Dispatch from LoSS, Nemesis, TSO, TOP, Umbrella..

[Umar ibn Abd al-Aziz]

I only ate 6, and none from BAPS :<

and Umar, I was asked to not discuss that, and I will honor that request.

Ah, I see. Perhaps a representative from LoSS could clarify the matter then?

[Dr. Dan]

Ah, I see. Perhaps a representative from LoSS could clarify the matter then?

I'll clarify it for you in private.

The doctor has now awakened from his nappy.

[Khyber]

I'll clarify it for you in private.

The doctor has now awakened from his nappy.

Is nappy your official diagnosis of what you awakened from doctor?

[Sabioviejo]

I'll clarify it for you in private.

The doctor has now awakened from his nappy.

You just had to much alcohol .

[Diomede]

Glad to see the open confrontation seems to be dying down. Congratulations on attaining peace, BAPS.

[Kevin Cash]

i am pleased to see that the previous pattern of extortion among karma has, at least with the most recent surrenders, seemingly been retracted.

these are good terms, congratulations baps

[Lord Emares]

Just some quick notes:

The help of a 60k ave NS alliance in fighting a 15k ave NS alliance of 57 nations must have been absolutely needed for victory.

We were circa 35k ANS before TOP's entrance into the war not 15k ANS.

But perhaps all of the nations that took first strike nukes in LoSS and Nem might have benefitted from some reps. It wasn't their descision to go to war.

As I recall LoSS and Nem didn't declare war on BAPS. When someone declares an offensive war on your alliance and then starts a nuclear war, reps are a pretty standard thing to agree upon.

As LoSS had informed Legion that they fight "nukes free". Not going nukes free against an alliance that has stated that they fight nukes free is insanely stupid. Additionally as Legion had already been nuked our decision was already made for us.

The decision to go Weapons Free against all was due to the fact that we felt that we would get nuked by all once we went nuke free against one, and since that one would most likely already be nuke free against us as per their policy on nuke fighting...logic can only conclude that going nuke free against all is what should be done.

Finally we entered the war on the defensive clause of Poseidon not the agressive clause. This was not an offensive war on BAPS part due to the fact that the parties attacking Legion enacted the oA clauses of their MDoAPs to enter the war:

Article V, Item B. Defense obligations are optional if the militarily engaged party acted upon a separate defense obligation.

Article V, Item C. Either signatory may ask the countersigned to provide financial and/or military assistance, towards a military engagement initiated by the inquiring signatory. However, such assistance is voluntary.

Nemesis formally declared war upon the Legion, during that time they also requested our assistance. Effective immediately, we enact "Back to Black accords" and recognise a state of war with the Legion and Aura Borialis.

Yet most of my conversations with BAPS said that they were not going to leave the war until Valhalla was given peace.

Now, what do attacking LoSS and Nem have to do with Valhalla? Any particular reason why your government felt it nessesary to continue an offensive nuclear war against alliances for which your reason for entering the war had already been granted peace?

Since Posiedon's Defensive Clause was activated due to the oA declarations of LoSS and Nemesis we could not leave the war in good concience until all signatories to Posiedon had been given peace.

Bottom line, BAPS engaged in an offensive nuclear war against alliances and remained in the war dispite their reason for entry already given peace.

We engaged in a nuclear war yes, but it was a defensive nuclear war not an offensive one. We also engaged first strike nukes due to the fact that LoSS had a stated nuke free policy during the wider conflict. If we hadn't LoSS would have done so first against us.

Aside from all of that I had fun with my LoSS/Nem opponents and we engaged in a nuclear exchange program for much of the war. Peace is good and now on to the rebuilding for all.

Edited May 11, 2009 by Lord Emares

[New Reverie]

i am pleased to see that the previous pattern of extortion commonly used by the Hegemony has, at least with the most recent surrenders, seemingly been ended by Karma.

these are good terms, congratulations baps

Fixed for you.

[moshea]

i think he is saying they offered LoSS and Nem a chance to surrender?

No, that was the case.

Instead I suggested that we would be open to discussing peacing out the LoSS/Nemesis front, but only in the context of wanting to continue to fight with those alliances who were continuing to war with our allies. The discussion never got very far. But twas more a cessastion of hostilities which was in mind.

I said, "as expected" previously, because I'd have been surprised if any alliance on the winning side would have looked to explore getting out, before their own allies. They didn't. But could have though.

Anyhoo, tis all done and dusted at this stage. Thanks again to all involved for the good fight.

o/ Peace

[Irregular Apocalypse]

we have girls in our ranks too

The guy in the wig and the halter top isn't fooling anyone.

Hey! I resemble that remark! (well... ImaNewbie's, not yours I hasten to add. That'd just be too disturbing an image)

Edited May 11, 2009 by Irregular Apocalypse

[Kevin Cash]

Fixed for you.

please list the surrender terms from this war in which the 'hegemony' has extorted anyone. actually, please show me where any alliance surrendered at all to 'hegemony' this war.

[Diego the Dog]

PS, Nice fighting BAPS, who won the causality race in the end?

Despite your help there Sitethief i got pipped

Nobody Expects: 812,099 Attacking + 1,159,844 Defending = 1,971,943 Casualties

Diego the Dog 786,221 Attacking + 1,039,235 Defending = 1,825,456 Casualties

Also as regards Nuke first striking

We did have an exposed attempt at a nuke spy attack before the first nuke flew (i know this cause it was my nuke they tried to spy ) we do regard this as a first strike so we were actually countering.

That said I am sure we still would have nuked as per reasons already explained (and they are fun )

Edited May 12, 2009 by Diego the Dog

[Crispy99]

Also as regards Nuke first striking

We did have an exposed attempt at a nuke spy attack before the first nuke flew (i know this cause it was my nuke they tried to spy ) we do regard this as a first strike so we were actually countering.

That said I am sure we still would have nuked as per reasons already explained (and they are fun )

After looking at the spy logs after being presented with this that very night, I can confirm one of our very own did initiate with a spy attempt on their nukes. It is also funny to note who it was

Edited May 12, 2009 by Crispy99

[Van Hoo III]

So many elaborate variations on 'no u!', it's heart warming.

Luckily our friends know the truth behind how we operate and that's all that really matters, right? Nemesis, sadly(!) you'll never fall under that category so you'll just have to make do with wildly inaccurate assumptions, but it seems that's the way you like it so everyones a winner.

Feel free to proceed, I'll be cowering behind my pixels and plotting betrayal.

I almost regret rushing to the aid of Nemesis.......

Oh, I'm listening (reading). And what I am learning is neither flattering about you or your alliance.

To be fair, Nemesis does not have a unified opinion on TOP as an alliance. As an alliance that not only supports individuals speaking their minds, but encourages it, you will find that there will be those who dislike TOP completely and those who think the world of you ... that goes for several alliances we are not allied to.

Understanding that, you should probably not make a blanket statement about Nemesis as a whole nor should you form an opinion based on a handful of members and their public comments.

I still have yet to hear what LoSS and Nemesis wanted in this peace and didn't get.

As previously stated, Nemesis wanted white peace and LoSS did not. While we did not want the same thing, we support our allies and their opinions on the matter and would have rather had terms they were more comfortable with. I was there for the bulk of the last conversation between LoSS, TOP, and TSO and did not witness any strong arm tactics at the time. I will say, however, that I am a little shocked that terms were agreed upon so quickly when the two sides seemed very far apart as of last night when I had to depart.

Either way, I personally like BAPS and am glad they are no longer at war with us.

Edit: Punctuation.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Van Hoo III

[Orkules]

I'm not in the habit of taking counsel from fools.

Spider is no fool and you more appear the fool for this statement.

[Monster]

As previously stated, Nemesis wanted white peace and LoSS did not. While we did not want the same thing, we support our allies and their opinions on the matter and would have rather had terms they were more comfortable with. I was there for the bulk of the last conversation between LoSS, TOP, and TSO and did not witness any strong arm tactics at the time. I will say, however, that I am a little shocked that terms were agreed upon so quickly when the two sides seemed very far apart as of last night when I had to depart.

Either way, I personally like BAPS and am glad they are no longer at war with us.

Edit: Punctuation.

I was there at the last meeting as well and I didn't see any strong arming either. We worked on reaching a compromise and that's where it ended up. There were other meetings so I can't be sure.

[Orkules]

EDIT: Having not seen it myself, said comment was out of line.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Orkules

[Nananana]

yeah, we're pretty awesome.

BAPS, you guys fought well.

[Kiss Goodbye]

To be fair, Nemesis does not have a unified opinion on TOP as an alliance. As an alliance that not only supports individuals speaking their minds, but encourages it, you will find that there will be those who dislike TOP completely and those who think the world of you ... that goes for several alliances we are not allied to.

Understanding that, you should probably not make a blanket statement about Nemesis as a whole nor should you form an opinion based on a handful of members and their public comments.

As previously stated, Nemesis wanted white peace and LoSS did not. While we did not want the same thing, we support our allies and their opinions on the matter and would have rather had terms they were more comfortable with. I was there for the bulk of the last conversation between LoSS, TOP, and TSO and did not witness any strong arm tactics at the time. I will say, however, that I am a little shocked that terms were agreed upon so quickly when the two sides seemed very far apart as of last night when I had to depart.

Either way, I personally like BAPS and am glad they are no longer at war with us.

Edit: Punctuation.

Likewise, opinion in TOP is not universally biased against any one alliance. You know that our leadership has a ton of respect for you, Hoo, as do I. I am disappointed to see that some of those who seem to have legitimate concerns voiced them here in a rather obnoxious fashion rather than taking them up directly in our IRC channel. Unfortunately a number of our people replied in kind, and the end result is, as they say, like wrestling with a pig. Didn't look too good for either of us.

I hope you don't perceive the hostility from a few folks who blew their tops as a general feeling, just as we as a whole do not assume as such from the members of your alliance who did so.

[Bodvar Jarl]

Certain Paradoxians needs a bit of humility and courtesy befitting a Knight of the Order beaten into them.

Certain non-Paradoxians are uninformed or deliberately malicious, but that's not something that is going to change.

That being said, we do need to clean and polish our armor and weaponry, because it does not shine when soaked in the blood of innocents and stained by the dirt from the battlefield.

[Khyber]

To be fair, Nemesis does not have a unified opinion on TOP as an alliance. As an alliance that not only supports individuals speaking their minds, but encourages it, you will find that there will be those who dislike TOP completely and those who think the world of you ... that goes for several alliances we are not allied to.

Understanding that, you should probably not make a blanket statement about Nemesis as a whole nor should you form an opinion based on a handful of members and their public comments.

As previously stated, Nemesis wanted white peace and LoSS did not. While we did not want the same thing, we support our allies and their opinions on the matter and would have rather had terms they were more comfortable with. I was there for the bulk of the last conversation between LoSS, TOP, and TSO and did not witness any strong arm tactics at the time. I will say, however, that I am a little shocked that terms were agreed upon so quickly when the two sides seemed very far apart as of last night when I had to depart.

Either way, I personally like BAPS and am glad they are no longer at war with us.

Edit: Punctuation.

We all get angry at times. No ones perfect, and it is clear we Paradoxians are no differernt.

Water under the bridge?

[Kevin Cash]

Certain Paradoxians needs a bit of humility and courtesy befitting a Knight of the Order beaten into them.

Certain non-Paradoxians are uninformed or deliberately malicious, but that's not something that is going to change.

That being said, we do need to clean and polish our armor and weaponry, because it does not shine when soaked in the blood of innocents and stained by the dirt from the battlefield.

even if you did strong arm loss into granting white peace, i do not think that is such a bad thing. loss should have known better than to demand reps from an innocent alliance, one who was only defending their allies, and whose history is near spotless, much more so than most of karma.

thats assuming loss even wanted reps, i am not privy to private conversations, but if they did i think it funny considering that switch they pulled right before the war, that they would further demand reps from the side they abandoned

[Talon]

Wow, is this still going? Who'd have thunk BAPs would make such a big splash in the political world

Sorry what was that? It hasn't been about BAPs for the last 200 posts or so? Really?

Oh well, I enjoyed the war anyway, props to any of those I fought especially those that had the special "switch SDI off" keys. Another week and I might have made it to 2 million casualties...next time Talon....there's always next time

Edited May 12, 2009 by Talon

[Bob]

We all get angry at times. No ones perfect, and it is clear we Paradoxians are no differernt.

Water under the bridge?

Asked to not reply.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Penlugue Solaris

[Zero-One]

A common perception in TOP. True or not, I'd advise against reading too much in to such things. Certain current events give us a clue as to the consequences for the excessive hubris that breeds statements such as these:

The power of the individual -- or indeed, a few individuals and a blackboard -- shouldn't be underestimated. Just because you think you're better than someone doesn't mean you're above their reach.

You obviously don't know Feanor at all if you take what he said seriously, and nothing more than sarcasm.

Congrats BAPS, you have fought well.

Edited May 12, 2009 by Irons82