An annoucment concerning CSN.

[Rajistani]

Note: This is in the WORLD AFFAIRS section, which means it is posted by the people of Rajasthan, not their alliance. This in noway represents my alliance.

First and foremost I would like to thank CSN for recruiting members of alliances that surrendered:

Now, I know what you are all thinking, that probably only worked on noob nations, or was only sent to a few people, or people of GDA only... not the case. As shown in the following images it was actually cleverly sent to non-govt. nations, nations of different alliance affiliations

There are more nations, I am only posting the larger nations

This is only a few of them, because many new members of CSN deleted their old aid/wars once they expired - so no proof. But look at these NS's of the 3 listed:

75.2k+26.5k +17.7k = 119.4k

Now why am I coming here? Why did I not go to back channels? Well I did, GDA did infact. We were told CSN would "reprimand" the nation that did this. And it was NOT sanctioned by CSN. Vyper tells me a different story, he said was a standard message.

There were over 200 nations in GDA (over 300 pre-war I believe), and he sent messages to ATLEAST GDA and RDD... you can only send 200 messages a day. You decide, was it one guy from CSN? Or multiple?

Either way, his reprimand? CSN gave him money for recruitment. Now, as stated above we did go to back channels, so I did not take a screen shot of this offense, but I do have Vypers 30 day nation history.. Note he jumped in NS 3 days after this message was sent.

Now, to add insult to injury. GOD and CSN decided to attack those who were not complying with terms. Which is fine, except they attacked people who WERE complying as well.

note: This one is peaced, but he is anarchied:

nation 1 of many. View wars against GDA for more.

CSNs government said it was because he had cruise missles, as shown here:

<Rajistani> http://www.cybernations.net/nation_drill_d...ation_ID=247526

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> CM's on that second one

<Rajistani> we can have CMs

<Rajistani> http://forums.cybernations.net/index.php?showtopic=56097

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> that doesnt make it any less stupid

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]>

<Rajistani> he still shouldnt of been attacked

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> well thankfully he has been peaced out

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> and I cant tell what he had prior to

<Rajistani> he was anarchied, we can see that

<Rajistani> i can get battle reports maybe, depends on if your goign to do anything about it or not

<Rajistani> i dont want to bother for no reason

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> what do you want me to do about it....

<Rajistani> Reps.

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> I'm going to go out on a not so likely

<Rajistani> fair enough

<Rajistani> Goodbye.

<Allied_Threat[Warmonger]> well that was brief

GDA is ALLOWED to have cruise missles. Link to terms here.

Balls in your court CSN. I don't have the numbers to defend GDA nations, and neither does GDA, but hey, I will play it politically. It's how Gandhi won.

Edit: This fits in somewhere:

Edited May 19, 2009 by Rajistani

[Electron Sponge]

I still don't understand why recruiting is bad.

[neneko]

edit: I shouldn't post when I'm tired.

edit two to add some content:

I can't see why recruiting from their own (well co-ownership at least) pow would be that bad.

Edited May 19, 2009 by neneko

[toto]

Voted third, double posts should never be posted. also recruiting from an alliance is very bad.

[Aurion]

So uh...

Since the one guy wasn't in violation after being attacked and peaced for being in violation (presumably he fixed it), he shouldn't have been attacked in the first place?

Okay.

Oh, and CSN recruits. They are evil, yes?

Or are you saying that they're poaching from other alliances? It's difficult to tell honestly.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Aurion

[mhawk]

I still don't understand why recruiting is bad.

I think what he is implying is it is coerced recruiting. If they don't join they will be attacked while on pow.

[dejarue]

Ah yes.

I won't accuse you of taking things out of context because you probably weren't given the context. I don't know about the Snake bit, and am a bit surprised about that because I remember a few discussions where it was said he wasn't supposed to be recruiting like that.

However, Jake is a long-time former member and government of CSN who left for USB about a year ago and has been talking to us about coming back. He was never at war against CSN and we had been discussing his return long-prior to Karma-Heg breaking out.

As for Styxx, my understanding was that there was some dissatisfaction shown from the get-go about their membership in GDA. I won't speculate, and I know he wasn't squared off against Snake.

Now, as for attacking non-compliant members, we had a number of instances (I had one, in particular), where at one point in the day we were making lists and preparing to go, they were in violation, and we found after our attacks (VERY shortly after) they were suddenly in compliance. My particular target was the case. I personally checked him at 10:30 PM CN time and he was non-compliant. Yet at update, after I hit him, he was.

Edited May 19, 2009 by deja

[Rajistani]

Or are you saying that they're poaching from other alliances? It's difficult to tell honestly.

Mhawk got it in the next post.

[Roadie]

I vote 4)

I'm sure someone in hegemony did something like this once so it's fair game and my friend Rajistani should be EZI'd and sanctioned for even mentioning.

[Electron Sponge]

I think what he is implying is it is coerced recruiting. If they don't join they will be attacked while on pow.

Well that is bad but it's also pretty stupid to do. The last people you'd want in your alliance are people who don't want to be there.

[Engel]

I like polls. Great one Raji!

[Rajistani]

Forgot this one.

[dejarue]

I will definitely say you did the remarkably bad decision of taking this immediately public. There are private channels for a reason. We would have been happy to lay out what happened in these instances if you had just asked.

[Rajistani]

I will definitely say you did the remarkably bad decision of taking this immediately public. There are private channels for a reason. We would have been happy to lay out what happened in these instances if you had just asked.

If you read the post, you will see that private channels were attempted multiple times.

[Geanu]

Are you certain that the phrase "Join CSN" means become a member of the alliance in this case? I think he means join CSN...in peace...and grow. Rather than not comply and be attacked.

Also, with the attacking nations who had complied-

A list was posted of nations who were not in compliance. Any CSN nation within range was free to attack at update. It's CSN's right to authorize this, terms are terms. If a nation went into compliance within the time of the list posting and update, it's possible that a noob would have attacked before rechecking for compliance. Yes, we have noobs in CSN. There are noobs in every alliance. Peace will be declared, reps etc. Not really that big of a deal.

[Tulafaras]

okay first of all your post is so disjointed that i have absolutly no idea what the first 10 screenshots are supposed to mean.

Second of all, i compiled lists of term offenders three times in the last 2 weeks. all lists were forwarded to your goverment so that you could message your members to get em to comply, even though that would have been YOUR responsibility not mine on paper.

None of the nations on the list i compiled had CMs but if you want me to i can gladly post the 57 nations who were breaking the terms on sunday including what their offence was.

Now if you want to turn this in a PR campaign let me ask you a honest question, i've been asking myself since last friday:

How inept is your goverment that you cannot even get the ratio of complying nations up to 80%?

In regards to the nation with CMs while i do not see the benefit of having CMs up they are allowed to you, so they were not included. The nation of novichok was on the list for improvements, the attacker is supposed to take a screenshot before declaring war so if you insist i will go and hunt down that screenshot since mine is from friday.

(quick edit) the screenshot before attack would be GoD procedure, i am unsure if CSN has the same policy

Edited May 19, 2009 by Tulafaras

[Goose]

Well, good sir, you are spinning the facts out of what they are...

The message from Vyper was sent to nations in GDA that were non-compliant with the terms. I have apologized to the government myself for the issue, and Vyper has also sent an apology to those that received the message and encouraged them to stay in GDA.

As to the alleged people that we got from this recruiting drive, you need to pull your head from your $@!, as you are talking !@#$. The member from RDD, jakeinto, had been a long standing member of CSN in days long ago. He decided to return with no messages from us.

The two GDA members that joined had gotten to know the people they were fighting and changed alliances before that message was sent, note their alliance seniority and the date on the message.

I'll repeat again, my apologies for the message that included the recruitment message, as it should not have been sent out. If you have members other than the three (which had joined with no prodding from us before the message was sent), please let me know and we'll reach some sort of agreement...

[dejarue]

If you read the post, you will see that private channels were attempted multiple times.

I know that many of these things could not have been brought up privately or they wouldn't have been included in this post. Jake of Umatania is one of those.

Unless you brought it up privately, had it explained to you, and still figured you'd add it on to the stack just to make it look bigger and maybe hope nobody noticed.

[Allied_Threat]

Ah lovely... Took your time on this one.

Vyper has since spent days issuing apologies and stepped down from his post. It was a misunderstanding and was long ago handled.

Umantia is a former CSN member who was given a pardon by Delta himself and allowed to rejoin us.

TritonOps and Styxx joined April 30th... Well before that message went out.

As for in compliance... You gave me one, and did not mention further, and I did ask for some quick show, even a statement as to.... oh... how do I put it:

"but honestly it was peaced out well before anyone was railed, and if you can pull stuff up I am willing to look, but it is pretty much my guy's word against his unless I have a screenshot or something to look at, otherwise I assume he did a last minute remembering as soon as the declaration was made"

Give me something here, or even a statement from the guy... God forbid I ask my guy before you run off to smear. Anyone who has had the unparalleled joy of talking to me knows I am cranky and sarcastic.

[sippyjuice]

The situation with CSN's member recruiting was settled privately between our two alliances to the satisfaction of both. And they had every right to target people in violation of terms. CSN has been nothing but honorable to us.

Edited May 19, 2009 by sippyjuice

[Geanu]

The situation with CSN's member recruiting was settled privately between our two alliances to the satisfaction of both. CSN has been nothing but honorable to us. And they had every right to target people in violation of terms. Misunderstandings happen all the time. I don't see it as a reflection on them.

And there you go.

Let's all go out for drinks.

[Aurion]

Mhawk got it in the next post.

It would appear that this is a non-issue and was already handled.

And it would appear that the rest was a non-issue as well.

Private channels for the confusion, I suppose.

Edited May 19, 2009 by Aurion

[neneko]

Well this is just awful CSN. Sure you sorted this out with GDA but how could you forget to submit a formal appology to Rajistani? You should know by now that all important things needs to go through him.

On a more serious note Rajistani. Isn't this like the 2nd or 3rd time you do something like this since the war? Is your propaganda campain doing as well as you hoped?

[Bob]

The situation with CSN's member recruiting was settled privately between our two alliances to the satisfaction of both. And they had every right to target people in violation of terms. CSN has been nothing but honorable to us.

Hey! Don't say CSN is innocent! That's not allowed! We have to complain about it for longer and attempt to insult them!

Nice try Raji.

[Rajistani]

Are you certain that the phrase "Join CSN" means become a member of the alliance in this case?

I am fairly sure.

Peace will be declared, reps etc. Not really that big of a deal.

As the logs show, reps will not be paid.

all lists were forwarded to your goverment so that you could message your members to get em to comply, even though that would have been YOUR responsibility not mine on paper.

We did. They still got attacked.

The message from Vyper was sent to nations in GDA that were non-compliant with the terms. I have apologized to the government myself for the issue, and Vyper has also sent an apology to those that received the message and encouraged them to stay in GDA.

I am aware that was the agreement. I personally did not get a message, so I doubt anyone did.

The two GDA members that joined had gotten to know the people they were fighting and changed alliances before that message was sent, note their alliance seniority and the date on the message.

Well the message screenied was when I got it, right when I joined GDA ( I joined after the war, I was in IDC, we were asked to pay an assload of reps which we couldnt afford... so we disbanded). I assumed that this message was sent to others prior to me joining.

I'll repeat again, my apologies for the message that included the recruitment message, as it should not have been sent out.

I could quote your alliance mate in this thread, Tulafaras, about the ineptness of government...