Grand Global Alliance Terms of Surrender

[Virillus]

Wing Chun: You've made your point now drop it - We'll have words in private.

Let it be known that GR wholeheartedly supports with these terms, and the conduct displayed by the participant alliances.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Virillus

[Max Rockatansky]

I'm sorry, but voicing my opinion isn't disrespect. I apologize if the subject is sensitive to you, but this is how I feel. I have also said that Athens is not the problem here. They are receiving reparations here. And also, what kind of world is it where your friends can't tell you that they disagree with your decisions. Isn't the shroud of "private channels ftw" one of the things we are fighting against? Get it out in the open. It's the only way to really get things worked out.

Asking for fair reps to be paid isn't screaming for blood. How many times do I have to explain this?

That's cool. Perhaps I came off a little harsh, but we are all walking a pretty fine line here. And you're right. I apologize if I came off as harsh. It's been a rough couple of days. I hear you're a pretty good dude. Perhaps you should read some of my Essays in the World Affairs arena. I think you'll dig it. So in short, my bad.

[Andre27]

Yes you really set that bar high with your first post in this thread implying that this wasn't a real victory.

I suggest you read again. I never said it wasn't a victory for Athens and its allies.

Your false courtesy is as transparent as your attempt to spit on the winners.

False courtesy?

It'll be fun to see how you do without big daddy holding your hand anymore. It'll be the first time GGA have to stand on their own legs and I don't have a shadow of a doubt that you will fall.

Get ready to be surprised. Now let's return to the celebrations since talking grudges serves no purpose really.

ooc:It's from the final fantasy games.

FFTA that's where i saw it.

[neneko]

I suggest you read again. I never said it wasn't a victory for Athens and its allies.

I can quote you if it makes it easier to remember what you said.

Congratulations i guess, but i hardly consider taking a win with 13, 14 or 15 (lost count) alliances against 1 an impressive feat.

If you feel that this is showing courtesy to the winners then I can see how you can say that gga never ridiculed any alliance without starting to laugh.

[Wing Chun Stunna]

That's cool. Perhaps I came off a little harsh, but we are all walking a pretty fine line here. And you're right. I apologize if I came off as harsh. It's been a rough couple of days. I hear you're a pretty good dude. Perhaps you should read some of my Essays in the World Affairs arena. I think you'll dig it. So in short, my bad.

Hugglez!! Sorry if I cam off a little strong as well. As you can tell, I will probably never work foreign affairs. And I'll have to check out those essays sometime when I get a chance.

And to all else, sorry if I'm letting my disdain for GGA stink up your peace party. I will bow out and let you guys get back to your keg.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Wing Chun Stunna

[Doc Taco]

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

[Ephriam Grey]

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

GGA hasn't been the main power on green for a good while.

[Andre27]

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

We work together with VE and OV (and others) in the UJA to avoid conflicts in the senate.

[astronaut jones]

GGA hasn't been the main power on green for a good while.

I'm sure the gremlins are just thrilled.

[neneko]

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

I can't see them upholding their might makes right policies now that they can't get backed up by NPO. They're a colony without a owner right now and won't be able to force anyone into submission for quite some time, if ever.

[Andre27]

I can't see them upholding their might makes right policies now that they can't get backed up by NPO. They're a colony without a owner right now and won't be able to force anyone into submission for quite some time, if ever.

For crying out loud, we get it. You think we're a spineless lapdog. Luckily we know better. I know our alliances don't exactly share hugs and kisses, but your constant behavior in this topic for celebration is poor show.

The UJA was not forced down anyone's throat. Every signatory benefits from stability on the green sphere.

[MercyFallout]

OOC: The creature in FlakAttacks's sig is a Tonberry. It is in most of the Final Fantasy games.

IC: *sigh* I won't comment on the terms, but I was having a lot of fun beating the life out of GGA nations.

Edited May 13, 2009 by MercyFallout

[Randleman]

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

UJA my friend. Signed Apr 30 2008

[neneko]

For crying out loud, we get it. You think we're a spineless lapdog. Luckily we know better. I know our alliances don't exactly share hugs and kisses, but your constant behavior in this topic for celebration is poor show.

The UJA was not forced down anyone's throat. Every signatory benefits from stability on the green sphere.

The UJA is forced anybodies throat that want to run for senator. Signatory or not. It's stated in the UJA.

ii. By obtaining the position of Senator, a nation automatically recognizes its inherent duty to abide by the terms of this Accord, whether it be officially affiliated or not.

How anyone can have the duty to abide by a document they did not sign is beyond me. UJA is a aged document from back when the hegemony owned the rights to the green sphere and forced alliances they did not like out from it. It's a document that should be burned along with the rest of the hegemony relics.

As for our two alliances stance I'm fairly sure Umbrella got no problem with gga. I don't speak for umbrella. I come from a line of alliances where we or our allies have been pushed around by gga so I won't beat around the bushes with that you're not my favorite alliance on bob. That's all on me though, not umbrella.

What got me to post in this thread though was your arrogance you had when posting in your own surrender thread. You still act like you have daddy around to fight for you and that's understandable because it's been that way for 3 years. I for one hope you keep your arrogance up though. I'd love nothing more than to see you think you'll be fine as long as you cling on to npo.

You've wronged alot of alliances through the years and if you think that these 2500 tech reps was what was 'comming around' you're sorely mistaken.

Edited May 13, 2009 by neneko

[Max Rockatansky]

The UJA is forced anybodies throat that want to run for senator. Signatory or not. It's stated in the UJA.

How anyone can have the duty to abide by a document they did not sign is beyond me. UJA is a aged document from back when the hegemony owned the rights to the green sphere and forced alliances they did not like out from it. It's a document that should be burned along with the rest of the hegemony relics.

As for our two alliances stance I'm fairly sure Umbrella got no problem with gga. I don't speak for umbrella. I come from a line of alliances where we or our allies have been pushed around by gga so I won't beat around the bushes with that you're not my favorite alliance on bob. That's all on me though, not umbrella.

What got me to post in this thread though was your arrogance you had when posting in your own surrender thread. You still act like you have daddy around to fight for you and that's understandable because it's been that way for 3 years. I for one hope you keep your arrogance up though. I'd love nothing more than to see you think you'll be fine as long as you cling on to npo.

You've wronged alot of alliances through the years and if you think that these 2500 tech reps was what was 'comming around' you're sorely mistaken.

I was in VE when UJA was getting signed(Gino Felino, ftw!) and I'm telling ya it didn't happen that way and you really should ask people who know how it works. I understand you're angry and you don't like the way things have been going, but this isn't the way to do it. Threats and chest thumping don't get anyone anywhere as we've been seeing these days. Look at what it got NPO? Be the better person and let it go. Or don't. I for one have decided that it's a far better thing to gain respect than hold grudges. I've gotten more accomplished, I'll tell you that.

[Degenerate108]

That argument sounds eerily familiar. They did what they had to do period and if you were on the losing side and were given harsh reps I am sure you would be arguing about how excessive the victors were. Again Athens took what they felt they were owed, no one else felt they were owed anything, who are you to try and push your agenda on these alliances on how they should handle peace for the war they fought?

Sounds a bit hegemonic

Hey, you do realize you're in Greenland Republic right(unless you're not)? You are also no doubt aware that Greenland Republic are our allies right? Alright then, chill out. Read my last post. Have a smoke(or not) and try this again(or don't). Either way man, enough disrespect. I've said it once I'll say it again. Screaming for the blood of a beaten alliance is pretty cowardly. If those quotes don't do it for you how about this one from our fallen prophet Phil Anselmo(with guitars supplied by Dimebag The God of Shred) "Yesterday don't mean !@#$. What's over is over and nothing between."

You guys continue to impress the hell outta me, I'm sure thesame can be said for the rest of my govt.

Tell me this, does GGA still get to "call" who gets a Green Senate seat? Or did that fall by wayside some time ago?

It's been a good long while since we controlled the green senate.

We work together with VE and OV (and others) in the UJA to avoid conflicts in the senate.

Even during this war we remained respectful of both OV and VE and even to our hippie tree planting friends GPA () I know they could back up that statement.

I can't see them upholding their might makes right policies now that they can't get backed up by NPO. They're a colony without a owner right now and won't be able to force anyone into submission for quite some time, if ever.

To be fair reading from page 10 to here I've seen a lot of "GGA forced alliances off green and asked for stupid reps in the past damn them all!"

As the eldest serving Triumvir this is my first war (14-1 i knew i had that gunboat for a reason), None of the current Triumvirate have:

- Signed anything but treaty upgrades (the only one that actually comes to mind is MDAP with valhalla)

- This Govt. has never participated in extortion.

- This Govt. has never wanted anything but unity on the Green sphere both for the good of the senate and for the free trading.

- This govt.'s only real claim to bad PR was due entirely to our inexperience and having a lot of our internal dirty laundry aired for the masses.

A lot of you label us as if we've been the same govt. for the past four years. Not only are we not, but we have taken proactive steps in removing ourselves from that position for months. Somehow it's either not enough or it falls on deaf ears. In that sense though your no better than what you've hated. This incarnation of the GGA govt. is the same as before this war, only we've learned some valuable lessons and we're not as in experienced as we were three, four, six, eight months ago.

You can continue to troll us for the sake of trolling us, but guys like Athens who've actually dealt with our govt. and know what the hell they're talking about shouldn't be getting flak for treating us with some dignity. As i said before we're not the same govt. from three years ago.

[neneko]

I was in VE when UJA was getting signed(Gino Felino, ftw!) and I'm telling ya it didn't happen that way and you really should ask people who know how it works. I understand you're angry and you don't like the way things have been going, but this isn't the way to do it. Threats and chest thumping don't get anyone anywhere as we've been seeing these days. Look at what it got NPO? Be the better person and let it go. Or don't. I for one have decided that it's a far better thing to gain respect than hold grudges. I've gotten more accomplished, I'll tell you that.

I'm sure UJA have worked great so far but it's still a document that take away other green alliances sovereignty by forcing a document on them that they did not sign. A green alliance should be able to get a senate position without having to obey the rules of other alliances. What the intentions with the document or how it worked doesn't matter at all though. The part I quoted in my earlier post shows that it's forced upon every green alliance, signatory or not and that's just not right.

[neneko]

To be fair reading from page 10 to here I've seen a lot of "GGA forced alliances off green and asked for stupid reps in the past damn them all!"

As the eldest serving Triumvir this is my first war (14-1 i knew i had that gunboat for a reason), None of the current Triumvirate have:

- Signed anything but treaty upgrades (the only one that actually comes to mind is MDAP with valhalla)

- This Govt. has never participated in extortion.

- This Govt. has never wanted anything but unity on the Green sphere both for the good of the senate and for the free trading.

- This govt.'s only real claim to bad PR was due entirely to our inexperience and having a lot of our internal dirty laundry aired for the masses.

A lot of you label us as if we've been the same govt. for the past four years. Not only are we not, but we have taken proactive steps in removing ourselves from that position for months. Somehow it's either not enough or it falls on deaf ears. In that sense though your no better than what you've hated. This incarnation of the GGA govt. is the same as before this war, only we've learned some valuable lessons and we're not as in experienced as we were three, four, six, eight months ago.

You can continue to troll us for the sake of trolling us, but guys like Athens who've actually dealt with our govt. and know what the hell they're talking about shouldn't be getting flak for treating us with some dignity. As i said before we're not the same govt. from three years ago.

Apparently you can't be that strongly opposed to what they did since you still have both Emperor Lester II and BearerofTruth as advisors and I think I've seen their names on pretty much every document that forced alliances off color or extorted reps from innocent alliances. I don't blame you though. They did get you an awful lot of tech for such a small alliance.

Edited May 13, 2009 by neneko

[Degenerate108]

I'm sure UJA have worked great so far but it's still a document that take away other green alliances sovereignty by forcing a document on them that they did not sign. A green alliance should be able to get a senate position without having to obey the rules of other alliances. What the intentions with the document or how it worked doesn't matter at all though. The part I quoted in my earlier post shows that it's forced upon every green alliance, signatory or not and that's just not right.

You are mistaken iFOK comes to mind, They still have a representative in our UJA channel, and are allowed to speak freely (they were even in there while we were at war with them). The UJA contains a NAP and admission is easy to obtain. Most importantly as in iFOK's case and they can tell you this themselves the UJA doesn't make them conform to anything even though they aren't a signatory. The current UJA even has a joint protectorate agreement in it to help foster growth for new green alliances.

No one is forced into conforming to it, if they don't agree than so be it. The UJA isn't about making people on the green sphere like each other, it's about promoting growth and bringing trades into the sphere as well as maintaining the peace. Its about the least war mongering treaty out there, NPO declares on OV, VE declares in support of OV, GGA declares on the side of the NPO against Athens, iFOK declares in defense of athens.

What the UJA did through that was exactly what it was supposed to do.

At no time did VE, GGA or OV threaten to sanction wildly, at no time did anyone threaten to pull out their members from trade circles with people on the "other side" and at no time did anyone threaten the position of other signatories and their status within the UJA.

Bottom line the UJA allowed us to be neutral towards each other for the sake of our sphere. Whats wrong with that?

[Roadie]

You are mistaken iFOK comes to mind, They still have a representative in our UJA channel, and are allowed to speak freely (they were even in there while we were at war with them). The UJA contains a NAP and admission is easy to obtain. Most importantly as in iFOK's case and they can tell you this themselves the UJA doesn't make them conform to anything even though they aren't a signatory. The current UJA even has a joint protectorate agreement in it to help foster growth for new green alliances.

No one is forced into conforming to it, if they don't agree than so be it. The UJA isn't about making people on the green sphere like each other, it's about promoting growth and bringing trades into the sphere as well as maintaining the peace. Its about the least war mongering treaty out there, NPO declares on OV, VE declares in support of OV, GGA declares on the side of the NPO against Athens, iFOK declares in defense of athens.

What the UJA did through that was exactly what it was supposed to do.

At no time did VE, GGA or OV threaten to sanction wildly, at no time did anyone threaten to pull out their members from trade circles with people on the "other side" and at no time did anyone threaten the position of other signatories and their status within the UJA.

Bottom line the UJA allowed us to be neutral towards each other for the sake of our sphere. Whats wrong with that?

I'll tell you what's wrong with that. GGA is ebil so no matter what, everything they've ever done or will do is ebil. You ebil, ebil man, you.

[Degenerate108]

Apparently you can't be that strongly opposed to what they did since you still have both Emperor Lester II and BearerofTruth as advisors and I think I've seen their names on pretty much every document that forced alliances off color or extorted reps from innocent alliances. I don't blame you though. They did get you an awful lot of tech for such a small alliance.

Thats a pretty weak argument at best. Emperor Lester for instance i have met a handful of times, always very short and i don't remember the last time he was actually on IRC. beareroftruth is in the same boat. They are rightfully in their place as elders (retired govt.) neither of whom partake in any decision making. All votes, and decisions are made by KungFuHamster, Scotchwithrocks, and myself.

Holding us accountable because of a technicality within our signatures is a bit near sighted.

[neneko]

You are mistaken iFOK comes to mind, They still have a representative in our UJA channel, and are allowed to speak freely (they were even in there while we were at war with them). The UJA contains a NAP and admission is easy to obtain. Most importantly as in iFOK's case and they can tell you this themselves the UJA doesn't make them conform to anything even though they aren't a signatory. The current UJA even has a joint protectorate agreement in it to help foster growth for new green alliances.

No one is forced into conforming to it, if they don't agree than so be it. The UJA isn't about making people on the green sphere like each other, it's about promoting growth and bringing trades into the sphere as well as maintaining the peace. Its about the least war mongering treaty out there, NPO declares on OV, VE declares in support of OV, GGA declares on the side of the NPO against Athens, iFOK declares in defense of athens.

What the UJA did through that was exactly what it was supposed to do.

At no time did VE, GGA or OV threaten to sanction wildly, at no time did anyone threaten to pull out their members from trade circles with people on the "other side" and at no time did anyone threaten the position of other signatories and their status within the UJA.

Bottom line the UJA allowed us to be neutral towards each other for the sake of our sphere. Whats wrong with that?

If nobody is forced to conform to it I'd like to know exactly what point two in the second accord means

ii. By obtaining the position of Senator, a nation automatically recognizes its inherent duty to abide by the terms of this Accord, whether it be officially affiliated or not.

The way it looks to me is that if a alliance wants to have a senator on green they have to obey the rules of UJA wether they're a signatory or not. I'd say that's clearly forcing them to conform. It doesn't matter if admission is easy to obtain alliances shouldn't be forced to agree to your rules to be allowed a senator on the green team.

Thats a pretty weak argument at best. Emperor Lester for instance i have met a handful of times, always very short and i don't remember the last time he was actually on IRC. beareroftruth is in the same boat. They are rightfully in their place as elders (retired govt.) neither of whom partake in any decision making. All votes, and decisions are made by KungFuHamster, Scotchwithrocks, and myself.

Holding us accountable because of a technicality within our signatures is a bit near sighted.

I'd hardly call your advisors and co-signers being the very people you claim isn't in the gov a technicality but sure lets go for that. That aside you still have basically the same membership that supported the previous leaders and the fact that you've punished alliances for crimes not made by their current government over and over in the past hanging over your head when you claim that the current GGA have no responsibility for the crimes GGA have commited in the past.

[Momonishiki]

I'm only here to express gratitude and respect to the nations who fought against my nation (Daikanyama). I was fortunate to get to know some of you a little bit, and I plan to carry that forwards by installing myself as GGA's ambassador to MASH. Perhaps something good will come out of the contacts made during conflict.

[Flonker]

I'm only here to express gratitude and respect to the nations who fought against my nation (Daikanyama). I was fortunate to get to know some of you a little bit, and I plan to carry that forwards by installing myself as GGA's ambassador to MASH. Perhaps something good will come out of the contacts made during conflict.

We're glad to see you, and have important information in your embassy, if you'd be so kind to look at it. One of your members is in danger.

[Degenerate108]

If nobody is forced to conform to it I'd like to know exactly what point two in the second accord means

The way it looks to me is that if a alliance wants to have a senator on green they have to obey the rules of UJA wether they're a signatory or not. I'd say that's clearly forcing them to conform. It doesn't matter if admission is easy to obtain alliances shouldn't be forced to agree to your rules to be allowed a senator on the green team.

I'd hardly call your advisors and co-signers being the very people you claim isn't in the gov a technicality but sure lets go for that. That aside you still have basically the same membership that supported the previous leaders and the fact that you've punished alliances for crimes not made by their current government over and over in the past hanging over your head when you claim that the current GGA have no responsibility for the crimes GGA have commited in the past.

It means don't go rogue and sanction a bunch of green nations on a whim, basically. That goes for both VE and GGA as well. If someone can't handle that the action we would most likely take is voting the offender out of senate. The evil of it all i know.

Elder Statesmen is made up of ex-Triumvirate members who stepped down in good standing and other members of the alliance by invite, they do not have any political power, however, do serve as advisors to the Holy Triumvirate.

I think that's what your referring to. the work of the advisors really falls on sognatore, ironchef and shaneprice as they are the active elders, anyone with any credibility (not looking to start a fight) would be more than aware of who our active elders are. Even Vox knew which elders were the ones who were around. I am aware our charter states they are advisors even if they're inactive, but i can assure you their silence as well as their general not being around do hinder going forward with any of their secret agendas. Bottom line they did retire in good standing and they were appointed their rightful position within the alliance.

As far as the same membership, again not true, our membership has changed dramatically over the last three years, my time alone in the GGA i can say there's a fraction of who there used to be. Just as any other alliance. I myself have never "punished" an alliancefor crimes not made by their current govt. neither have KungFuHamster or Scotchwithrocks. Actually we've never punished anyone at all.

You have yet to show just cause for attacking this current govt. with any evidence of our wrong doing. Not that im expecting you to, if it's your desire to hate us, you're going to regardless.

Edited May 13, 2009 by Degenerate108