The Phoenix Federation Announcement

[youwish959]

Respectfully Tyga, no he didn't.

As a regular member, I will tell you that our membership was outraged, and I'm assuming most other nations in Q were also upset at this decision, and we all ended up declaring.

[Tygaland]

Respectfully Tyga, no he didn't.

He did actually. The line has been TPF was always going to defend the NPO. His post stated that the leadership decided not to but then changed their mind once members expressed their outrage. This would support my belief that mhawk left when he realised TPF was not going to defend Pacifica and returned once they changed their mind. Which in turn supports my beliefs. You need to read the entire post he made rather than cherrypick.

What's that? That our leader made a decision that was the best for our alliance, and then joined as an NPO supporter?

Our leadership made a decision after finding out the rest of Q was not going to support NPO, and wasn't going to support us if we supported NPO.

What decision was that that was in the best interests of the alliance that then forced him to leave and re-create Elysium to fight by the NPO's side if not a decision not to defend Pacifica?

Edited April 29, 2009 by Tygaland

[Hydro]

Seeing as Valhalla, IRON, and TPF told me that their cancellations on NPO were due to their actions RE: TORN *before* the public reaction, I can tell you that mhawk indeed speaks the truth in regards to the motivations behind that decision. I cannot speak for the others, but I imagine some may have shared the sentiment even if not expressed to me at the time.

I guess I'll just have to reserve judgement for the time being, although what information I've come across publically doesn't seem to indicate that TPF or anyone else who broke their treaties with NPO was acting on the up and up. (TORN getting shafted is a different matter)

Edited April 29, 2009 by Hydro

[Darth Plainview]

Thank you, thank you, thank you, TPF I really wanted to find a target, again thank you.

[Vespassianus]

TPF has balls.

[ddog241]

so has TPF disbanded yet?

[erikz]

TPF has balls.

Thank you for really contributing to this discussion.

[Anthony]

so has TPF disbanded yet?

Na. From what I can tell they were shamed into fighting in the first place. Imagine if they lived up their historical roots of surrendering in the first week. They'd be mocked even more!

[Kilkenny]

I wasn't aware the other evidence was mysterious. Ask your fellow Continuum members about an MCXA-led meeting rallying everyone back to defending the NPO. I wonder if that now "didn't happen" too.

Tyga, I knew you from last war, when I was with Atarax, and had a lot of respect for you. But this endless nitpicking you are doing here has done nothing but destroy that respect I held. I had thought you were above this type of actions. In fact when Atarax disbanded I had seriously considered rolling into STA at the time. If not for a few discussions with Wingwhiper, E_C and someothers where I ended up back in TPF I would be in STA right now. I can't speak for other allinaces, or what went on in other channels, just what happens in TPF. You disect the happenings in our Gov and with MHawk over the space of several hours and days like a true hindsight warrior, when in reality the whole process happened over a 5 minute time frame with no background info. Literally, upon returning from training missions with his Army /OOC work OOC/ to find there was 5 minutes to make a decision. Bottom line up front, TPF is back on track and rolling. I fully back and support MHawk and will follow him to the gates of hell, /OOC and given that I have literally been to the gates of hell and back multiple times, that should say something OOC/

Any questions about tPF can be answered on the battle field.

[bobjohnny]

I see what TPF did thar. Won't declare on STA?

[Tygaland]

Tyga, I knew you from last war, when I was with Atarax, and had a lot of respect for you. But this endless nitpicking you are doing here has done nothing but destroy that respect I held. I had thought you were above this type of actions.

I'm never above finding out the truth. If that loses me your respect, so be it.

In fact when Atarax disbanded I had seriously considered rolling into STA at the time. If not for a few discussions with Wingwhiper, E_C and someothers where I ended up back in TPF I would be in STA right now. I can't speak for other allinaces, or what went on in other channels, just what happens in TPF. You disect the happenings in our Gov and with MHawk over the space of several hours and days like a true hindsight warrior, when in reality the whole process happened over a 5 minute time frame with no background info.

I'm only asking questions about what your members are posting. If your members are telling two conflicting stories, do not blame me for enquiring as to why.

Literally, upon returning from training missions with his Army /OOC work OOC/ to find there was 5 minutes to make a decision. Bottom line up front, TPF is back on track and rolling. I fully back and support MHawk and will follow him to the gates of hell, /OOC and given that I have literally been to the gates of hell and back multiple times, that should say something OOC/

Any questions about tPF can be answered on the battle field.

Why was there only 5 minutes to make a decision? A serious decision about backing your long-term allies or ditching them in their hour of need? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering you waited 24 hours to enter the war anyway. Would it not have been better to take some time and make such a decision? Maybe work out what was happening before making such a huge decision? Why is it that some of you claim you never considered leaving NPO to fend for themselves while others say mhawk left when it was decided not to defend the NPO only for him to return when that decision was changed?

Was there or was there not a meeting led by MCXA to rally the alliances that had cancelled on Pacifica back to honouring their remaining bloc treaties via the Continuum and One Vision? If there was, and I know there was, this implies that those alliances present had decided not to support the NPO prior to that meeting.

But there I go again, nitpicking and losing your respect again. Instead of this feeble attempt at shaming me into silence and character assassination, perhaps you can answer of few of those questions civilly for me.

[Fenix]

I'm never above finding out the truth.

Through all these last 20 pages or so, the truth has been pretty much laid out for your comprehension. I believe Vol Navy's post seemed to sum everything up pretty well. You can try to spin ur way out of seeing it, and try to mold it as you see fit, in the long run it won't matter. TPF will fight on with mhawk leading the way.

[JBone]

I'm never above finding out the truth. If that loses me your respect, so be it.

I'm only asking questions about what your members are posting. If your members are telling two conflicting stories, do not blame me for enquiring as to why.

Why was there only 5 minutes to make a decision? A serious decision about backing your long-term allies or ditching them in their hour of need? That doesn't make a whole lot of sense considering you waited 24 hours to enter the war anyway. Would it not have been better to take some time and make such a decision? Maybe work out what was happening before making such a huge decision? Why is it that some of you claim you never considered leaving NPO to fend for themselves while others say mhawk left when it was decided not to defend the NPO only for him to return when that decision was changed?

Was there or was there not a meeting led by MCXA to rally the alliances that had cancelled on Pacifica back to honouring their remaining bloc treaties via the Continuum and One Vision? If there was, and I know there was, this implies that those alliances present had decided not to support the NPO prior to that meeting.

But there I go again, nitpicking and losing your respect again. Instead of this feeble attempt at shaming me into silence and character assassination, perhaps you can answer of few of those questions civilly for me.

Just when I thought I was out... they pull me back in....

If truth was what you were actually seeking, there would not be near as much selective reading occurring. Asking the same question over and over, only being slightly satisfied when you get an answers nearer to your preconceived beleifs tells me I am not the only one here who can be accused of spinning. Biased agenda is biased.

Every response from a member of TPF has been from their personal perspective, including mine. The only person that has first hand, intimate knowledge of the events in question is mhawk. As he has repeatedly and consistantly given the same answers, which you refuse to accept.

There was no need to decide whether we were backing Pacifica, it was a foregone conclusion.

Five minutes was the time frame surrounding the questions, concerns and venting of membership over the details. During this time frame, mhawk succumbed to a rash impulse due to misinterpretation of sentiment, which was quickly rectified.

Twenty four hours was the time frame for us to finalize preparations for war. It would have been much more desirable to take some time, digest all the information and proceed as we had always planned, sans all the drama.

Due to the rapid chain of events, DoW, Peace Talks, TORN withdraw....some may have indeed questioned our planned course of action, once all the facts were in however, we were unified in our resolve. That took maybe an hour... We then acted accordingly.

Everyone has read the logs that Sponge so graciously provided from the clandestine meeting led by Fresh, I ask you, where in those logs do you see any member of TPF exhibiting a lack of resolve to support NPO?

Your statement on the implications of the meeting are false. The only thing this meeting implies is that the members of tC wanted to talk about the unfolding situation, and present a united front, which included standing by Pacifica as per the Mobius Accords.

As TPF has over 200 members, you could conceivable see 200 slightly different answers to the myriad of questions put forth in this thread based on individual perspective , I hazard to say only one is necessary and complete, mhawks.

Just because paragraph 11 of subsection 4 of so and so's post doesn't exactly mirror every other post by a TPF member does not make them invalid or any less correct....as seen from that individuals perspective. In war, emotions sometimes run high, of that we are all guilty.

With that, I humbly request that no one from TPF or her allies acknowledge discussion any longer, as this thread is supposed to be about our DoW on those evil dark side folks and their cold hearted leader.

[Buds The Man]

Ok Jbone ill bow out as i had lots of responses but alas they probably wouldnt do anygood.

good luck TPF doing what you can is all that can be asked.

o/ TPF

o/ ML

[Affluenza]

Everyone has read the logs that Sponge so graciously provided from the clandestine meeting led by Fresh, I ask you, where in those logs do you see any member of TPF exhibiting a lack of resolve to support NPO?

Your statement on the implications of the meeting are false. The only thing this meeting implies is that the members of tC wanted to talk about the unfolding situation, and present a united front, which included standing by Pacifica as per the Mobius Accords.

This makes no sense. The very fact that you guys had to even show a "united front" says it all tbh. :lol:

If everyone had agreed to support Pacifica and it was never a question...why did the meeting even have to take place? Why did the mood and tone seem like it was one of a group of people were trying to fix something they broke?

[bzelger]

With that, I humbly request that no one from TPF or her allies acknowledge discussion any longer, as this thread is supposed to be about our DoW on those evil dark side folks and their cold hearted leader.

You've got it wrong. We are the forces of righteousness and justice, you guys are the evil heartless types.

[Ivan Moldavi]

You've got it wrong. We are the forces of righteousness and justice, you guys are the evil heartless types.

They didn't declare on you.

I have never claimed to be "evil", it just comes naturally.

[Stumpy Jung Il]

Why are you people still arguing about this? Face it, you guys didnt plan to protect Pacifica. At least MCXA and Echelon manned up and admitted to the fact that they were wrong and changed their minds once realizing that. You are just looking dumb by saying, "It was all part of our plan!" You guys messed up, changed your mind, and then did the right thing. Am I missing anything?

[kevinkeegan]

Why are you people still arguing about this? Face it, you guys didnt plan to protect Pacifica. At least MCXA and Echelon manned up and admitted to the fact that they were wrong and changed their minds once realizing that. You are just looking dumb by saying, "It was all part of our plan!" You guys messed up, changed your mind, and then did the right thing. Am I missing anything?

I think that's the idea, though it's disappointing that it took them 17 pages to admit it.

[Chinatownbus]

Tyga, I knew you from last war, when I was with Atarax, and had a lot of respect for you. But this endless nitpicking you are doing here has done nothing but destroy that respect I held. I had thought you were above this type of actions. In fact when Atarax disbanded I had seriously considered rolling into STA at the time. If not for a few discussions with Wingwhiper, E_C and someothers where I ended up back in TPF I would be in STA right now. I can't speak for other allinaces, or what went on in other channels, just what happens in TPF. You disect the happenings in our Gov and with MHawk over the space of several hours and days like a true hindsight warrior, when in reality the whole process happened over a 5 minute time frame with no background info. Literally, upon returning from training missions with his Army /OOC work OOC/ to find there was 5 minutes to make a decision. Bottom line up front, TPF is back on track and rolling. I fully back and support MHawk and will follow him to the gates of hell, /OOC and given that I have literally been to the gates of hell and back multiple times, that should say something OOC/

Any questions about tPF can be answered on the battle field.

You sure you want to act like a tough guy when you've only got 23k left in your warchest?

[Felix von Agnu]

Why are you people still arguing about this? Face it, you guys didnt plan to protect Pacifica. At least MCXA and Echelon manned up and admitted to the fact that they were wrong and changed their minds once realizing that. You are just looking dumb by saying, "It was all part of our plan!" You guys messed up, changed your mind, and then did the right thing. Am I missing anything?

The truth.

[LORD RICB]

I haven't posted here until today but I must come to the defence of TPF ......WE ARE DOING WHAT IS RIGHT TRUE AND JUST ......I will never be ashamed of TPF and we are not going to be broken up ....you all have it very wrong .....we have proud,loyal members that will rather die than be taken into tyranny that this is all about ....KARMA wants to take out alliances that it doesn't agree with well ...let them keep coming the TPF will be waiting.

[tamerlane]

Guess ML really needed the support considering they are getting thrashed as badly, if not worse, than you guys are.

[New Frontier]

Guess ML really needed the support considering they are getting thrashed as badly, if not worse, than you guys are.

That hardly reflects poorly on the alliance. Molon Labe is a war machine, and against an average alliance, I have no doubt they would clean up.

But when you mess with the Force, you don't stand a chance.

[tamerlane]

That hardly reflects poorly on the alliance. Molon Labe is a war machine, and against an average alliance, I have no doubt they would clean up.

But when you mess with the Force, you don't stand a chance.

Oh no doubt ML is great at war. THey certainly have earned my respect in their performance. I was just reflecting on the hopelessness of this move.

Edited April 29, 2009 by tamerlane