Tahsir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 What about all the infra and power he would get from the acquiring of Uberstein. Or in CNRP does a nation simply vanish off the face of the earth with everything it owned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 What about all the infra and power he would get from the acquiring of Uberstein. Or in CNRP does a nation simply vanish off the face of the earth with everything it owned? That went down as a partial merger, wherein all preexisting buildings were transfered, and a large portion of Ubersteinian military was handed over to Nordland, but by no means all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Seb Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think that would be a hideous precedent. Besides, Uberstein chose to quit, and there has never been the gifting of infrastructure or tech to conquering or absorbing nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think that would be a hideous precedent. Besides, Uberstein chose to quit, and there has never been the gifting of infrastructure or tech to conquering or absorbing nations. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 What about all the infra and power he would get from the acquiring of Uberstein. Or in CNRP does a nation simply vanish off the face of the earth with everything it owned? It has before now. Else it would get to cluttered and complicated. I am against nations that quit doing more than a IC giving of land to an ally. No military, tech or infra should be counted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) cody: To deny the fact that infra is there and Nordland occupies it means that any nation trading with another nation for Non-IG materials is now void. Basically the RP would be a carbon copy of the game. Without the ability to acquire more in CNRP through RP what is the point of RPing anything besides "I bought 5 infra today" LeVentNoir: I can understand that 100% of uberstein cant be given to Nordland, but simply vanishing ehhh.... Edited January 3, 2009 by Tahsir Re Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Terra Di Agea Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think that would be a hideous precedent. Besides, Uberstein chose to quit, and there has never been the gifting of infrastructure or tech to conquering or absorbing nations. This. I don't know, that's what he's been telling me over and over, I just re-say it, but I won't fight for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 What about all the infra and power he would get from the acquiring of Uberstein. Or in CNRP does a nation simply vanish off the face of the earth with everything it owned? I don't see Martens using anything more than the RP infra (not IG infra) and troop numbers that are within IG stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
applesauce59 Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 We also need to look at the fact cybernation’s is the game and CNRP is just an expanded point on the game. Admin created and CN and CNRP just came with it. IG itself is really the basic framework for CNRP. Everything must take into account IG because it’s the core of the game. We of course can expand on it and allow for a more colorful game which is the point of it being expanded yet overall we must not cut away from IG. Think of CN as a deck of cards. The cards are the framework. Alone they can get kinda of boring. So we expand on those cards and play poker, blackjack, and many other times of games. Now do the cards change? No they typically don't. The framework is still there yet we just used it in a different manner to receive fun. Now we can put this back into the issue. By Kaiser not following his in game stats he fails to meet the initial framework of CN. Now you can say oh well we our just changing part of it. Yet when you change the framework than it is acceptable to change any framework of it which of course bad. So really we should be following our in game stats to begin with. Now we can expand this but not totally. Things like sharing tech have the route to our current framework but we have expanded the game. Yet when you use stats with no basis on the current framework than its not the same stats and thus not the same game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 cody: To deny the fact that infra is there and Nordland occupies it means that any nation trading with another nation for Non-IG materials is now void.Basically the RP would be a carbon copy of the game. Without the ability to acquire more in CNRP through RP what is the point of RPing anything besides "I bought 5 infra today" LeVentNoir: I can understand that 100% of uberstein cant be given to Nordland, but simply vanishing ehhh.... Well if you had been around for longer, you would have seen a 84k nation, the russian empire be purged from Antarctica, and there was nothing left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sumeragi Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Well if you had been around for longer, you would have seen a 84k nation, the russian empire be purged from Antarctica, and there was nothing left. He never got around RPing it. Everything in Antartica was OOC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 He never got around RPing it. Everything in Antartica was OOC Ok then, how about when his highly detailed (russian placed) russian empire was wiped with nothing left as a purge. It was an example that nations can go form CNRP and nothing is left behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirreille Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Anyway, the main problem I'm seeing in CNRP: Everyone thinks they're the good old RL US, which has never fought against a technologically equal opponent since WW2. They all think they can just bomb the other side to nothing with millions of missiles before sending in the troops.It isn't like that. No modern nation can bomb as much as what happened in the Oceanic War in Mindanao ALONE without being on a total war economy, and the infinite number of bombs and missiles being launched is disturbing to say the least. People accused me of having impossible numbers of cruise missiles, but they never look at their own arsenal. It's hypocrisy at its worst. This is probably the most sensible thing I have seen you say regarding RP in, well, maybe ever. Not only do they do this, they do it multiple times in rapid succession in war after war. They do this for manpower too, even when they accept 100k losses in highly trained troops. Naboo is currently RPing he has all of IW's fleet and air units I believe, so he has double what his nations's stats would allow him to have. That does seem a bit unfair as well. it is the same thing Nordland is doing with Uberstein's stuff. Look, Marten's came back with the same leader(eventually), nation, political structure,etc.; saying he isn't a contiuation of Deutschland seems ludicrous. In regards to his allowed infra/tech; well, the whole point of the database I thought was to allow people to RP at their previous strongest level if they got smashed in an in-game war. Marten's is just already at that point. I had no problem with him, or Mudd, or anybody else for that matter doing that, as it can make RP awkward if a large nations suddenly ends up being crushed in game. Some would rP that, but many would not like it and as I said I have no problem with it. I remember Marten's being around 7-8k infra and 2400+ tech myself since I looked at his nation before his first war(the one with LVN, Slayer99. etc.).The majority of the people were willing to allow this when the issue first came up. Obviously now some people want to re-visit it. Fine, but let's make it a public OOC vote, and can we allow the majority rule to be accepted rather then this constant bickering? Or go and ask the Mods to make a decision, though I think they would prefer we settle this ourselves if at all possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sargun II Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 On the matter of Martens: he RP'd saving his technology, giving it to Uberstein, and then Uberstein gave it back to him later. Tech problem solved. Infra matter: 2000 should be fine, but remember he merged with Poland anyway. Any questions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mirrele, this is not a large nation getting crushed, it has the added complication of he left CNRP, and came back, and didn't play to his IG stats when he rejoint. I am of the opinion the database should only benifit you if you keeping RPing, if you leave CNRP, you have to play with the stats you have when you rejoin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cody Seb Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 cody: To deny the fact that infra is there and Nordland occupies it means that any nation trading with another nation for Non-IG materials is now void. It's an attempt to make and exploit a loophole in my opinion. He quit, there was no merge only the gifting of his lands. It has always been that way, why should we make yet another exemption and bonus for one who already has so many, and who is doing quite well anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 I totally am in agreement with LVN here. Martens is not a child, he made decisions and he needs to live with those decisions. If he left the CN RP he needs to play to what he had when he got back not make up something totally new and better cause he claims to be a "victim". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerreyRough Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 A poll should be made. Oh, and I agree with LVN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Were Kaiser Marten's stats what they are now when he re-entered CNRP, or have they changed through someone attacking him? I can understand if he left completely then came back claiming his old nation to have his stats reset to IG levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerreyRough Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 (edited) I believe he left, got knocked down [attacked/stat reduce], and then re-entered into CN-RP. If he had those stats when he re-entered, then we would not be arguing. Edited January 3, 2009 by JerreyRough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahsir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 So really the issue is he wants his old IG stats back after an attack, which is supported by the RP stat tables, but since he left before people want to say he doesn't get to use the old stat table record of what is strenght used to be? In effect turning loads of his RP moot. I think a middle ground needs to be reached here, and I think sumeragi's estimation at what the infra/tech should be was a good one then. And before anyone says a low infra nation can't take on multiple larger infra ones. WW2 germany didn't have super massive infra and was getting victories against bigger nations. It took years for that superior infra to grind them back. Early lightning victories are possible. If Nordland gets stuck in a long war, alone, they would be doomed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 No. LeVentNoir is correct; he left and got rolled. What gives him the right to play up to his old stats instead of starting out like everybody else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeVentNoir Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 Here is how it happened. KM suffered a massive IC beatdown, at the same time as a Massive IG beatdown. He left RP, then came back after some more IG losses. He then thinks he can RP in his prime, and keep all the RP history that was wiped out when he left CNRP. He is cheating, and people are taking a stand. I agree that the losses he has taken SINCE he rejoint should not be incurred, so I would put him at a 2k infra 500 tech nation. (the 14k nation he had when he rejoined) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadowsage Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 That would be acceptable. If you leave, you lose the 'Insurance Policy' that is the Database. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Triyun Posted January 3, 2009 Report Share Posted January 3, 2009 So really the issue is he wants his old IG stats back after an attack, which is supported by the RP stat tables, but since he left before people want to say he doesn't get to use the old stat table record of what is strenght used to be?In effect turning loads of his RP moot. I think a middle ground needs to be reached here, and I think sumeragi's estimation at what the infra/tech should be was a good one then. And before anyone says a low infra nation can't take on multiple larger infra ones. WW2 germany didn't have super massive infra and was getting victories against bigger nations. It took years for that superior infra to grind them back. Early lightning victories are possible. If Nordland gets stuck in a long war, alone, they would be doomed. He was never ever in position of the stat he has on the stat table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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