Grand Global Alliance Terms of Surrender

[Dingo]

lol-GGA

[Owned-You]

Congrats on the peace.

[Andre27]

We're glad to see you, and have important information in your embassy, if you'd be so kind to look at it. One of your members is in danger.

A dear, who fell in the keg of beer (this time).

Always good to see lines of communication restored. ( I really miss a thumbsup emoticon)

[Bob Janova]

A green alliance should be able to get a senate position without having to obey the rules of other alliances

I await your rant against Orange, Black, Blue and wherever else Senate doctrines have been or are currently in force. The fact is that the UJA is a pretty good colour unity treaty, and certainly is not handed down by the hegemony onto an unwilling Green. (Unlike Dilrow, which really was 'that bad'.)

It's also not at all relevant to GGA's surrender.

[Doc Taco]

I await your rant against Orange, Black, Blue and wherever else Senate doctrines have been or are currently in force. The fact is that the UJA is a pretty good colour unity treaty, and certainly is not handed down by the hegemony onto an unwilling Green. (Unlike Dilrow, which really was 'that bad'.)

It's also not at all relevant to GGA's surrender.

True Bob. Sorry I brought it up.

[Jebbie]

I enjoyed our war Randleman, next time I would prefer if you deleted your SDI first though

[neneko]

It means don't go rogue and sanction a bunch of green nations on a whim, basically. That goes for both VE and GGA as well. If someone can't handle that the action we would most likely take is voting the offender out of senate. The evil of it all i know.

That's not the only rules in UJA. IF a senator does that in any other sphere he's going to be removed either way most likely. It's all the other rules they need to conform to that bugs me. It might seem like small details to you but imposing any rules at all for allowing a sovereign alliance to get a senate seat is too much if you ask me. For example that you can vote out a senator by a majority vote from the signatories in UJA where if the senator is voted out must leave the senate or be subject for attacks. There are more things I don't agree with in the UJA but that one stands out.

I think that's what your referring to. the work of the advisors really falls on sognatore, ironchef and shaneprice as they are the active elders, anyone with any credibility (not looking to start a fight) would be more than aware of who our active elders are. Even Vox knew which elders were the ones who were around. I am aware our charter states they are advisors even if they're inactive, but i can assure you their silence as well as their general not being around do hinder going forward with any of their secret agendas. Bottom line they did retire in good standing and they were appointed their rightful position within the alliance.

As far as the same membership, again not true, our membership has changed dramatically over the last three years, my time alone in the GGA i can say there's a fraction of who there used to be. Just as any other alliance. I myself have never "punished" an alliancefor crimes not made by their current govt. neither have KungFuHamster or Scotchwithrocks. Actually we've never punished anyone at all.

You have yet to show just cause for attacking this current govt. with any evidence of our wrong doing. Not that im expecting you to, if it's your desire to hate us, you're going to regardless.

I don't spend alot of time on gga public channels since I feel that'd be detrimental to foreign relations and I don't think I'd get to stay long anyway. I don't get fed any info from vox spies either. I tried to ask shatterman really nice but he didn't budge one bit. So forgive me if I don't know exactly wich people in gga are active and not. Now that you told me though. I could swear I've seen both ironchef and shaneprice signatures on some of the less than fair surrender terms handed out. If you didn't support your old governments actions (although I find this very hard to belive seeing how you rose to the position you did) I assume that you didn't support the eternal war on FAN either. I'd ask you if you invited the alliances you forced off color back but as far as I know they disbanded a bit after they were forced off the sphere so I guess we'll never know that.

As for the general membership changing alot I don't really belive it. I still see pretty much the same people on owf from gga that I've always seen but I don't have any proof here so I'll just let it slide.

The fact still stands that you havn't tried to make ammends or shown regret for any of your past crimes since this new government came into power. You might claim you've changed but all that's different is the figureheads. You havn't shown any regrets for your past crimes and I doubt you will unless forced to. Saying that you're different because the government changed only works if you've actually made any changes. I can't say what you've done internally but your foreign affairs look just like it always did with your new government (except maybe for the owf incident). You've shown that you're not willing to change so I wonder how you lose all responsibility for your old crimes when you still follow the same path.

[Nada2486]

Good luck rebuilding GGA, you put up a hell of a fight.

o/ GGA

[neneko]

I await your rant against Orange, Black, Blue and wherever else Senate doctrines have been or are currently in force. The fact is that the UJA is a pretty good colour unity treaty, and certainly is not handed down by the hegemony onto an unwilling Green. (Unlike Dilrow, which really was 'that bad'.)

It's also not at all relevant to GGA's surrender.

Article IV. La Roche-Noire:

The Black Senate

Section 1.

Signatories agree to maintain a senate which is open to any candidate.

Section 2.

Signatories are encouraged to coordinate their votes in order to establish a stable and reliable senate.

Section 3.

Signatories represented directly by a senator agree to respond to sanction requests made by fellow signatories as though the requests were made by their own respective alliance.

I'm actually not familiar with orange and blue sphere senate doctrines but the black one does not state that the signatories can vote to force a senator out. The black alliances doesn't have any say who becomes a senator and people that are not signatories are not affected by the rules stated in the sphere doctrine unlike the green one.

[Gears of War]

At least we never have to hear GGA boast about never losing a war ever again.

[FallenFighter]

At least we never have to hear GGA boast about never losing a war ever again.

War? This was no war, just a simple scuffle.

[DerekJones]

I don't spend alot of time on gga public channels since I feel that'd be detrimental to foreign relations and I don't think I'd get to stay long anyway. I don't get fed any info from vox spies either. I tried to ask shatterman really nice but he didn't budge one bit. So forgive me if I don't know exactly wich people in gga are active and not. Now that you told me though. I could swear I've seen both ironchef and shaneprice signatures on some of the less than fair surrender terms handed out. If you didn't support your old governments actions (although I find this very hard to belive seeing how you rose to the position you did) I assume that you didn't support the eternal war on FAN either. I'd ask you if you invited the alliances you forced off color back but as far as I know they disbanded a bit after they were forced off the sphere so I guess we'll never know that.

First, all government members above the rank of Vice-Chancellor have their signatures on treaties, but they are voted on by the Triumvirate and only the Triumvirate, as defined by the charter. The presence of people's names is irrelevant to whether or not they supported it, or whether or not they're active in government (with the exception of the Triumvirate).

Second, the Triumvirate is expected to make intelligent and rational decisions based on what's appropriate and what has merit for the time, not based on what their predecessors want. While I'm sure the legacy and decisions of former Triumvirs are respected, their decisions and what they supported do not dictate what the current Triumvirate has to support. There were government members in the Grand Global Alliance who did not feel as the Triumvirate did about removing Dilrow when I was a Triumvir, but us not supporting it had nothing to do with our ascension. It was a decision we felt was right at the time, and we were in the position to make it. The current Triumvirate has the same leeway in making decisions, and I hope they continue to make decisions that are best for them rather than conforming to what their predecessors or allies might be partial to.

The fact still stands that you havn't tried to make ammends or shown regret for any of your past crimes since this new government came into power. You might claim you've changed but all that's different is the figureheads. You havn't shown any regrets for your past crimes and I doubt you will unless forced to. Saying that you're different because the government changed only works if you've actually made any changes. I can't say what you've done internally but your foreign affairs look just like it always did with your new government (except maybe for the owf incident). You've shown that you're not willing to change so I wonder how you lose all responsibility for your old crimes when you still follow the same path.

A year ago, the Grand Global Alliance repealed the Dilrow Doctrine and the Algae Agreement, and within the last few days, the Grand Global Alliance government ended their wars on FAN and Vox Populi, along with clearing their target lists. I can't speak for the peace on Vox and FAN, but I can guarantee you that the repeal of Dilrow/Algae was not forced in any way, shape, or form. I wonder what else the Grand Global Alliance could do to convince you that they're not the same, but I have a feeling they won't. If people are as short-sighted as you to ignore what they have done, then it's no wonder people continue to blame them for these issues.

[Degenerate108]

That's not the only rules in UJA. IF a senator does that in any other sphere he's going to be removed either way most likely. It's all the other rules they need to conform to that bugs me. It might seem like small details to you but imposing any rules at all for allowing a sovereign alliance to get a senate seat is too much if you ask me. For example that you can vote out a senator by a majority vote from the signatories in UJA where if the senator is voted out must leave the senate or be subject for attacks. There are more things I don't agree with in the UJA but that one stands out.

I don't spend alot of time on gga public channels since I feel that'd be detrimental to foreign relations and I don't think I'd get to stay long anyway. I don't get fed any info from vox spies either. I tried to ask shatterman really nice but he didn't budge one bit. So forgive me if I don't know exactly wich people in gga are active and not. Now that you told me though. I could swear I've seen both ironchef and shaneprice signatures on some of the less than fair surrender terms handed out. If you didn't support your old governments actions (although I find this very hard to belive seeing how you rose to the position you did) I assume that you didn't support the eternal war on FAN either. I'd ask you if you invited the alliances you forced off color back but as far as I know they disbanded a bit after they were forced off the sphere so I guess we'll never know that.

As for the general membership changing alot I don't really belive it. I still see pretty much the same people on owf from gga that I've always seen but I don't have any proof here so I'll just let it slide.

The fact still stands that you havn't tried to make ammends or shown regret for any of your past crimes since this new government came into power. You might claim you've changed but all that's different is the figureheads. You havn't shown any regrets for your past crimes and I doubt you will unless forced to. Saying that you're different because the government changed only works if you've actually made any changes. I can't say what you've done internally but your foreign affairs look just like it always did with your new government (except maybe for the owf incident). You've shown that you're not willing to change so I wonder how you lose all responsibility for your old crimes when you still follow the same path.

True but keep in mind, That treaty was written with input from VE and if im remember correctly iFOK was even present at that point as well as ourselves. The fact that VE and GGA worked to push green unity alone should be a huge indicator of what we are now, compared to what we were than.

Ironchef possibly served during some of those terms but shane was a triumvirate after i became one he's pretty much in the same boat as myself. Thats aside the point though as most leaders in this game have done unsavory things at one time or another. As far as the FAN war goes, i was just a little guy at that point with no govt. connection what so ever, back than i just did what i was told. I wouldn't even know why we went to war with FAN had it not been for CNwiki.

We don't control green nor would we attempt to keep people off the sphere, the ones that have left, have left before my time with the exception of GUN and i do believe we offered them a spot in the UJA before they left as well though i can't remember.

The vocal membership is still within the rank, apart from being vocal on the OWF though they have no say or intention to run the govt. Theres nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from though as they are definitely not the only people on the OWF that blindly attack people attacking their home. Every alliance is guilty of having those members if you can even call it "being guilty".

You are mistaken, we've made or attempted to make amends on several fronts, we've distanced ourselves from the Bilrow era, going as far as to stunt our growth by moving to new forums and transfering ownership of our roster systems amongst other things. We have allowed FAN and Vox to go in peace, and we haven't had a part in any war since i became triumvir aside from this one. As i said before this could go on forever, so i'll just say this. We know who we are, The alliances that have had to deal with us over the course of the last several months know who we are and really in the end that's all thats going to matter. Your justified in holding grudges i guess, but than as i also said you're no better than what you've grown to hate.

[ecoli73]

It was indeed fun to engage several capable opponents.

I think good times were had by all

[dejarue]

Declaring war on 11 alliances would be suicidal, even for us

Hitting the declare war button is suicidal for you guys.

[ecoli73]

Hitting the declare war button is suicidal for you guys.

Indeed...When I emerged from peace mode to engage, I envisioned worse things...

But then, a little blood shedding every once a while, esp against pleasant opponents are good for the soul

[menwearpink135]

I am disappointed that my name was not on this surrender list as I helped engage Ironchef.

Maybe we will see a new dawn for the GGA.

[Starfox101]

250 million is too lenient.

The GGA, aside from the NPO, have been the biggest criminals in this game. They deserve far worse than this.

Sorry, but what goes around comes around, and please try and call me a hypocrite, so I can refute it and get it done with.

[Inquisitor Tolkien]

250 million is too lenient.

The GGA, aside from the NPO, have been the biggest criminals in this game. They deserve far worse than this.

Sorry, but what goes around comes around, and please try and call me a hypocrite, so I can refute it and get it done with.

Why am I not surprised?

[General Cartman Lee]

Sorry, but what goes around comes around, and please try and call me a hypocrite, so I can refute it and get it done with.

)): Hypocrite )):

Nah. We ya, SF.

Edited May 14, 2009 by General Cartman Lee

[neneko]

First, all government members above the rank of Vice-Chancellor have their signatures on treaties, but they are voted on by the Triumvirate and only the Triumvirate, as defined by the charter. The presence of people's names is irrelevant to whether or not they supported it, or whether or not they're active in government (with the exception of the Triumvirate).

Second, the Triumvirate is expected to make intelligent and rational decisions based on what's appropriate and what has merit for the time, not based on what their predecessors want. While I'm sure the legacy and decisions of former Triumvirs are respected, their decisions and what they supported do not dictate what the current Triumvirate has to support. There were government members in the Grand Global Alliance who did not feel as the Triumvirate did about removing Dilrow when I was a Triumvir, but us not supporting it had nothing to do with our ascension. It was a decision we felt was right at the time, and we were in the position to make it. The current Triumvirate has the same leeway in making decisions, and I hope they continue to make decisions that are best for them rather than conforming to what their predecessors or allies might be partial to.

A year ago, the Grand Global Alliance repealed the Dilrow Doctrine and the Algae Agreement, and within the last few days, the Grand Global Alliance government ended their wars on FAN and Vox Populi, along with clearing their target lists. I can't speak for the peace on Vox and FAN, but I can guarantee you that the repeal of Dilrow/Algae was not forced in any way, shape, or form. I wonder what else the Grand Global Alliance could do to convince you that they're not the same, but I have a feeling they won't. If people are as short-sighted as you to ignore what they have done, then it's no wonder people continue to blame them for these issues.

While I might agree that signing the current green unity treaty would be somewhat redeeming it wasn't signed of any of the current triumvirs. The current government isn't responsible for crimes commited by past governments but are redeemed by actions by past governments? It doesn't hold up.

Also I think you got it the wrong way around. If I was shortsighted your 'they gave FAN peace' would have worked but it's blatantly obvious that it was because of karma and wouldn't have happened without this war.

True but keep in mind, That treaty was written with input from VE and if im remember correctly iFOK was even present at that point as well as ourselves. The fact that VE and GGA worked to push green unity alone should be a huge indicator of what we are now, compared to what we were than.

Ironchef possibly served during some of those terms but shane was a triumvirate after i became one he's pretty much in the same boat as myself. Thats aside the point though as most leaders in this game have done unsavory things at one time or another. As far as the FAN war goes, i was just a little guy at that point with no govt. connection what so ever, back than i just did what i was told. I wouldn't even know why we went to war with FAN had it not been for CNwiki.

We don't control green nor would we attempt to keep people off the sphere, the ones that have left, have left before my time with the exception of GUN and i do believe we offered them a spot in the UJA before they left as well though i can't remember.

The vocal membership is still within the rank, apart from being vocal on the OWF though they have no say or intention to run the govt. Theres nothing wrong with being proud of where you come from though as they are definitely not the only people on the OWF that blindly attack people attacking their home. Every alliance is guilty of having those members if you can even call it "being guilty".

You are mistaken, we've made or attempted to make amends on several fronts, we've distanced ourselves from the Bilrow era, going as far as to stunt our growth by moving to new forums and transfering ownership of our roster systems amongst other things. We have allowed FAN and Vox to go in peace, and we haven't had a part in any war since i became triumvir aside from this one. As i said before this could go on forever, so i'll just say this. We know who we are, The alliances that have had to deal with us over the course of the last several months know who we are and really in the end that's all thats going to matter.

I'll stop arguing about the green unity treaty simply because it doesn't belong in this thread and isn't only ggas responsibility although I would see how VE would sign it seeing what the alternative was.

Every alliance might have some bagage but GGA have done some horrible things through its history. I didn't claim that your vocal members make your decisions I said that I'm fairly sure your general membership is basically the same and havn't changed alot through your history, same people supporting the same decisions. It doesn't matter if they don't have any actual say in decisions they're supporting the alliance decisions by being in the alliance. If umbrella decided to force smaller black alliances off the sphere for example I'd leave tomorrow.

As for the forum move I remember that whole story. I don't see why you would bring it up since it hardly support your side of this argument. You stayed on the forums bilrow owned while he was in NPO and it wasn't until it was brought up on owf and you were basically forced to change by the public that you finally changed forums.

Your justified in holding grudges i guess, but than as i also said you're no better than what you've grown to hate.

and of course the "you're as bad as we are". no argument would be complete without it. I hold grudges for things you did to me, my friends, my alliances and their allies for no or close to no reason except showing off your borrowed power. You did these things as I said for close to no reason. Even if I were to get revenge and get an eye for an eye I wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as you. It'd be punishments for harsh crimes opposed to light or no crimes as you did to us.

Might still makes right on bob though and I'm not a powerful person. I can only hope that you get your justice served to you.

[Starfox101]

Why am I not surprised?

I hold grudges.

GGA, you will pay. You are not forgiven.

After all, Prodigal Chieftain is not back in power. Only then, will you be forgiven.

[Degenerate108]

While I might agree that signing the current green unity treaty would be somewhat redeeming it wasn't signed of any of the current triumvirs. The current government isn't responsible for crimes commited by past governments but are redeemed by actions by past governments? It doesn't hold up.

Also I think you got it the wrong way around. If I was shortsighted your 'they gave FAN peace' would have worked but it's blatantly obvious that it was because of karma and wouldn't have happened without this war.

It was signed by the current Triumvirate, when we updated it to include the green protectorate clause among other things.

I'll stop arguing about the green unity treaty simply because it doesn't belong in this thread and isn't only ggas responsibility although I would see how VE would sign it seeing what the alternative was.

Tthe "alternative" would have been to continue on like that had already been doing.

Every alliance might have some bagage but GGA have done some horrible things through its history. I didn't claim that your vocal members make your decisions I said that I'm fairly sure your general membership is basically the same and havn't changed alot through your history, same people supporting the same decisions. It doesn't matter if they don't have any actual say in decisions they're supporting the alliance decisions by being in the alliance. If umbrella decided to force smaller black alliances off the sphere for example I'd leave tomorrow.

As for the forum move I remember that whole story. I don't see why you would bring it up since it hardly support your side of this argument. You stayed on the forums bilrow owned while he was in NPO and it wasn't until it was brought up on owf and you were basically forced to change by the public that you finally changed forums.

It's funny you would bring that up, i can refute that as i was the one that had started setting up the new forums a full week an a half before any mention of us having forums connected to bilrow was released on the OWF. (feb. 25th 2009) it wasn't until shane left that it became known that we were on forums without root admin. (beginning of march cant remember the exact date i'd have to ask shane.)

and of course the "you're as bad as we are". no argument would be complete without it. I hold grudges for things you did to me, my friends, my alliances and their allies for no or close to no reason except showing off your borrowed power. You did these things as I said for close to no reason. Even if I were to get revenge and get an eye for an eye I wouldn't be anywhere near as bad as you. It'd be punishments for harsh crimes opposed to light or no crimes as you did to us.

Again im pretty sure none of the three Triumvirate even know who you are let alone have "done things" to you like you claim. We haven't done anything to you as far as my knowledge goes. I will accept that past govt. as wronged you but i will not coddle you because you were wronged before we ever had any control over the fate of the GGA.

Might still makes right on bob though and I'm not a powerful person. I can only hope that you get your justice served to you.

[Xavii]

finally actual terms

Finally some real terms. Good job to everyone involved.

Congratulations Athens, you are the winner of the May "grow yourself a pair" Award for not succumbing to the wussification of CN.

Oh the irony.

Anyway, enjoy your very lenient terms GGA, hope you earn it.

[neneko]

It was signed by the current Triumvirate, when we updated it to include the green protectorate clause among other things.

but you had no part in tearing down the algea wich was the original point here, thus you have made no ammends for ggas former crimes and no giving FAN peace with a gun pressed against your head does not count

Tthe "alternative" would have been to continue on like that had already been doing.

The alternative would have been to keep algea.

It's funny you would bring that up, i can refute that as i was the one that had started setting up the new forums a full week an a half before any mention of us having forums connected to bilrow was released on the OWF. (feb. 25th 2009) it wasn't until shane left that it became known that we were on forums without root admin. (beginning of march cant remember the exact date i'd have to ask shane.)

Nice refutation. I don't belive a word. When it was brought up your old forum bilrow owned were still being used. It wasn't somewhere until mid-thread that any other forum were even mentioned wich would be strange for something you already were working on.

Again im pretty sure none of the three Triumvirate even know who you are let alone have "done things" to you like you claim. We haven't done anything to you as far as my knowledge goes. I will accept that past govt. as wronged you but i will not coddle you because you were wronged before we ever had any control over the fate of the GGA.

I highly doubt any of your old triumvirates know who I am either. I don't think they know a percent of the people they punished. I don't claim that the current triumvirates did anything to me. I'm saying that GGA did. The old crimes doesn't automatically go away as soon as a new triumvirate replace one of the old. The triumvirates have been replaced one by one and still nobody have made any ammends for GGAs past crimes or even shown any regret. Maybe a written appology would be in order? You can write those without it being part of surrender terms you know. The only redeeming thing GGA have done was to remove the algea and the current triumvirates had no part in that. In my eyes you still support the things that GGA have done in the past unless you show you've changed the direction. As I said changing triumvirates does not qualify you for a "get out of jail free card" automaticaly.

With that said I'm leaving this thread. Partly because it was a pain to reply when you wrote your answers inside the quote but also because this is going nowhere. No matter how long we argue I'm not going to think anything more of GGA and you won't show any regret for GGAs crimes.

Edited May 14, 2009 by neneko