insight to what the actual situation is, look at my post on the first page. But since you happen to know so much about Maroon please enlighten me how it is the new Red team.

[HeinousOne]

Your post was somehow relating maroon to the red team. I think there is a pretty significant difference. It was off base and made no sense at all. You then try to weasel your way through multiple unrelated arguments to try make your post less embarrassing. And when people call you out for the dumb post you try to play the victim yourself! There isn't always a bad guy and a good guy like you suggested. USN is not a victim here, they canceled the treaty on their own terms. The rest of Maroon has a reason to be upset about loosing an ally. But you, you do not have a reason to be upset about CA being upset. I am practicing what I'm preaching, as you see I'm not telling either party involved how to act, rather telling an unrelated party to stop trying to create drama for your own benefit.

Also if you want to take lessons on how to post in a thread that peeks your interest but you have no insight to what the actual situation is, look at my post on the first page. But since you happen to know so much about Maroon please enlighten me how it is the new Red team.

Oh here you go again, trying to slip in a few insults about me in order to make your point. Yet you are trying to do that And come off as if you are standing on the moral high ground in this? Not to mention trying to point to your own post earlier as an example? You are certainly an example of something but that has nothing to do with this thread so I will not go there.

As far as Maroon becoming the next Red it is about exclusion. There were plenty of posters going off about USN leaving the Chestnut Accords which were said to BE Maroon. That went so far as threats about couping them and multiple EX members coming here to condemn their Old alliance. Basically it appeared like a nicely scripted CA attempt to slander USN due to USN making CA look like there are internal issues within Maroon. I mean, how dare someone on Maroon begin to think they are not so inclined to wish to walk step by step alongside some Maroon alliances with everything they wish to do. How does that equate to being Like Red? Freedom of choice within Red hasn't exactly been a reality until recently. Interesting that the fall of Red control comes at a time when it seems Maroon alliances wished to retain that same control. With USN leaving CA that means Maroon does not act as a whole militarily.

My question to you is how does all the drama that I supposedly created by responding to the many posts directed at me benefit me?

[Benjamin Arouet]

Oh here you go again, trying to slip in a few insults about me in order to make your point. Yet you are trying to do that And come off as if you are standing on the moral high ground in this? Not to mention trying to point to your own post earlier as an example? You are certainly an example of something but that has nothing to do with this thread so I will not go there.

As far as Maroon becoming the next Red it is about exclusion. There were plenty of posters going off about USN leaving the Chestnut Accords which were said to BE Maroon. That went so far as threats about couping them and multiple EX members coming here to condemn their Old alliance. Basically it appeared like a nicely scripted CA attempt to slander USN due to USN making CA look like there are internal issues within Maroon. I mean, how dare someone on Maroon begin to think they are not so inclined to wish to walk step by step alongside some Maroon alliances with everything they wish to do. How does that equate to being Like Red? Freedom of choice within Red hasn't exactly been a reality until recently. Interesting that the fall of Red control comes at a time when it seems Maroon alliances wished to retain that same control. With USN leaving CA that means Maroon does not act as a whole militarily.

My question to you is how does all the drama that I supposedly created by responding to the many posts directed at me benefit me?

Look, I've talked to USN leaders about this thread, and we've both agreed that we want it to die. Now, if you've read anything in this thread, you know that relations are somewhat strained between us, so us coming together to say even that much at this point is something. So congratulations, I suppose, for keeping the dialog going. At the same time, I'd ask you (as well as deja, sorry man this thread has run its course) and everyone else without something ORIGINAL and COMPELLING to add to this thread at this point to just respect the wishes of all the governments involved and let it die. Everyone has said their piece. I know USN isn't asking anyone to continue arguing on their behalf, because they've already gotten their words in and their government has already told us they've had enough with the thread. So stop. All the points and sides have been elaborated on, lets just take a step back. At this point, any attempts to continue the thread with such a negative tone are meddling in the future potential for relations between USN and CA signatories, which are more than I think many understand.

To address your post specifically in an attempt to clean this up: CA is not attempting to slander USN. If you'll look at it, many if not all of the examples you're using come from NON-LEADERSHIP folks, and many in NON-CA alliances. We cannot control what these people say, please stop equating it with policy. No one wants USN off Maroon, yes there are some hard feelings about the manner of their exit but no one wants to force them back into CA. Any suggestions otherwise are false.

Now for the love of admin, respect the wishes of all involved parties and LET THIS THREAD DIE. If there were a way to request threads to be locked still, this one would be.

[HeinousOne]

Look, I've talked to USN leaders about this thread, and we've both agreed that we want it to die. Now, if you've read anything in this thread, you know that relations are somewhat strained between us, so us coming together to say even that much at this point is something. So congratulations, I suppose, for keeping the dialog going. At the same time, I'd ask you (as well as deja, sorry man this thread has run its course) and everyone else without something ORIGINAL and COMPELLING to add to this thread at this point to just respect the wishes of all the governments involved and let it die. Everyone has said their piece. I know USN isn't asking anyone to continue arguing on their behalf, because they've already gotten their words in and their government has already told us they've had enough with the thread. So stop. All the points and sides have been elaborated on, lets just take a step back. At this point, any attempts to continue the thread with such a negative tone are meddling in the future potential for relations between USN and CA signatories, which are more than I think many understand.

To address your post specifically in an attempt to clean this up: CA is not attempting to slander USN. If you'll look at it, many if not all of the examples you're using come from NON-LEADERSHIP folks, and many in NON-CA alliances. We cannot control what these people say, please stop equating it with policy. No one wants USN off Maroon, yes there are some hard feelings about the manner of their exit but no one wants to force them back into CA. Any suggestions otherwise are false.

Now for the love of admin, respect the wishes of all involved parties and LET THIS THREAD DIE. If there were a way to request threads to be locked still, this one would be.

Awesome, glad to hear things aren't as bad as it appeared. Reason for me caring is because as you might remember, recently STA decided to make a move to somewhat seperate itself from White in order to back those we are closely aligned with. It didn't appear like some other folks on White thought nearly as highly about us as our other allies did so we did what we had to do. I personally saw similiarities between that situation and this one. I have said multiple times that I know I do not know everything about this situation yet others continued to try and point that out as if I hadn't stated such. I do wish the best for all involved and as long as some folks do not continue to address me with slanderous statements meant to try and whip me out of the conversation then you can definately consider me as having said all I wished to say.

I shall honor your respectful request.

[dejarue]

Maroon is not red. It is also not white. Our situations are not similar. Nor is USN similar to STA. And I say that as someone who has known USN for a looooong time, as ex-MoFA for CSN, and as an ex-member of STA.

Edited June 14, 2009 by deja

[Logan]

Oh here you go again, trying to slip in a few insults about me in order to make your point. Yet you are trying to do that And come off as if you are standing on the moral high ground in this? Not to mention trying to point to your own post earlier as an example? You are certainly an example of something but that has nothing to do with this thread so I will not go there.

More victim playing I see. Do you not see that I'm the one whose campaigning against this moral high ground !@#$%^&*? I'm not attacking you or your posts because it goes against my beliefs, I'm doing it because you are trying to label one side as angels and the other as demons. This situation has nothing to do with morals or good and evil. Its a flippin treaty cancellation, USN has the sovereignty to cancel. Just as CA can and should display their feeling out in the open, private channels for the lose right? Especially if they didn't intend to work on the grievances they had behind the scenes, and that's their prerogative. See no one is evil in this situation, they are different, it has absolutely nothing to do with morals, they simply chose one bloc over the other, and no one is saying they don't have that right.

As far as Maroon becoming the next Red it is about exclusion. There were plenty of posters going off about USN leaving the Chestnut Accords which were said to BE Maroon. That went so far as threats about couping them and multiple EX members coming here to condemn their Old alliance. Basically it appeared like a nicely scripted CA attempt to slander USN due to USN making CA look like there are internal issues within Maroon. I mean, how dare someone on Maroon begin to think they are not so inclined to wish to walk step by step alongside some Maroon alliances with everything they wish to do. How does that equate to being Like Red? Freedom of choice within Red hasn't exactly been a reality until recently. Interesting that the fall of Red control comes at a time when it seems Maroon alliances wished to retain that same control. With USN leaving CA that means Maroon does not act as a whole militarily.

I'm under the impression that Maroon is open to new alliances. And that all signatories have equal representation regardless of size, and even have a place to communicate with each other. Which I'm sure will be used now more than ever to ensure that the break up stops where they intended.

My question to you is how does all the drama that I supposedly created by responding to the many posts directed at me benefit me?

You are trying to portray yourself as an "Independent Thinker" as you indicate in your member title, or get your name out there, I don't know but it obviously isn't working as planned is it? USN probably doesn't want you crusading for their independence, as you seem to just be adding fuel to the hard feelings instead of trying to calm the storm.

[HeinousOne]

A shame you are unable to respect the request made Logan. I will not break my word though and respond directly to your post.

[nutkase]

You know it could be that people don't appreciate you coming in here talking out of your $@! about something you obviously have no knowledge about, to either get a +1 post count or try to appear like a deep thinker. I grow tired of people thinking they are wiser than everyone else, when they are just wearing an ignorant mask of smug.

Are you smugging someone else because they smugged others

[CptGodzilla]

Posted on June 2nd.

Coras response indicates that this topic has been discussed there before.

We know what history tells us of the USN's character.

I'm certain it didn't come easy.

Good job on making a hard decision.

How you doing Free buddy? c71.

in the picture it says that it is purely discussion, not a poll. it was 9 days before this thread was made. In my experience it took about a week to vote and more than a week to discuss. To go from discussing 2 treaty blocs to ditching one in 9 days is crazy.

As for the cora response. Anyone who knows cora / chestnut accords knows how she feels about the subject.

[fluffyewunga]

The date on the shot was when the discussion was started on our current forums. 3 weeks ago our old forums went down and we have been unable to access them since.