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New Wonders


Compstomper
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With the new wonders coming out what order would you recommend I buy my next wonders in? I don't suspect I will need to change my current order but just double checking.

I currently have the following wonders: Disaster Relief Agency, Great Monument, Great University, Great Temple, Internet, Interstate System, National Research Lab, Social Security System, Stock Market, Strategic Defense Initiative, and Universal Health Care.

Edited by Compstomper
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yes, they are pretty specialized, which is imho good since different kinds of nations will have different priorities now.

However, the Mining Consortium is imho too weak for its price, even in the best case a nation will only make +$3 (if it has all 3 resources) and that equals only +1.5happiness = it will never pay for its costs. Reduce price to 25M, add lead to these resources and double the bonus to +$2. For nations with the 8BG combo it is then surely worth it to get that soon.

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The WRC looks pretty nice as a third military wonder, after the MP and SDI. Being able to buy 2 nukes a day is priceless in long wars.

If you're out of nukes and your opponent has an SDI, the WRC will increase your chance of a successful nuking to 1 - (0,6^2) = 0,64. Not bad.

The ADP can be pretty useful too. Even if you don't have 10k+ land, it offers nicely balanced military and economical benefits. More land, more citizens (bigger army) and a tiny bit more income. I'd gain roughly 2000 citizens from it. EDIT: I'm probably buying it next.

Edited by Viluin
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yes, they are pretty specialized, which is imho good since different kinds of nations will have different priorities now.

However, the Mining Consortium is imho too weak for its price, even in the best case a nation will only make +$3 (if it has all 3 resources) and that equals only +1.5happiness = it will never pay for its costs. Reduce price to 25M, add lead to these resources and double the bonus to +$2. For nations with the 8BG combo it is then surely worth it to get that soon.

That was the same thing I thought when I scrolled through the new wonders. The income bonus ought to be somewhere between +2$ and +3$ per resource.

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QUOTE ((DAC)Syzygy @ May 22 2008, 03:39 PM)

yes, they are pretty specialized, which is imho good since different kinds of nations will have different priorities now.

However, the Mining Consortium is imho too weak for its price, even in the best case a nation will only make +$3 (if it has all 3 resources) and that equals only +1.5happiness = it will never pay for its costs. Reduce price to 25M, add lead to these resources and double the bonus to +$2. For nations with the 8BG combo it is then surely worth it to get that soon.

That was the same thing I thought when I scrolled through the new wonders. The income bonus ought to be somewhere between +2$ and +3$ per resource.

Apparently Admin agrees. :)

Mining Industry Consortium - $25,000,000 - Increases population income by $2.00 for the resources oil, lead, coal, uranium that your nation has access to. Requires 5,000 infrastructure, 3,000 land purchased, 1,000 technology.
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The mining wonder is pretty weak, but I dont think we need to put a blanket value on it. I think it shouldnt just be related to those resources that hurt environment, it should relate to ALL minable resources... gold, lead, coal, iron, gems, aluminum, marble, silver, and uranium (maybe oil).

I would recommend the following formula:

Minable resources = M

Happiness = sqrt(M)*2

`

This would allow you to mine more resources if you have them, allowing for a maximum of +6 happiness (~6.3 w/ oil).

Thoughts?

Edited by Sir Wellington
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right now you get 0.2 citizens per landmile, with that wonder you get additional 0.3 so you get finally 0.5 citizens per landmile. if you have a very high land/infra ratio, this wonder may be better (and cheaper) than a +4 or +5 happiness wonder.

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The mining wonder is pretty weak, but I dont think we need to put a blanket value on it. I think it shouldnt just be related to those resources that hurt environment, it should relate to ALL minable resources... gold, lead, coal, iron, gems, aluminum, marble, silver, and uranium (maybe oil).

I would recommend the following formula:

Minable resources = M

Happiness = sqrt(M)*2

`

This would allow you to mine more resources if you have them, allowing for a maximum of +6 happiness (~6.3 w/ oil).

Thoughts?

I agree, if the wonder is doing stuff for MINING, then it should affect all the minable resources. Thoughts?

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The mining wonder is pretty weak, but I dont think we need to put a blanket value on it. I think it shouldnt just be related to those resources that hurt environment, it should relate to ALL minable resources... gold, lead, coal, iron, gems, aluminum, marble, silver, and uranium (maybe oil).

I would recommend the following formula:

Minable resources = M

Happiness = sqrt(M)*2

`

This would allow you to mine more resources if you have them, allowing for a maximum of +6 happiness (~6.3 w/ oil).

Thoughts?

iron, alu, marble are already top-resources. I would not boost them even more.

even gems/silver are pretty good incomeboosters, especially for young nations most likely preferrable over uran.

Imho the current solution is not that bad.

3BG users who already have the best setup would not want that wonder, or buy it as last wonder, since they would get only +$2 income (from uran).

5BG users would want it, since they have coal, oil, uran, so they would get +$6, which equals +3happiness. Even that is lower then most other wonders, so it would be one of the last wonders to buy. But on the other hand, its also cheaper.

8BG users would surely want it, since they have all of these resources and would get +$8 for a real good price.

Edited by (DAC)Syzygy
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right now you get 0.2 citizens per landmile, with that wonder you get additional 0.3 so you get finally 0.5 citizens per landmile. if you have a very high land/infra ratio, this wonder may be better (and cheaper) than a +4 or +5 happiness wonder.

Hrmm... Right now (lacking Sugar/Spices), it seems the citizen boost from the Wonder is actually worth less then 1 Happiness point for me (if my math is correct).

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I agree, if the wonder is doing stuff for MINING, then it should affect all the minable resources. Thoughts?

Eh, most of the "minable" resources are pretty good as is. Admin is trying to balance out the crap that those resources give you with environment now.

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iron, alu, marble are already top-resources. I would not boost them even more.

even gems/silver are pretty good incomeboosters, especially for young nations most likely preferrable over uran.

Imho the current solution is not that bad.

3BG users who already have the best setup would not want that wonder, or buy it as last wonder, since they would get only +$2 income (from uran).

5BG users would want it, since they have coal, oil, uran, so they would get +$6, which equals +3happiness. Even that is lower then most other wonders, so it would be one of the last wonders to buy. But on the other hand, its also cheaper.

8BG users would surely want it, since they have all of these resources and would get +$8 for a real good price.

I guess I fail to see why one would waste a wonder slot on 4 happiness? How does this help nations who have the 4 resources again???

Make it worth their while. If the purpose is to make those resources viable, make them 1.5 happiness EACH, thus giving them +6 happiness total if they go with those resources. Its better than anything out there.

I guess I fail to see why anyone would buy this over a SM, SSS, or any of the +5 wonders...

How I see it... heres a +4 wonder (only if you have crappy trades, if you have semi crappy trades... it is worse). I see this no reason why this is better than war memorial...

Get my point?

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Of the mining-related resources, Aluminum, Gems, Iron, Marble and Uranium are pretty good and don't really need a boost. That leaves Coal, Gold, Lead, Oil and Silver.

If those 5 each got a +2$ boost with the wonder, it's equal with the other +10$ wonders at five ten million less (purchase cost), but since it requires that you have specific resources (and not exactly the best resources), it's pretty balanced.

edit: I thought the price of the wonder was 30M, seems it's 25M.

Edited by Lord Brendan
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Eh, most of the "minable" resources are pretty good as is. Admin is trying to balance out the crap that those resources give you with environment now.

Perhaps a name change is in order. Instead of Mining Industry Consortium, make it an Energy Consortium. Coal, Uranium, and Oil all have obvious uses in generating energy. Lead is used in lead-acid batteries, as well as in high voltage power cables as sheathing material to prevent water diffusion into insulation. Nations with these resources could be net power-exporters, supplying those nations with lesser ability to generate power, thus increasing their income.

Same thing, just less question as to why only certain minerals are affected.

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Of the mining-related resources, Aluminum, Gems, Iron, Marble and Uranium are pretty good and don't really need a boost. That leaves Coal, Gold, Lead, Oil and Silver.

If those 5 each got a +2$ boost with the wonder, it's equal with the other +10$ wonders at five ten million less (purchase cost), but since it requires that you have specific resources (and not exactly the best resources), it's pretty balanced.

edit: I thought the price of the wonder was 30M, seems it's 25M.

Seems good.

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yes, they are pretty specialized, which is imho good since different kinds of nations will have different priorities now.

However, the Mining Consortium is imho too weak for its price, even in the best case a nation will only make +$3 (if it has all 3 resources) and that equals only +1.5happiness = it will never pay for its costs. Reduce price to 25M, add lead to these resources and double the bonus to +$2. For nations with the 8BG combo it is then surely worth it to get that soon.

I'd rather have had infra upkeep reductions on this than income. :(

New wonders are pretty sweet though, i like very much :)

Weapons Research Complex - $150,000,000 - Increases the technology bonus to damage from 0.01% to 0.02% per technology level, Increases the number of nukes that can be purchased per day to 2, hurts environment by +1, Increases the purchase costs of all military by 0.01% per technology level. Requires 8,500 infrastructure, 2000 technology, Research Wonder, Pentagon Wonder.

Shouldn't this be lowered to 8k? Saying this mostly because the 8k jump without the proper economical wonders isn't worthwhile really, so by choosing this wonder nations will be giving up an eco wonder to make up for their increased (from the jump) bills

Also what does Research Wonder mean? D:

Also on second thought MIC is pretty useless for everyone, including people who import all 4 of the env hurting resoruces, since 8 income <5 happiness (internet gt) and just as big as gm and nwm, plus it's worse than nrl, doesn't really compensate much

Edited by uaciaut
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I'd rather have had infra upkeep reductions on this than income. :(

New wonders are pretty sweet though, i like very much :)

Shouldn't this be lowered to 8k? Saying this mostly because the 8k jump without the proper economical wonders isn't worthwhile really, so by choosing this wonder nations will be giving up an eco wonder to make up for their increased (from the jump) bills

Also what does Research Wonder mean? D:

Also on second thought MIC is pretty useless for everyone, including people who import all 4 of the env hurting resoruces, since 8 income <5 happiness (internet gt) and just as big as gm and nwm, plus it's worse than nrl, doesn't really compensate much

I believe research wonder refers to the NRL...and also admin probably put 8500 so we couldnt just go up to 8000 and it would encourage the jump...

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Shouldn't this be lowered to 8k? Saying this mostly because the 8k jump without the proper economical wonders isn't worthwhile really, so by choosing this wonder nations will be giving up an eco wonder to make up for their increased (from the jump) bills

Also what does Research Wonder mean? D:

Also on second thought MIC is pretty useless for everyone, including people who import all 4 of the env hurting resoruces, since 8 income <5 happiness (internet gt) and just as big as gm and nwm, plus it's worse than nrl, doesn't really compensate much

First: If the requirement would be 8k, you would see people get 8k infra, then the wonder, then sell infra to get below the 7999 upkeep jump again to save costs. But it is intented that if you own this wonder and deal more damage, you also put more expensive own infra on the table yourself.

Second: For nations owning 4 of these resources its definitely worth it. Its 10M cheaper than most of the other wonders, and +$inc does not affected by Env (GRL and other penalties), while happiness is. So +$8 is better than +4hap. Even if they buy it very late, the main purpose of this wonder is to help such nations COMPARED to 3BG users wich already earn way more cash, so they would benefit less from that wonder.

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Second: For nations owning 4 of these resources its definitely worth it. Its 10M cheaper than most of the other wonders, and +$inc does not affected by Env (GRL and other penalties), while happiness is. So +$8 is better than +4hap. Even if they buy it very late, the main purpose of this wonder is to help such nations COMPARED to 3BG users wich already earn way more cash, so they would benefit less from that wonder.

National War Memorial - $27,000,000 - The war memorial allows your citizens to remember its fallen soldiers. This improvement is only available to nations that have lost over 50,000 soldiers during war throughout the life of your nation. Increases population happiness +4.

Stock Market - $30,000,000 - The stock market provides a boost to your economy. Increases citizen income +$10.00.

Wait wait, how is +8$ better than +4hap. You mean Environment affects happiness by percentage? (not sure what you mean with this one)

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