DerekJones

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='23 March 2010 - 08:15 AM' timestamp='1269350108' post='2234157'] And here I thought GGA's interpretation of the text was all that was important, considering it is the GGA's doctrine. [/quote] The interpretation is yours to make. It's great if you have no intention to attack a green team nation unless they attack first, but the wording leaves in quite a loophole if you change your mind. Those are the usual tricks of Cybernations though, so this really isn't anything worth being concerned about. I'm just stating that you were wrong in telling Geoffron that his exact quoting of the language of your own doctrine was wrong

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='22 March 2010 - 10:57 PM' timestamp='1269316647' post='2233918'] And yet more straightforward than 90 percent of anything else that gets announced aroudn here. [/quote] Such is the world around us. Nobody wants their hands tied because of unforeseen circumstances, hence the flexibility aspect. But, back to your original post, Geoffron is very far from wrong.

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='22 March 2010 - 09:44 PM' timestamp='1269312262' post='2233835'] Unfortunately, you have it wrong, and the person you quoted has it right. [/quote] History has shown that it is the prerogative of the leaders of an alliance when it comes to defining an aggressive action. This could be spying, aiding, an actual war, or anything else, whatever the leaders want to spin it as. Saying you won't is great and all, but the language you've chosen makes this clause fairly flexible, as Geoffron pointed out.

[quote name='Dementual' date='21 March 2010 - 06:51 PM' timestamp='1269215469' post='2232537'] I'll await the day that you stop following us around everywhere we go and complain about every little thing we do, my dear (slightly creepy) fellow. It isn't as though you have any say in our policies anyway. [/quote] Ignoring the fact that this entire policy is probably in response to the revelation that your new Sovereign was apathetic towards the green team genocide, do you ever actually partake in intelligent debate? Or are you just an assembly line of one-liners?

I fail to see at all why this announcement is necessary. The Grand Global Alliance has done nothing against the green team in years to realistically warrant this doctrine. They removed the Dilrow Doctrine, removed the Algae Agreement, served as a charter alliance in the United Jungle Accords, and even signed a treaty with the Viridian Entente two years ago. I smell blatant PR stunt rather than any sort of new commitment to green that the past Grand Global Alliance didn't have. [quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='21 March 2010 - 10:12 AM' timestamp='1269184323' post='2232142'] Probably because we threw out all the policies of the "old administrations" (and rightly so) and are reconstructing a respectable GGA in our own image. [/quote] [quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='21 March 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1269191113' post='2232214'] I would hope that you understand that there is a difference between hindering an alliance's move to green and never attacking an alliance on green. Under the UJA, the GGA would have been able to attack any non-UJA signatory on green without necessarily attempting to drive them off of the color itself. [b]This is probably the sort of loophole that would have been exploited in the past by GGA, and it was obviously necessary to close it so that GGA would never have the opportunity to return to the state it was in before the new regime.[/b] [/quote] Why are you passing judgment on former leaders of the Grand Global Alliance when you really have no idea about our intentions? We obviously didn't sign the United Jungle Accords or remove the Dilrow Doctrine with the intention of attacking anyone on green or forcing an alliance off the sphere. Sorry, but your comment is completely and utterly illogical, nonsensical, and misinformed. If you want to continue pandering to people about how noble your revolution is by stating how tyrannical us former leaders were after taking several measures to help restore the green sphere and alliances we wronged in the past, at least have some sort of history or facts to back up your claims about us. Otherwise, it frankly just makes you look completely ignorant. You can look at the state of Planet Bob at the time of the founding of the United Jungle Accords, and you'd see that the Grand Global Alliance was growing after regaining our sanction, we were still a major influence in world politics as One Vision still existed, and we were completely capable of continuing to control the green team if we wished. There really isn't a decent or valid argument for any kind of ulterior motive in our pursuit of a major policy overhaul when it came to the green sphere. We did it because it was the right thing to do, plain and simple. Insinuating otherwise is a half-hearted and misinformed attempt at either putting down either our regime or the alliance as a whole. But getting back on topic, the terms of the United Jungle Accords in which it doesn't specifically say that members won't attack any green team alliance has just as much of a "loophole" as your Article III, which states, "Article Two is voided by an alliance if it commits aggressive actions towards the Grand Global Alliance or an ally of the Grand Global Alliance." The non-aggression pact that the old charters followed was basically the same principle regardless, so this really isn't anything new or substantial, frankly. I'll await the day that this new Grand Global Alliance does something meaningful instead of just repeating an already-existing principle for an issue long-since resolved.

Glad to see you guys growing Keep it up!

[quote name='Sir Sci' date='12 March 2010 - 06:50 PM' timestamp='1268441738' post='2223797'] Oh good job, address part of what I said but not all of it. I'm so proud. And obviously it was an effective coup, because they're the GGA and those who aren't with them anymore, well, aren't. [/quote] I think the point that he was making is that it was hardly a coup of the people, especially when you lose 40 percent of your members as well as enact measures that, when put to popular vote, did not pass. Don't confuse support for apathy. This is also discounting the fact that this version of the GGA is hardly what I'd call successful. Rather than fight, members who are active who didn't support the coup left and formed new alliances with the belief that starting fresh would yield more results. So far, all Jonathan and co. have done is take over a mostly lethargic membership base that's lost most of the reputable members it had left from a dwindling membership base. Time will tell if the coup is truly successful, but I'm not holding out much hope.

[quote name='Sir Sci' date='12 March 2010 - 12:55 PM' timestamp='1268420442' post='2223498'] No, that does not appear to be what he is suggesting at all. It seems more accurate that what he's saying is that if anybody wants to influence the course that the GGA is going, that they should be in the alliance. You can't help or influence an alliance internally without, well, being in it. Simple logic. [/quote] Or you could influence it by illegally taking it over from the outside. That seemed to have more of an effect than legitimate members voting down these very same decisions about their alliance. Obviously not so simple logic.

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='11 March 2010 - 08:37 PM' timestamp='1268361753' post='2222806'] I have no dislike for any former members that choose to not use their position as a former member to attempt to induce chaos within the alliance, as some have chosen to do. [/quote] You call it inducing chaos, I call it having fresh in my mind the memories of when I was privileged enough to have to endure you and your games in a leadership capacity. The words of myself of Andre or anyone else should not be discounted just because we're not in the alliance now. Various issues have caused us to move on, but it doesn't negate the years of service we've put into this alliance. I think, at heart, once you're a member, you're always a member. To ignore both the time we've put into this alliance along with our criticisms because we're not members now is ludicrous. I carry Andre's opinion as someone who recently left his alliance of almost three years with a much higher level of respect than someone like Jonathan who forced himself in as Emperor after being removed from the alliance two years earlier.

[quote name='Il Impero Romano' date='10 March 2010 - 05:22 PM' timestamp='1268263676' post='2221401'] You've always seemed like a smart guy who gave a crap, I really wish you would let sleeping dogs lie and lend a helping hand rather then cause angst. VE obviously has no official stance on the internal happenings of GGA. Personally though, I don't really see how it could be a power play. What power is there left to play in GGA? (no offense, GGAers). What type of personal gain would be in this for them? Sadly, there is none, so it is impossible for it to be a power play. What I have seen so far from them is not some sort of diabolical scheme or delusional sense of a newly found world power, but rather a genuine interest in growing GGA into something that matters once more. I've seen a disire to further green, to work with others, and to actively cultivate progress within UJA and their alliance itself. We've seen that old bizarre and archaic charter done away with. All in all, we've seen more progress in the last few week from GGA then we've seen in months or more, and if nothing else that's good for green. Why dwell on the past? If you care enough to comment over and over again, it would make sense to help progress in the future instead. [/quote] Personally, my experience with Jonathan has not proven him to be anything but a manipulative, self-serving individual with more interest in his personal achievements and accolades and less in actually saving the Grand Global Alliance. Was the charter change necessary? Probably. The Triumvirate system showed some serious issues that caused a lot of problems for the alliance. Are there a million better people who should have been considered for the position? Yes, preferably somebody who was actually a member of the alliance rather than someone who spent the last two years trying to undermine it.

[quote name='New Frontier' date='10 March 2010 - 12:05 PM' timestamp='1268244641' post='2221076'] I guess he forgot the part where the majority of GGA membership were valuable, intelligent members that you can build an alliance around. [/quote] Most of those people got out when they realized the ship was sinking. All that's left are people who seem to have no problem blindly following an outside individual that took over and declared himself Emperor.

[quote name='Wad of Lint' date='10 March 2010 - 09:52 AM' timestamp='1268236663' post='2220961'] I think the current leadership is far better than the past. I only wish NSO had fangirls like you. [/quote] Yes because past leadership saw a 40 percent decrease in membership within a matter of weeks Glad to see blind stupidity is still rampant here

Jonathan Brookbank: Emperor of the Grand Global Alliance. Can't say I'm surprised, but it's still kind of low for him to come in under the self-proclaimed aura of "Savior of the Grand Global Alliance" and just work a power play to take over as the supreme ruler. It's too bad nobody is left in the Grand Global Alliance that seems to remember the fact that you tried to gut the Grand Global Alliance to start your own, or how you clashed with the Grand Global Alliance out of your own sheer arrogance at the expense of one of your own alliances, The Dominion. I wonder how many people remember the fact that you were too preoccupied with your e-peen contest in the CelticBrewer incident, causing you to subvert the rest of your government to successfully clash with us. Too bad everyone who remembers is either long gone or without enough fight to do anything about it. I'd say Rest in Peace GGA, but I doubt I have to wait very long to watch you bury it yourself. If anything, I'll have my popcorn ready to watch Brookbank's Empire.

[quote name='Dementual' date='03 March 2010 - 11:54 PM' timestamp='1267682292' post='2213469'] All I pretty much got from those logs was that the Emerald Affairs were started out of nowhere and in a windstorm of "what the hell just happened?" I'm also missing their relevancy. I'm also missing the reasoning behind attempting to stir controversy in my alliance's birthday announcement. [/quote] I'll explain it for you if you don't care to read or follow what's been going on. I decided to post about how you guys keep positioning yourselves as wanting to save green and criticizing past Grand Global Alliance leaders for hurting green, I called Jonathan out on it saying he really doesn't have room to talk, he said something blatantly untrue about how he voiced his opinions against it, then I stole Bilrow's idea of posting logs from the conversations of the war showing how he's completely inaccurate. Hopefully that tl;dr helps!

[quote name='Bilrow' date='03 March 2010 - 11:06 PM' timestamp='1267679424' post='2213405'] And actually reviewing the logs you never voice any concern to the attacks on VE/CIS/NTO. As soon as I get the approval of the few remaining people around who was in the conversation, I am releasing the full logs. Happy Birthday GGA. [/quote] Oh yeah thanks for reminding me. I forgot those logs were posted to the old GGA forums! [quote]<Bilrow[GGA]> The only thing GGA is remember for... [00:34] <Bilrow[GGA]> is bringing down CNARGF [00:35] <Bilrow[GGA]> CNARF [00:35] <Bilrow[GGA]> and that was unapproved action by the alliance [00:35] <KevintheGreat> ald, we can continue on as we have, which is fine [00:35] <KevintheGreat> but boring [00:35] <Bilrow[GGA]> but it was just brought up the other day the forums [00:35] <Bilrow[GGA]> and we were mentioned as being the reason CNARF was disbaded [00:35] <KevintheGreat> i want to gamble on something again [00:35] <Bilrow[GGA]> otherwise people don't pay attention and we are invisible [00:36] <ALdbeign> again...better PR [00:36] <KevintheGreat> i really don't mind being the villan [00:36] <KevintheGreat> bad guys have more fun [00:36] <ALdbeign> i know kev... i know :P [00:36] <KevintheGreat> lol [00:36] <Bilrow[GGA]> :P [00:36] <KevintheGreat> but do you get where i'm coming from? [00:37] <Lester[GGA]> The only concern i would have with this is how we will fund such an action. [00:37] <Bilrow[GGA]> We have good pr... [00:37] <KevintheGreat> i want some action, and action that can improve our poisition is a double bonus [00:37] <Bilrow[GGA]> we are viewed like the boy next door [00:37] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> :o LESTER SPEAKS! [00:37] <Lester[GGA]> :) [00:37] <Bilrow[GGA]> and the boy next door never gets the girl [00:37] <Lester[GGA]> Bil woke me up [00:38] <KevintheGreat> lol [00:38] <Bilrow[GGA]> we are play by all the rules [00:38] <ALdbeign> i think we should engage in a heavey recruitment from these two bi alliances [00:38] <ALdbeign> *two bit [00:38] <Bilrow[GGA]> we dot our is and cross our ts [00:38] <ALdbeign> and if one of them gets pissy about it [00:38] <Bilrow[GGA]> but yet it never gets us anything [00:38] <Bilrow[GGA]> except no date to the dance [00:38] <ALdbeign> umm we are a sanctioned alliance still [00:38] <KevintheGreat> we aren't a superpower [00:39] <ALdbeign> we could have less members and a higher average and we would be higher on the ratings [00:39] <KevintheGreat> if we could edge out the competition for green recruits, we could easily become one [00:39] <Bilrow[GGA]> for example... [00:39] <Lester[GGA]> we are a hell of alot more super than we were when i joined though. [00:39] <Bilrow[GGA]> NTO is on Green Team.... [00:39] <Bilrow[GGA]> they are all old /b/ members [00:39] <KevintheGreat> i want to start a sort of monroe doctrine type deal in green [00:39] <Bilrow[GGA]> easy casus belli to attack them [00:39] <KevintheGreat> while whittling away at the smaller green alliances [00:39] <Bilrow[GGA]> I am surprised VE hasn't done it yet [b][00:40] <ALdbeign> lets hit VE [00:40] <KevintheGreat> O_o [00:40] <Bilrow[GGA]> We want to [00:40] <KevintheGreat> i never thought i'd see you say that [00:40] <Bilrow[GGA]> omg [00:40] * Bilrow[GGA] falls over dead. [00:40] * KevintheGreat falls over dead-er [00:40] <ALdbeign> id rather see that than beating on n00bs [00:40] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> well.. VE does deserve it ... or at the very least CIS... [00:40] <Bilrow[GGA]> omg [00:40] <ALdbeign> CIS is an issue also [00:41] <Bilrow[GGA]> well we were playing the wrong angle then Kevin [00:41] <Bilrow[GGA]> we take our VE and CIS first [00:41] <Bilrow[GGA]> forget the little alliance [00:41] <Bilrow[GGA]> ;p [00:41] <ALdbeign> but the rality is...you recruit through fear and you have spies out the yinyanf [00:41] <ALdbeign> *yinyang [00:41] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> / confused [00:41] * Bilrow[GGA] sigs ALdbeign. [00:41] <Bilrow[GGA]> [00:40] <ALdbeign> lets hit VE [00:42] <Bilrow[GGA]> that is so siggable [00:42] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> how so on the fear and spies? [00:43] <KevintheGreat> i don't propose recruiting on fear [00:43] <ALdbeign> but kevin yes you do [00:43] <KevintheGreat> i just want to eliminate the other options [00:43] <ALdbeign> join another green alliance besides GGA and you will get attacked[/b] [00:43] <Lester[GGA]> we have done realy well keeping spies out so far because the only deciesions are made right here and never realy posted for all to see. [00:43] <ALdbeign> well [00:43] <Bilrow[GGA]> I don't think, I think, ALdbeign is saying we should spy [00:43] <Bilrow[GGA]> <_< [00:43] <ALdbeign> the thing is we will recruit these people from their dinky alliance we destroyed [00:44] <Lester[GGA]> lol [00:44] * Bilrow[GGA] is confused too. [00:44] * Bilrow[GGA] sits by BoT. [00:44] <ALdbeign> they will secretly be looking for a way to get even [00:44] <KevintheGreat> i'm not particularly wanting to go after their current members [00:44] <ALdbeign> sure its not like AE where they can collect base locations or w/e [00:44] <KevintheGreat> if we can get them to leave green, that would be wonderful [00:45] <KevintheGreat> i want the future recruits [00:45] <ALdbeign> and that increases our recruitment base how kevin>? [00:45] <Bilrow[GGA]> right [00:45] <Bilrow[GGA]> we don't want their members [00:45] <Bilrow[GGA]> we just want them off green [00:45] <Bilrow[GGA]> so that in the future any green nation created either goes GPA or GGA [00:45] <ALdbeign> meh [00:45] <KevintheGreat> everyone new that comes into green will eventually have only two options: gpa or gga [00:45] <Lester[GGA]> cis and ve will not just leave. [00:45] <KevintheGreat> that's where the initiative comes in [00:45] <KevintheGreat> they owe us [00:46] <Bilrow[GGA]> CIS and VE have pissed on Initiative enough lately... [00:46] <ALdbeign> well killing VE will do more for raising our ranks than anything else [00:46] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> Wait...Ald said to hit VE? [00:46] <Lester[GGA]> true, very true. [00:46] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> O_o [00:46] <Bilrow[GGA]> but we will have trouble getting targets [00:46] * Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG] dies [00:46] <Bilrow[GGA]> if we don't call dibs on VE first [00:46] <KevintheGreat> we've taken our lumps for goons and npo, now they owe us [00:46] <ALdbeign> well [00:46] <ALdbeign> even if we dont get enough targets...they will still be gone...and fail the next audit to boot [00:46] * BearerofTruth[GGA] makes a note to release this to Rowan LMAOROFL [00:47] <Bilrow[GGA]> ROFL [00:47] <KevintheGreat> lol [00:47] <Lester[GGA]> :) [b][00:47] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> We set up the target list ourselves, assign people to the targets, and any excess we farm out to the other Ini alliances.[/b] [00:47] <ALdbeign> seriously... [00:47] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> That's how to fix that. [00:47] <ALdbeign> there we go...much better than being nazis [00:47] <Bilrow[GGA]> So that is a support to attack VE [00:47] * Bilrow[GGA] writes this date in history. [00:48] <ALdbeign> umm [00:48] <ALdbeign> im more than supporting it :P [00:48] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> he doing it right now? [00:48] <ALdbeign> and do ve and cis still have an mdp? [00:48] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [00:48] <Bilrow[GGA]> Are you drinking? [00:48] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> No, they don't ALdbeign [00:48] <Bilrow[GGA]> No they have no treaties [00:48] <ALdbeign> am i ever NOT drinking? :P [00:48] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> They have one. [00:48] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [00:48] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> A PIAT with TOP [00:48] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> That's it, though. [00:48] <ALdbeign> okie well thats fine [00:48] <ALdbeign> not taking both at once then [00:49] <KevintheGreat> not without initiative support [00:49] <ALdbeign> but $%&@ beating up n00bs [00:49] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I can see how VE/CIS are within reason to be attacked by us. [00:49] * Bilrow[GGA] is so confused. [00:49] <ALdbeign> just take them out and a whole world of green recruits will be there [00:49] <Bilrow[GGA]> Is tonight opposite night. [00:49] <KevintheGreat> i believe so [00:49] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> Ald has a good point. [00:49] <Bilrow[GGA]> Yes he does. [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> I can see that point. [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> but can we throw in the scum from /b/ [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> that is in NTO [00:50] <ALdbeign> sure [00:50] <Lester[GGA]> hopefully with VE/CIS out of the way or atleast being remomed will sway the smaller ones to vacate. [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> that posted all the child porno [00:50] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> ethnic cleansing... bad bad bad PR and self concious.... [00:50] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> Wait...Aldbeign and BearerofTruth[GGA] said we could attack VE? [00:50] <ALdbeign> and also [00:50] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> take out VE/CIS and stop... [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> NTO also BoT [00:50] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> we're doing what's right... [00:50] <KevintheGreat> i want to make green our playpen [00:50] <Bilrow[GGA]> they are all /b/ members [00:50] <KevintheGreat> evntually [00:50] <ALdbeign> we can do some spin [00:50] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> Yeah. [00:50] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> well.. [00:50] <ALdbeign> and help some of the other n00b aliances [00:50] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> NTO has the easiest Casus Belli of them all. [00:50] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> NTO ... there's a point... [00:51] <ALdbeign> the random little !@#$% [00:51] <ALdbeign> to show we arent trying to "cleanse" green [00:51] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> the rest will piss us off later... [00:51] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> and then maybe ... [00:51] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [00:51] <Bilrow[GGA]> any objections to [00:51] <KevintheGreat> my final vision for green is a two alliance color, with some token alliances that we control indirectly [00:51] <ALdbeign> well, mebbe they will decide they wanna be gga [00:52] <Bilrow[GGA]> if they get more than 30 votes for a sentor without our approval [00:52] <Bilrow[GGA]> they get attacked [00:52] <Bilrow[GGA]> that way GGA and GPA can hold the senate [00:52] <ALdbeign> or what kevin said [00:52] <Bilrow[GGA]> and we don't have to worry about sanctions [00:52] <ALdbeign> token alliances we control indirectly [00:52] <ALdbeign> take out the big two competitors [00:52] <Bilrow[GGA]> I'm game... [00:52] <ALdbeign> and that /b/ group [00:53] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> there ya go... [00:53] <KevintheGreat> with VE and CIS out of the way through force, the other green alliances will know to tread VERY lightly with us [00:53] <ALdbeign> and pick a couple promising newbie alliances and make them whatever cn calls a protectorate [00:53] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I can support all that... IT MUST BE PLANNED RIGHT THOUGH [00:53] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL ald... [00:53] <KevintheGreat> absolutly BoT [00:53] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> there called... PROTECTORATES [00:53] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [00:53] <ALdbeign> meh we didnt have those when i still actively played [00:54] <ALdbeign> oh and if you need another 3mil sent out ill have it tomorrow [00:54] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I have a request .... [00:54] <Bilrow[GGA]> ROFL [00:54] <KevintheGreat> yes? [00:54] <ALdbeign> as in monday ;) [00:54] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> just so I'm kept in the loop if I'm unable to log in and ask questions, though I should be able... [00:55] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> may I get a daily report in my email ? :D [00:55] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> <_< [00:55] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> once this op commences [00:55] <Bilrow[GGA]> yeah....first thing we need to do is Kevin finish the Monroe Doctrine thing... [00:55] <KevintheGreat> yeah [00:55] <Bilrow[GGA]> target lists made up for VE [00:55] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> that will also help me to the internal pr [00:55] <Bilrow[GGA]> should we do one at a time [00:55] <KevintheGreat> it's gonna have to be scrapped and reworked [00:55] <Bilrow[GGA]> or go for VE/CIS/NTO [00:56] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> well with the INI behind us... [00:56] <ALdbeign> umm the monroe doctrine was isolationist and nuetrality [00:56] <Bilrow[GGA]> We are going to call it [00:56] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> it probably doesn't matter how you take 'em [00:56] <Bilrow[GGA]> ALdbeign Doctrine [00:56] <Lester[GGA]> lol [00:56] <Bilrow[GGA]> for real [00:56] <Bilrow[GGA]> lets call it that [00:56] <Bilrow[GGA]> ;p [00:56] <ALdbeign> the GPA is more a proponent of the monroe policies [00:56] <KevintheGreat> lol nice [00:56] <ALdbeign> i will quit [00:57] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LMAO... I knew he'd say that [00:57] <Bilrow[GGA]> the BearerofTruth Doctrine [00:57] <Bilrow[GGA]> gotta make a name for him [00:57] <Bilrow[GGA]> before he retires [00:57] <ALdbeign> if kevin is writing it its his [00:57] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> um... I won't quit... but you won't like me for a long time [00:57] <Bilrow[GGA]> BearerofBilrowtheGreat Doctrine [00:57] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [00:57] <Bilrow[GGA]> EmperorBearerofBilrowtheGreat Doctrine [00:58] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> EBBG [00:58] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> sounds like and UK music channel [00:58] <KevintheGreat> lol [00:58] <ALdbeign> EmperorBearerofBilrowsthegreatschild doctrine :P [00:59] * BearerofTruth[GGA] 's brain explodes [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> time for bed... [00:59] <Bilrow[GGA]> ROFL [00:59] <KevintheGreat> lol nice [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I catch up on the warmongering tommorrow... [00:59] <Lester[GGA]> LABBK BBLAK KLABB [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> good luck with the planning.. [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> oh... [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> Lester.... [00:59] <ALdbeign> cya BoT [b][00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> what's your vote? [00:59] <Lester[GGA]> I [00:59] <Bilrow[GGA]> I vote for it [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> Bil is obviously and AYE [00:59] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> LOL [01:00] <KevintheGreat> you know how i vote [01:00] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> ON VE CIS TTO(or whoever they are) [01:00] <Bilrow[GGA]> of course I am still so confused... [01:00] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> no one else [01:00] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> and I vote. [01:00] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> aye [01:00] <KevintheGreat> me and bil don't know what the $%&@ just happened [01:00] <Bilrow[GGA]> I know. [01:00] <Bilrow[GGA]> Now lester is going to get hippy on us [01:00] <KevintheGreat> i think our months of warmongering have finally worn off on you guys [01:01] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> What the hell just happened? [01:01] * Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG] is confused [01:01] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> You guys went nuts or something? [01:01] <Lester[GGA]> we just had a unanimus vote didnt we? [01:01] <Bilrow[GGA]> yep [01:01] <KevintheGreat> looks like it [01:01] <KevintheGreat> on condition that we plan this out 100%[/b] [01:01] <Bilrow[GGA]> Jonathan I am confused... [01:01] <Bilrow[GGA]> hold me [01:01] * Bilrow[GGA] sobs. [01:01] * KevintheGreat rocks back and forth in the corner [01:01] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> and... VE CIS and those /b/ people... [01:02] <Bilrow[GGA]> and BoT gets daily emails [01:02] <Bilrow[GGA]> about the progress [01:02] <Lester[GGA]> Is that what we just voted on? <-- BoT getting emails? [01:02] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> are the only ones taken out [01:02] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> oh yes... that tooo [01:02] <Lester[GGA]> :) [01:02] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> ROFL [01:03] * BearerofTruth[GGA] cries from laughter [01:03] * Bilrow[GGA] sobs uncontrollablly. [01:03] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I think bil and ktg are going to be catonic for the next 2 months [01:03] * Lester[GGA] hands Bilrow a binky. [01:03] <Bilrow[GGA]> Thank you. [01:04] <Bilrow[GGA]> I can retire a happy Triumvirate. [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> b/c of the binky!? [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> damn... [01:04] <Lester[GGA]> lol [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> if I would have known it was that easy [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> I could have pleasured you a long time ago [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> <_< [01:04] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> >_> [01:04] <KevintheGreat> hawt [01:04] <Lester[GGA]> lol [01:04] <Lester[GGA]> night all. [01:05] <Lester[GGA]> sleepy time for this old man. [01:05] <KevintheGreat> g'night [01:05] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> night lester [01:05] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> night [01:05] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> same here.. I'm out... be careful guys... please don't help me regret the decision to AYE on this one. [01:05] <BearerofTruth[GGA]> although I have great faith in you :D [01:05] <KevintheGreat> you won't [01:05] <KevintheGreat> we will make this airtight before we go through with it [01:06] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> Yeah. [01:06] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> I don't want to become a Triumvir of a broken alliance. [01:06] * Lester[GGA] is now known as Lester[GGA]|zzz [01:06] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> So I won't let them mess it up. [01:06] <Jonathan_Brookbank[ZERG]> :P[/quote] The wonderful thing about history is that it can often speak for itself. Can't seem to find you protesting anything when the discussions came up. Sorry!

[quote name='Jonathan Brookbank' date='03 March 2010 - 06:35 PM' timestamp='1267663151' post='2213128'] I'd rather not clutter up this announcement of a happy occasion, but I have to correct you on your blatantly false statement here. First, I was not even a Triumvir at the time of the Emerald Affairs. I was still Chancellor. Second, the Emerald Affairs were Bilrow's idea, something I said I didn't like, and only let them put my name on it begrudgingly. I have since made amends with all parties involved in that situation, including being a major player in bringing VE back from the dead. Your constant attempts to smear me with lies and false statements are humorous, but you should really grow up and move on. [/quote] Reread what I wrote, I never said you started the Emerald Affairs. What I did allude to was the fact that your new alliance has taken the position in its announcements such as this one and in the Grand Global Alliance's wiki entry that the Grand Global Alliance has made mistakes when it came to handling the green team. I personally take offensive because, as a Triumvir, you did not work to put an end to Dilrow, you did not help create the United Jungle Accords, yet you play pick-and-choose with your history as well as the history of other Triumvirs. Essentially, I feel as though you've labelled former leaders of the Grand Global Alliance as oppressive to green, and tarnished my reputation as well as the reputations of my colleagues who helped conceptualize the United Jungle Accords as well as end Dilrow, neither of which you were a part of. If you've made amends with green team alliances, that's great for you, but don't continue to portray past leadership negatively in announcements like these without also acknowledging the fact that you play a very significant role in history that you want to separate from this new Grand Global Alliance. As a former Triumvir, you hold as much responsibility as I do for the Emerald Affairs. Regardless of whether or not either of us was for it or against it, one of us did a lot of meaningless talking about how much they were against it, and one of us actually did something to make amends. Keep that in mind when you label the rest of us as oppressive.

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='03 March 2010 - 12:48 AM' timestamp='1267599116' post='2212402'] Let them hang on to whatever fanciful notions make them feel better about themselves. The revisionist history may fill them with confidence, but there are few alliances that can match GGA's longevity. [/quote] Revisionist history is something funny to mention from someone who rolls with people that compare your coup to that of the coup of Prodigal Chieftain, and portray Jonathan Brookbank as some kind of freedom fighter. Something that has kind of irritated me about the recent themes of announcements and CN wiki entries from this version of the Grand Global Alliance (such as this announcemnt) is the portrayal of your devotion towards the green team, and how the past leaders of the Grand Global Alliance were oppressive to green. Look back at your history and remember which of your current leaders did nothing to stop a Grand Global Alliance monopoly on green that you guys retrospectively speak out against (hint: it was Brookbank). Also remember who ended Dilrow and helped establish the United Jungle Accords (hint: Myself, Sognatore, Bilrow, etc.). Just bear that in mind every time you write about your devotion to green and our oppression on it. That being said, I wish a happy birthday to the Grand Global Alliance. Even though this alliance only carries the name Grand Global Alliance and not its history, it's nice to remember the old alliance that a lot of us put a good deal of time and effort into on what would have been its fourth birthday.

[quote name='Dementual' date='01 March 2010 - 08:12 PM' timestamp='1267496174' post='2210651'] Nice spin. By that same logic, the Coup of the First Triumvirate could have been considered to have the same intention of putting a couple people in power by deposing of the legitimate leadership. Whereas [i]actually[/i], both happened to prevent the alliance from ultimately falling apart. So let's move to a topic that's actually debatable now. [/quote] Let's set aside the fact that your coup to "help" the alliance has, so far, only produced a hemorrhage of the membership. You really can't spin that, so don't bother, Jonathan. Prodigal Chieftain's Grand Global Alliance did not have the same kind of provisions to keep their leader in check that the Grand Global Alliance you overthrew did. When his interests no longer matched the interests of the alliance, he was ousted. From there, provisions were put into place to have a governing body (Elder Statesman) who could remove Triumvirs no longer fit to lead (for example, Jonathan Brookbank). At the same time, the Grand Global Alliance you guys overthrew actually held elections to gauge if members would be willing to undergo a major change to fix the alliance. It was turned down, and you still overthrew them. No, the coups are not the same. Also, it's hard to interpret your actions in that noble light when you were propositioning for the title of Emperor before the coup, and then having you ultimately take over anyways after that vote failed. Even better, Roy's justification for overthrowing the government regardless of the desire of Grand Global Alliance members is that the members were ignorant. I'm amazed how completely disconnected from reality you guys seem to be in handling this.

[quote name='Sir Sci' date='01 March 2010 - 06:45 PM' timestamp='1267490957' post='2210541'] Isn't the history of the GGA to have coups, and successful ones at that? If you want to restore the history, identity, and charter of the GGA, than bring back the Emperor and try and see if you can get P_C back somehow. [/quote] Ignoring the fact that PC represented a few months of GGA from 2006, which is a small fraction of the total time the alliance has existed, the 2006 coup and this one had a fundamental difference. The coup of PC occurred because one person felt he was above the alliance and its charter, while this coup's intention was to overthrow the charter and essentially put a couple people above the alliance itself.

[quote name='Byron Orpheus' date='01 March 2010 - 10:45 AM' timestamp='1267462131' post='2209983'] Calling this a coup, while convenient for the sake of terminology, is incorrect. It should be referred to as a rescuing, a renaissance, a revival, as anything other than a coup and all the negativity that accompanies such action. There is no negativity within the new GGA, and we are all working hard to develop an improved GGA that will return the alliance and its members to its former glory. [/quote] There really isn't another name to give to the actions of a few people to eradicate the charter and install themselves as leaders, especially after some of their proposals to install themselves as leaders were voted down by the membership before the coup. I'm not seeing a ton of support for these underhanded tactics to take control of an alliance in public spectrum, and a good deal of members are leaving, suggesting internal instability. The Grand Global Alliance has lost its charter, identity, and history as a result of this coup. The only thing you retain is a couple willing members, a lot of apathetic nations, and the name Grand Global Alliance, a name in which your claim to it is debatable at best. So, I'm really not sure how it's much of a renaissance.

[quote name='JimKongIl' date='28 February 2010 - 10:32 PM' timestamp='1267418173' post='2209450'] Ok, I am a bit puzzled by this. It takes more than erasing a forum to take over an alliance. For a coup to work you need military power or political power derived from the support of the membership. So far I see neither. Either the membership embraces the coup and welcome the new leaders or you declare them invaders and they summarily expelled or executed. If the members voted against a government change and you took it by force who supports this other than the new government and people outside the alliance? If your legitimacy comes solely from the apathy of the GGA members then I have as much legitimate claim to power as you three, correct? I'd really like to hear more from the current and former GGA membership on this subject. [/quote] Exactly what I've been saying I know some treaties carried over, which is by extension a recognition of the coup by other alliances. But, in terms of the membership, hard to say if they've accepted this new government as legitimate. Obviously losing over a quarter of your membership base in a week plus the public outrage from members doesn't speak well in favor of the coup. It seems people who are openly against it are just leaving rather than voicing their opinions. But, considering it's a change to a charter that all members, regardless of rank or position, are asked to abide by when joining, it seems like they should have a say in whether or not this new government should be accepted. Considering that a vote took place towards replacing the government and it failed when put to membership, it was a pretty classless move by the perpetrators of the coup to basically pull a Father Knows Best maneuver on the members. Hopefully any respectful member of the Grand Global Alliance that's left will either leave or stand up against this. In my opinion, forcing yourselves into leadership killed the legitimacy of your so-called noble campaign to fix the alliance, and the only way that the alliance at this point could recover itself at all is through its members taking the initiative instead of a few people making a power grab. Oh and for the record, Roy Mustang's justification for the coup regardless of the vote against it because the discussion was concentrated more on personal attacks against Dementual and Roy is a pretty lame excuse.

I'm kind of disturbed by a lot of this in more ways than I could convey. Did things really get that bad? And if so, why did you refuse my help? Also, I really wasn't satisfied at all by that justification for why the removal of Scotch and KungFuHamster was legal. I would REALLY love someone to explain how you get past that needing a 2/3rds council vote to remove a Triumvir if you're removing 2/3rds of the council.

Believe me, I'd be the last one to want to defend the Grand Global Alliance right now, but I'm going to because of this comment. I like the Greenland Republic, I like your leaders, but I have no hesitation ripping one of their members a new one for comments like these. I know it's fun to bandwagon on an alliance that's struggling (I'm guilty of doing it to plenty of alliances, GGA included), but comments like these just irritate me. Some people bring at least moderate intelligence into their posts when discussing these issues, such as what an alliance is doing wrong, what they can do to fix it, etc.. Other people I think just enjoy hearing themselves talk (or seeing themselves type), and end up coming across as ignorant because they jump on a bandwagon without really thinking about it. You've unfortunately fallen completely under the latter group of people. It gets old reading blatant posts with a lack of substance from people, and when it dives into making a stupid comment about an entire group of people, it comes off quite poorly. The worst post I've seen by a member of the Grand Global Alliance (Silverhawk's "We don't need WRCs because we have the NPO") was fairly terrible, but at least it was an informed opinion from his viewpoint (even if it came off poorly to the rest of us) rather than running his mouth to make a post that fits in conjunction with the other non-opinionated, mindless posts. That being said, don't take what I say personally. I'd love to read something you write and respect it for being an informed opinion, but I'm not going to off of your posts in this thread. I just felt the need to address it since I was wearing glasses while reading your post. I forgot I was wearing them when I facepalmed, and now there's a nasty indentation on my face from those glasses Your penchant for conspiracy theories continues to give me migraines, even after two years of knowing you Personally, I know degenerate is prideful and intelligent, and the issues that have become a problem for the Grand Global Alliance got to him I'm sure. It's both mentally and emotionally draining to see these issues occur and to be essentially powerless to make the necessary change. It takes three people to run a Triumvirate, and when they're all on a completely different page (as it's been internally for almost a year), nothing gets done. I'm sure degenerate made a last-ditch effort to right the path before he bowed out, and (regardless of the legality, or lack thereof), I praise him for having the spine to do what he feels was right (even if I disagree with both the ends and the means). As for ironchef, I've never taken her for someone who plans these elaborate conspiracies (Hai Max). I'm sure her involvement is due to a lack of qualified candidates as well as the fact that she's relatively unwavering when faced with these pressures and realities. Her priority is to do exactly what she needs to do, and doesn't let criticisms, restrictions, or the realities of a situation get in the way. Whether or not that's a good thing I don't know, but it's certainly both greatly helped her and hurt her, as well as kept her around long after others have left due to lack of faith or energy. Shane's still fairly fresh, and has the will and energy to fix things. Regardless, I hope you guys figure things out. I wholeheartedly disagree with what's happened lately as well as what you're planning to do, but ultimately it's your decision. I hope it works out.

Can you refresh us as to how degenerate's replacement is being selected?

Very true, Scotch may just be protesting his removal in public and voting for it in private to throw us off. Damn him