When backed to the wall.

[Archmage]

The past few days The Phoenix Federation has raided the Crimson Empire, at will. I have spent that time doing what I can to defend my alliance. Attacking raiders and opening lines of communication with Burning Glory. In response I have been told by the nations that I counter-attacked what rules of combat I should follow and the corresponding threats on what would happen to me if I didn't.

As an avid raider myself, I find this funny. As no state of war exists between us I equate this as AA extortion. "Let us take a little, or we'll roll ya".

Now I'm not CE gov. and have no right to speak for my AA but I speak for myself in saying enough. As my actions are my own and not sanctioned by my alliance I hereby resign from the Crimson Empire and announce the forming of the Bevis and Butthead AA. We only live by one code "Are you threatening me?" I understand that this may not save the Crimson Empire from my course of action I just want it known that I'm acting on my own.

All TPF wars must cease versus CE or I will retaliate by any means I can.

I hope that this can be solved cleanly, if not it will be solved bloody.

Brb, going to drink coffee and eat sugar,

Archmage

[Rude Empire]

dude if you want to continue to help CE then stay with them. Don't go creating an alliance of your own and then start attacking nations that raid them without having a treaty involved. Otherwise your asking to get roll.

Edited January 20, 2009 by English Empire

[Archmage]

dude if you want to continue to help CE then stay with them. Don't go creating an alliance of your own and then start attacking nations that raid them without having a treaty involved. Otherwise your asking to get roll.

Getting rolled may be in my future anyway. I'd rather die on my feet then live on my knees.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Archmage

[JamesdaLeo]

or you could have simply talked to ur allies (the GDA) i will talk with BG about the raids on ur AA and see if we cant get this settled

Edited January 20, 2009 by JamesdaLeo

[mtndew]

I've been wondering if CE was ever going to grow some balls and fight back from TPFs tech raids?

5 week left in the round as you wanna resolve things diplomatically?

YAWN

[Bob]

I've been wondering if CE was ever going to grow some balls and fight back from TPFs tech raids?

5 week left in the round as you wanna resolve things diplomatically?

YAWN

I'd be more wondering why TPF has been raiding CE who has a good number of allies.

[youwish959]

I'd be more wondering why TPF has been raiding CE who has a good number of allies.

I'd be more wondering why if they have so many allies, why they aren't responding in kind.

[Azaghul]

1) When people declare war on me, they shouldn't be surprised if I immediately attack back if I'm on, rather than just wait to see what they do. CMs are best before an enemy launches attacks because it destroys tech and infra which helps their attack and troop limits, and while their troops are all deployed and they are busy attacking you is often the best time to hit back on the ground. How was I supposed to know his intent?

2) War is war. Don't expect me to just sit back and let someone get a raid on me or one of my alliance mates without full retaliation. If you play with fire expect to get burned. If BG had wanted to resolve it all diplomatically, he should have sent a message rather than declaring war and launching GAs.

3) Raiding Crimson will likely result in your nation getting blitzed and you waking up with a lot less infra and dozens of attacks in your inbox. Don't want to risk that? Don't raid us.

4) I will peace out any nation after a day (or quad) of attacks that has peaced out the person they are raiding. Any attacks on me I will peace out assuming that I have gotten attacks in for the day if they have attacked me that day. I don't want to drag out wars unnecessarily but nor will I allow people free attacks on me or my alliance mates.

5) Archmage

Edited January 20, 2009 by Azaghul

[Bob]

I'd be more wondering why if they have so many allies, why they aren't responding in kind.

I know this one.

babyjesus is lazy.

[Archmage]

5 week left in the round as you wanna resolve things diplomatically?

I will always seek to resolve things diplomatically,

Archmage

No prob. Azaghul, you have my......na, I played that one out too many times already.

[daddyAGW]

Azaghul, I couldn't agree more.

I'm trying to figure out why Alliances are so wrapped in treaties rather than wars. Within another post, arcane made a valid point on how boring CE has become. I can understand where friendships exist thus the lack of willingness to declare on each other. Perhaps even protect each other. If something isn't done then wars and excitement to some will be few and far between. The bigger the Alliances get the less they are willing to risk, and thus 'action' takes place in mere raids. I have found that I strongly prefer Alliance wars more fun rather than individual tech raids.

[Demonic]

i view the tournament edition of CN as a game where i won't blink a eye before declaring or fighting a war, screw diplomacy and say hello to a hail of bullets

[Archmage]

Azaghul, I couldn't agree more.

I'm trying to figure out why Alliances are so wrapped in treaties rather than wars. Within another post, arcane made a valid point on how boring CE has become. I can understand where friendships exist thus the lack of willingness to declare on each other. Perhaps even protect each other. If something isn't done then wars and excitement to some will be few and far between. The bigger the Alliances get the less they are willing to risk, and thus 'action' takes place in mere raids. I have found that I strongly prefer Alliance wars more fun rather than individual tech raids.

Why I chose to do this on my own. I just had a TPF nation attack me just a hour ago (expected) and he still tried to dictate the rules of battle to me and threaten me with ZI if I didn't comply.

First: If I have any infra past tomorrow I'll be shocked. So quit threaten something that I have already accepted.

Second: Without bite behind my words I can only ask that the raids be stopped. I had no way of answering a response of no, now I do.

Third: I accept the consequences of my actions and aggressors will feel the consequences of there's as long as I'm not in bill lock.

[daddyAGW]

Why I chose to do this on my own. I just had a TPF nation attack me just a hour ago (expected) and he still tried to dictate the rules of battle to me and threaten me with ZI if I didn't comply.

First: If I have any infra past tomorrow I'll be shocked. So quit threaten something that I have already accepted.

Second: Without bite behind my words I can only ask that the raids be stopped. I had no way of answering a response of no, now I do.

Third: I accept the consequences of my actions and aggressors will feel the consequences of there's as long as I'm not in bill lock.

Just curious and still learning the game...

Does CE have any alliance/treaties? Do the treaties not get initialized even if there are numerous raids allowed as long as a DOW isn't proclaimed?

[Burning Glory]

The past few days The Phoenix Federation has raided the Crimson Empire, at will. I have spent that time doing what I can to defend my alliance. Attacking raiders and opening lines of communication with Burning Glory. In response I have been told by the nations that I counter-attacked what rules of combat I should follow and the corresponding threats on what would happen to me if I didn't.

As an avid raider myself, I find this funny. As no state of war exists between us I equate this as AA extortion. "Let us take a little, or we'll roll ya".

Now I'm not CE gov. and have no right to speak for my AA but I speak for myself in saying enough. As my actions are my own and not sanctioned by my alliance I hereby resign from the Crimson Empire and announce the forming of the Bevis and Butthead AA. We only live by one code "Are you threatening me?" I understand that this may not save the Crimson Empire from my course of action I just want it known that I'm acting on my own.

All TPF wars must cease versus CE or I will retaliate by any means I can.

I hope that this can be solved cleanly, if not it will be solved bloody.

Brb, going to drink coffee and eat sugar,

Archmage

Arch you have not been backed into a wall, we have had a few pms back and forth and you know where i stand on the raids as well as i you. You posted here for public support but all you did was bring CE's dirty work out inthe open.

1st. Yes a few TPF nations have raided CE, but so have many others including LPE, MHA, CDT, MASH, UW, UN. But you choose to attack TPF back and no other Alliance for the raids.

2nd. However CE has raided TPF and i don't mean a defensive raid. So when we defend other CE nations attack us calling it a raid, so i send others over to raid the nations raiding us.

And its ok for CE to raid TPF and others including AZTEC, FARK, BW, Orbit Black, Asian Tigers, Otan, Viridia, X and others.....But its bad for you guys to get raided back. Please

But lets go back a bit further than this like about 3 weeks into the round;

TPF is a 22 nation AA, CE is a 130 nation AA.

I as leader of TPF decide that I would like us to be a bit bigger and start to looK through the list of AA's.

I see where a lot of the lower number nations are being raided heavily by all of the bigger AA's, and many of the 10 to 15 member AA's are all or mostly all in anarchy.

I decide to look at the AA's doing the raiding and I Pull up a lot of CE nations as well as others.

So I decide to send pm's to the AA's and members that are in Anarchy and/or being raided to join TPF for protection and help. This was early in the day and i log off.

The next day I log on after work to find that the 130 nation CE had attacked my 22 nation TPF, 3 to 1 and rolled us. We had like 17 or 18 of our nations in anarchy.

You had done a mass raid on my alliance and used an excuse of i tried to get your favorite person or some one of that nature to join TPF, who I had never heard of and was clueless as to whom you were refering to.

So after 2 days of raiding us you guys decide to peace us out through convo's via IRC, BUT WAIT.... Not before you get one last day of raiding in. After this the peace offers start

to come in, yet there are several members of your AA that don't want peace they want to keep raiding, I mean after all TPF was crippled and not much we could do about it.

So then phase 2 comes in I find out that the only reason CE peaces us out is because Judgement forms and CE needs to stock up as they will soon be attacking MI.

It took one of my friends Wartothedeath however to get the rest of the CE nations off TPF, as after our convo's they peaced us out.

Funny how the very treaty pact judgment attacked MI for the very same reason CE was doing to TPF and many other small AA's. Very ironic!

The rest of judgement seem to be in there for the right reason and yet there was CE who after what they did to us, some how just seemed wrong.

Now as to the reason They attacked and rolled us, I found out later that one of my letters had mistakingly been pm'd to this guy they were talking about.

The letter although not word for word varbadem said something like this;

I'm the leader of TPF and I see that you are in anarchy and most if not all of your members are in anarchy, and being raided.

Please consider joining TPF for protection and freedom.

They admitted that they realized it was a mistake, as he was not in anarchy nor was any of the AA in anarchy, or being raided.

Very hournable CE, to know that you blitzed attacked a 22 nation AA with 3 to 1 from a 130 member AA and all over a pm that you knew didn't belong to you.

So now that you have raided us and we have in return raided you back and this has gone on for days now, I attack one of your members for attacking one of mine who was defending against one of yours who raided us, then you post this hoping for support. I don't know what to think about you.

CE you have created the very TPF that you now complain about, and i'm telling you now I will dump my nation as will any other TPF member

to bring this one nation down that i attacked, if you want in then this is your choice, and you will also go down with us.

However TPF will still stand strong!

EDIT* This is not a war YET, but it is personal.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Burning Glory

[Bob]

You tried to recruit Archon, whose their God.

[Burning Glory]

You tried to recruit Archon, whose their God.

LOL, that may have been the guy PS i'm not sure....But they did try to make it out like he was a god and off limits to any nation.

As i said I didn't even know he got the pm, the only thing I came up with is he must of been one of the nations raiding this AA I sent the

PM's to and as i sent them he accidently got one of the pm's.

But a far far reason to roll the whole AA, when clearly it was a mistake and if anything I should of been attacked.....And i wasn't.

I was howerer fighting a CE member that had raided TPF though, maybe thats why, IDK.

BG.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Burning Glory

[Sandwich Controversy]

Aligned nations are off limits for recruitment, especially that one. Archon is a god, no two ways about it.

I remember asking you (repeatedly, you're the worst person on the face of the planet to negotiate with) what would have happened if we just attacked you, and you said TPF would defend you. HMMMM!

Edited January 20, 2009 by Sandwich Controversy

[Burning Glory]

Aligned nations are off limits for recruitment, especially that one. Archon is a god, no two ways about it.

I remember asking you (repeatedly, you're the worst person on the face of the planet to negotiate with) what would have happened if we just attacked you, and you said TPF would defend you. HMMMM!

As you said you knew the pm wasn't for him, but he was your god and this was excuse enough to attack.

I didn't try to recruit any CE members, and as i said before even if i had this is NO excuse to attack us or for that matter ROLL the whole AA even if some members would of tried to

protect me. Yet none of your members even attacked me so hmmm Guess its because at that time i was the strongest of my nations and had more planes and Cm's than any of you.

Also I was the one negotiating, all you wanted was for us to surrender and post an apology on the fourms stating i was wrong and that your attacks were justified.....Which I would not do

but only agree to a complete peace out which you finally agree to, but as i said only to get raided one more day.

Look I'm not going to go back ad forth on this, the facts are what I've posted.....This happened and i haven't forgotten about it.

As i said this is not between anyone but TPF and CE...This is personal and where we go from here depends on you guys.

I feel I am justified in extracting our tech back especially since you have again raided us and after all you guys don't mind taking it from everyone else.

BG.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Burning Glory

[Archmage]

1st. Yes a few TPF nations have raided CE, but so have many others including LPE, MHA, CDT, MASH, UW, UN. But you choose to attack TPF back and no other Alliance for the raids.

Sorry man, I'm just one guy who wasn't even in gov. I could only do what I can and TPF was the first war brought to my attention.

2nd. However CE has raided TPF and i don't mean a defensive raid. So when we defend other CE nations attack us calling it a raid, so i send others over to raid the nations raiding us.

I had to read this a few times and I think I got it, so you attack the raiders just as I have. I don't see anything wrong there.

And its ok for CE to raid TPF and others including AZTEC, FARK, BW, Orbit Black, Asian Tigers, Otan, Viridia, X and others.....But its bad for you guys to get raided back. Please

Ding, Ding, Ding, the point arises.

I think anyone (CE, TPF and whoever) who raids deserves what retaliation that's due. This retaliation is decided by the VICTOM of the raid, not the aggressor. The course of action that I have taken isn't because TPF raided CE, it's because every time I attacked a raider I got a PM telling me that I better not attack again, or I'd better not use my aircraft, or something along those lines or I'd get ZI'ed. Seeing that talking with you was solving singular raids but it wasn't stopping TPF as a whole from raiding us. So I came up with this plan.

But lets go back a bit further than this like about 3 weeks into the round....

I wasn't in CE in week 3, I started in MI. So while your complaint may justify your attitude to CE it bears little weight to me. If you hade a problem with CE then why didn't you post a DoW on them.

So now that you have raided us and we have in return raided you back and this has gone on for days now, I attack one of your members for attacking one of mine who was defending against one of yours who raided us, then you post this hoping for support. I don't know what to think about you.

I posted here to make clear that this is MY actions and MY responsibility. (but the support is nice) and I found it a fitting way for me to say Hello planet bob, here I am. (OOC: Never really played on the big boards)

[Commander Benji]

This whole thread could be fixed in four simple words.

Welcome to the Tournament.

[Owned-You]

You've got to do what you've got to do. I don't think this venture will be successful for you, however it's your prerogative so more power to you.

[Archmage]

You've got to do what you've got to do. I don't think this venture will be successful for you, however it's your prerogative so more power to you.

That depends, my good sir, on how you define success.

[SirWilliam]

Burning Glory, it sure didn't take all that long for you to come out with it and admit that your actions and the actions of your alliance in constantly raiding CE nations is personal (seeing as how CE stomped you guys earlier in the round for attempting to recruit our dear Archon), and are not merely isolated raids. It's just a bit of a bummer that you couldn't have sought your revenge when CE was still active and actively playing. Oh well though, I'm not too surprised.

[Burning Glory]

Sorry man, I'm just one guy who wasn't even in gov. I could only do what I can and TPF was the first war brought to my attention.

I had to read this a few times and I think I got it, so you attack the raiders just as I have. I don't see anything wrong there.

Ding, Ding, Ding, the point arises.

I think anyone (CE, TPF and whoever) who raids deserves what retaliation that's due. This retaliation is decided by the VICTOM of the raid, not the aggressor. The course of action that I have taken isn't because TPF raided CE, it's because every time I attacked a raider I got a PM telling me that I better not attack again, or I'd better not use my aircraft, or something along those lines or I'd get ZI'ed. Seeing that talking with you was solving singular raids but it wasn't stopping TPF as a whole from raiding us. So I came up with this plan.

I wasn't in CE in week 3, I started in MI. So while your complaint may justify your attitude to CE it bears little weight to me. If you hade a problem with CE then why didn't you post a DoW on them.

I posted here to make clear that this is MY actions and MY responsibility. (but the support is nice) and I found it a fitting way for me to say Hello planet bob, here I am. (OOC: Never really played on the big boards)

Well it appears that you got my point, and I will say this.....You have never been attacked back by any TPF nation for your defense of CE, even though I had several members willing to

eat a nuke and give you one. I said no, I have no problem a defense.

But the nation I DOW'd attacked a nation of mine defending against CE's raid on us.....its a Little more complicated than this but thats the end result.

As far as pm's from TPF members telling you what or how to defend.....Look around all raiders and non raiders have messages in their bio's of how not to raid or how not to defend back.

Its just part of the game and you can't take it personal, when like 80% plus nations do it.

BG.